My right foot is tilted inwards in my boots!

A snowHead

So I have a pair of Atomic LiveFit 90 Womens, that I bought back in 2013 from a locally recommended shop in La Plagne 1800.

History:

I tend to ski a couple of weeks a year (with the odd few trips here and there to Hemel) and I'm about at the easy blacks, most other stuff stage - no off piste, not sure if I will ever feel comfortable enough.

I have wide feet and tend to wear size 9 shoes, although I know some of this is the width meaning I can't get into smaller shoes. I seem to do well at losing toenails and having things rub. Comfort is important to me in boots.

I also over pronate (mild to moderate) and have recently diagnosed sciatica in my right leg. I also have pelvic instability (I'm a lot more wobbly standing on my left leg) and I'm working with a decent sports physio to try and improve that. Having four children isn't good for your body, who knew? I'm in my very early 40s if it makes a difference.

I have poor ankle flex, heck, I'm not very flexible anywhere.

I find my boots reasonably comfortable, but get a lot of shin pain and numbness in my feet, and suffer badly from thigh burn to the point by day 3 I can't go for more than a few minutes at most. However, I am not sure how much of this is down to technique (instructors say my technique isn't that horrific) or general fitness. That said, I usually prepare for skiing by getting myself to a 10K in just over an hour running level of fitness, including hills.

That's the history out the way. Now the problem:

I went for a "warm up ski" at Hemel on Saturday as we're off to Les Arcs 1950 this coming Saturday. As I was about to get my boots off, I noticed that my right foot - when standing normally - was very slightly tilted in. In other words, it is angled slightly inwards with possibly 1-2mm on the right hand side of space between the bottom of the boot and the floor. The left foot is totally fine. My feet are totally fine in normal shoes too, or at least not so that I've noticed. And then I remembered that several times when I've been skiing, I've noticed my right ski (when standing "flat) has often been tilted. I'd assumed it was the bindings, but evidently it is not!! I am cross at myself for not remembering to check back here in the UK when I had plenty of time to do something about it.

So:

1) This weird angle thing - is it in any way responsible or could be contributing to any of my aforementioned problems e.g. shin pain, thigh burn, numb feet, lost toenails?

2) Can the boots be adjusted/fixed to compensate?

3) Should I just get new boots Puzzled

I got these when I was very much a beginner after all, barely touching reds. I've come a long way since then.

Unfortunately as I've only really spotted this last minute, I'm pretty much out of time to fix it here in the UK as I work full time (although I have some flexibility for very late afternoon appointments somewhere near Hemel/London) And from searching Snowheads, nobody seems to know of a decent bootfitter in Les Arcs.

All thoughts welcome, thank you very much!

A snowHead

do you have custom footbeds?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

On that, I am not sure. I freely admit to not being a boot expert in any shape or form. I have the ones that come with the boots, but from my research online there is all this talk about them moulding themselves to your feet (the "LiveFit" part of the boot I guess) as you ski. I am not sure if this counts as being a custom footbed, I suspect not? They were fitted with heat, and the chap in the shop did put in bits of stuff here and there and tweaked the boots on a later visit. I have some heel lift things too.

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I also suspect not, would be the first thing I would look at, of course with a proper bootfitter.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

In response:
1) possibly, see physio and experienced bootfitter
2) potentially yes (boots and/or bindings though not cheap or instant)
3) not necessarily though maybe following (1) above.

Hope you find a skiable fix soon!

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@sparklies, The 'live fit' bit is the rubbery part on the side. It is there for the wider foot.
I think you would benefit from adjusting your canting. Unfortunately I'm pretty sure that these boots don't have a canting adjustment (this would be a little metal adjuster at the ankle part of the boot... I think yours are just plastic/metal plates).
I'll probably get flamed for this but 1 to 2 mm of play isn't really that serious, you could easily compensate for this in your technique. You are never skiing a flat surface so i can't really see it as a massive issue.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Thanks both Happy

Yep, of course a proper bootfitter would be the way to go. I've been to see CEM in the past (think he gave me the heel lifts - he also supplied my husband's boots) but this late in the day it's unlikely to be doable. Last year we went to Tignes and my husband saw JoJo out there for his issues which are far worse than mine! We even saw CEM back in January (adjusting husband's boots) so I'm really kicking myself now for forgetting about the tilt I'd noticed on the ski.

We're renting skis in resort, so unless the rental place happens to be competent enough to make a binding fix on rentals (is this likely, or even possible?) I'm pretty much restricted to boot fixes.

I'm prepared to buy