 Poster: A snowHead
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I promised a couple of boot reviews and here they are. Mainly interesting for the comparisons and I hope helpful.
Reference boots - Salomon 1080 on X Wave last
These are stalwarts of the boot box - adopted when I had to schlep around with my kids in their infancy. They have grown up now - 11 and 13 - but these slippers stayed on my feet for many years. I am an annoying 41-42 shoe size, and 25 shells tend to be agony across the bridge of my foot, while 26 shells have a two-finger void behind my heels in many shells. Plus I have frostbite damage and feet wrecked from years of being abused in climbing shoes and B2 boots. Salomon 1080s were an excellent boot - perfect last for me - 'last buckle' tightening - ie not need to crank them down in any way, a rubber zeppa for hard landings and icy corrugations, an apparently cheap liner but one which did not pack out at any time, 80 flex but quite a bit stiffer in the cold. Good shape toe box, good heel hold. Frankly a brilliant pair of boots, worn for years. Imprecise at times, and the flex prevented me from really grinding the edge in on ice, but since I am only 66kilos/140lbs they weren't crazy soft. In ten years of use, up to ten weeks a year, nothing broke, nothing wore out, and they are still sitting there ready to go. But I thought, after some coaching on ice, it would be a good idea to try some more up to date boots. I had some Falcon 9s in the cupboard, some Tecnica Diablo Fires, and some X waves. Nope, time to try something up to date.
Salomon X Pro 90s
I ran past the local bootery and they had some X Pro 90s on sale in 26 at a real knock down price - so without any thought I just assumed 'I am a Salomon 26' they'll do....' - which is just not like me at all. Usually I spend ages on gear ... this time no. And a HUGE mistake. Just rushed in, bought them, chucked them in the back of the car. Little did I know that Salomon had thrown the X Wave last in the bin, and gone a bit mental. The boots lived in their box in the back of the car, and came back from the Alps to the UK. The moment I did a shell check I realised that this boots were totally different from the X waves or even the weird (old Lange-narrow) Falcons. Nice and wide for wrecked toes, perfect over the bridge of my foot - but with the biggest heel pocket in the known universe. They were the length of a 27 shell inside, but with a BSL of a typical 26 shell - 305mm. For me, useless. And no way of returning them to the shop. Aargh. So I tried on some 25s in Ellis B - many thanks people - and they were completely wrong. Good length when in skiing stance, but agony over the bridge - and of course in the area where it's really difficult to stretch the boot. Not a shape which would match my foot, even with major work on the shell. And with custom footbeds in, even worse. So, friend Ant gained a free pair of boots. He loves their lightness (he has some Heads which seem to be made out of material from a black hole); the odd elongated, low shape fits his foot, and he a happy boy.
Atomic Hawk 110
So while in EB, I tried on some other boots. No Salomon shell worked at all - all had the deep heel pocket and over-tight bridge. Hawks looked good. High volume toebox, good space over the bridge, good heel hold. Top liner - SIDAS. The quality of the liner was one factor which pushed in this boot's favour. 25 too short inside, 26 a bit long but I thought I would size up not down. Bit of work to give 1-2mm extra width in the toe box, then they felt fine. Not slippers, nice and snug. 305 BSL so good for interchangeability between my different skis. First day out, good precision, but needed to crank up the top buckles. Excellent powerstrap. Great hold on ice, able to pressure the edge with a lot of precision. Facility to adjust forward lean meant that I could change the angle a couple of degrees, so day two cranked the boot to full forward lean. Amazing transformation of the boot - and very much for the better. Excellent consistency in flex, living up to the high reputation of the boot. Lethal on metal steps. The Salomon's have a serration between the front and rear pads - the plastic of the Atomics are just really slippery between the pads, and the boots slip all over the place when descending from lifts and onto the snow. This genuinely took a bit of getting used to. Really consistent on the snow though. And then....hot afternoon and the volume in the boots goes up and up and up. It's not like normal inner packing, it's as if the inner has let go. I crank up the buckles and get some control back. I have been taught to ski in slack boots as long-term training, so I am not a cranking-up merchant. But boy do I have to tighten these boots. I am shocked. Drat, new boots and they are misbehaving. That night, temps plummet, I dry the inners on the cooler rads in the chalet, and in the morning the liners are back to fitting and gripping. Weird. All is well until the temp gets up again, and then the same collapse of the materials of the inner. Next morning, all fine again. This is really frustrating. So I scratch my head and dig into the boot box. I put a 2mm rubber volume-reducing hard-rubber sole into the shell, and my tallest custom footbed into the boots. I move the top two ladder buckles over onto their last hole in the shell. They are back to being an excellent fit and a fine boot. And this time, even though we are April skiing, no problems when the temps go up, but I do need to crank down the buckles in the afternoon. Brand new boots, long fitting process, and these are not optimal boots. Drat.
Lange RX100
Meanwhile, in a fit of frustration over the Hawks, which I bought for 230 in EB, I spot some Lange 100mm last RX100s, virtually new on EBay, for 90gbp. Great that Lange started a few years ago to recognise that they needed LV and MV models, and models which had something other than the ultra narrow race last, with plastic impossible to work on. Well done them. I buy these and do a shell check. Fine, comfort rather than performance fit, but fine. Liner appears lower grade than the Hawks, but have a nice slippery bit at the back to ease the foot in. Nice wide powerstrap. BSL 306mm, but 1mm more than the Hawks and my normal Salomons will not upset forward pressure setting on the bindings. 100mm last they may be, but I need a blow on the inside of each boot to relieve pressure on the outside of the foot. Get these on the snow and WOOOAH we're off like a rocket....Weird. 100 flex but I really need to pressure these boots. Then there's a lot more control. Stacks of it in fact.Very consistent flex once I learn to push them hard, and the liner doesn't pack in any way. That night I compare the forward lean of the Lange's and the Atomics; the Lange's are way more upright - that couple of degrees more on the Atomics makes them a very different boot, shifting my c of g far further forward. The Lange's are not bad; it's just that they need a different approach to pressure and stance. I like them. A lot. Even though they bite me with the overlap every time I put them on, even when pulling the boot wide open. Oh well. With a volume reducer and the bigger custom footbeds they give a performance fit. But now I am interested in trying out a range of boots....
Tenica Cochise 110
Just back, and Andymb on SH has a pair of 2015 Cochise for sale - 50 gbp. Nice blue shells with orange clips. Cool. New liners. I looked at the reviews of these a while ago, and And I aim to start doing some ski-touring this season. 26 mondo - 310 BSL but I hope that's the special removable heel and toe pieces and not something affecting the internal length. When I read the reviews the materials seemed very good and the stiffness of the boot giving downhill boot performance but with facility for touring. Nice. I do a shell check and they are fine - about the same 15mm of the Langes. Nice clearance over the bridge of my foot - a lot of clearance in fact. Maybe a 25 in these would work too. Inners have a good finish - very cushioned tongue to guard against shin bang and slippery bit at the back to ease entry. I do a few more shell checks - 100mm last is way wider than the nominally 100mm Langes. I may need a blow on the RH boot but perhaps not...it's marginal. The Langes really needed a 2-3mm blow on each boot. I look on line and find that the Tecnica Mach 1s come in LV MV and High Volume models. Hmmm, might check those out at some point. The shell checks suggests that I might well be able to use a 25 in the 2015 Cochise. I have plenty of clearance in the all important bridge area in the 26s, a place which immediately causes problems if I move to a 25 in any other boot. So...not used on snow yet, may need a blow. But looking very promising. Report when I get on the snow with them.
Full Tilt B&E evolution 102 last
Always wanted to ski some Raichles or FTs, but they have been narrow narrow narrow. Bingo! Scan ebay and some of the wider evolution FTs on end of season sale at 200 gbp. In gross phlegm green and scab brown but what the hell. Flex 6 tongue but fine, I can change the flex with a range of tongues (rather than needing to change boots), they have adjustable forward lean and chanting (sorry, canting - but I do like the idea of forward chanting - see below) and better than that, it's recommended that you size UP from normal shoe size - so the 26s stand a chance of fitting well. So press that button. They arrive a couple of days later and yes, Bingo, a shell check and a quick fit - they are shorter than a usual 26 and wide enough in the 102 last to not need a blow. Excellent fit over the bridge of my foot - bit tight but that's good, it'll ease up as it wears in. The facility to adjust flex by changing tongues is a big plus, I think. Gross colours, and my partner is threatening to not ski with me. My son thinks they are cool. I'll go with him. Report when I get on the snow with them.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 2-05-17 13:10; edited 5 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You missed the review of the shipping container you need to keep all your boots and kit in 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@valais2, wrote "they have adjustable forward lean and chanting..."
that would be a Full Tilt boogie then !!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@rungsp, good point ... every cupboard in our Alpine hut is full of kit, which cascades out when you open them - but there's a good reason - we have a tradition of loads of families staying with us, who are on tight budgets, so we supply all the kit - softwear as well as hardware. We just buy stuff when there's a pile of ex hire or other stuff which comes up - this saves both time and money going to the hire shops. And there's climbing gear everywhere too, we try to remember to hide all the ice axes when kids other than ours arrive...for obvious reasons. The answer to 'how many pairs of boots are there in the place?'. Genuine answer is 'no idea...' but I do know that we have from mondo 14 to 31, with most in multiple makes, giving a chance of finding a decent boot for any shape foot. As for my own boots, I work on the basis that if I have paid 50 gbp for a pair of boots, I can have five pairs to ars" about with, experimenting with fit, before I reach the total of one new pair of boots - and it means we have plenty of boots around for visitors....
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sat 29-04-17 23:02; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@valais2, Your assessment of the Hawx 110 rings true with me.....but I don't get the downside, as I ski for 1 week a year, in Jan. I want something snug, comfortable, with decent control.....and I get that.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Old Fartbag, OF did you go down a size in the Hawks? What's your normal shoe size and what size hawks do you have? How would you describe your foot re wide narrow front, wide narrow heel etc?
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@valais2, My shoe size varies between a 9 and a 10. I have fairly wide feet with narrow ankles.
I went to JoJo and let him do his thing...he told me my right foot was a little longer and put me in a 27. They felt tight but comfortable. As a one week per year skier, I value a boot that is comfortable....if I get a good dose of performance thrown in, I'm very happy.
If I lived in the alps and skied most weeks, I might go for a more performance fit....but I'm 57, with back surgery, so my expectations are a little lower than a seasonaire.
I did have to move the upper latches onto the next notch...but I have scrawny shins and smallish calves.
Like you, I often skied in loose fitting boots...and did a fair bit of skiing with open boots, to improve my balance over the skis.
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OF - many thanks for the detail - so 1 size down and works well - this kind of insight is very useful to me and to others, and it's good to build up 'professional knowledge' of this kind, from direct experience.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Useful warning to me about Salomon boots. My Xwaves8 have done me proud and are so comfortable. Assumed that they would still be the way to go for someone with narrow feet hen it's time to change. Suspect they will do another year.
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@dan100, the x wave last was excellent, and designed by a guy who worked for years in profeet in London. I think that the hawk is a very similar-shaped boot, as is the current generation of tecnicas - Cochise (but is a mixed touring/downhill boot), Mach 1 etc. The x wave has been emulated by others since it was so successful, but bizarrely, adandoned by salomon. Note the sizing down by one with the hawk, which it seems is common to many people. Obviously do all checks - shell check, full fitting etc - but the hawk may be a first stop for you, also check out the Langes if you have narrow feet Rx series is excellent and some friends have gone to those when they have had to replace their x waves.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| valais2 wrote: |
| OF - many thanks for the detail - so 1 size down and works well - this kind of insight is very useful to me and to others, and it's good to build up 'professional knowledge' of this kind, from direct experience. |
I find shoe size such an inaccurate guide, that I'm loath to come to any conclusions on the Hawk....I also think that ski boots (from any brand) when fitted, often end up being a size down from normal shoe size. It's why I just put myself in experienced hands.....and shoe size never arose.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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OF entirely agree - weirdly there is a popular email supplier sur la continent which recommends on-screen to go one size UP from normal shoe size, which breaks your very sensible 'don't go by shoe size' as well as being contrary to what usually provides the best fit !!!!
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@valais2, great detailed reviews, thanks.
Must admit I've skied for over 30 years without realising how technical ski boots were. I guess I got lucky with my current Atomics. After a minor tweak to suit the wide front of my feet, they've always been comfortable and the skis go reliably where I want them to.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| valais2 wrote: |
| OF - many thanks for the detail - so 1 size down and works well - this kind of insight is very useful to me and to others, and it's good to build up 'professional knowledge' of this kind, from direct experience. |
I find shoe size such an inaccurate guide, that I'm loath to come to any conclusions on the Hawk....I also think that ski boots (from any brand) when fitted, often end up being a size down from normal shoe size. It's why I just put myself in experienced hands.....and shoe size never arose. |
I totally agree with the 'experienced hands' comment.
I love my new Hawx and even though the temps got up to +15 one day in our last trip, they fitted perfectly all day. I had the liners moulded and may be this prevents the packing down that valais2 experienced.
I am much more used to wearing snowboard boots and the Hawx felt almost as comfortable, but with excellent control and uniform pressure all around my foot.
I haven't cranked them past the std setting of 4deg yet, but definitely will now.
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FAQ
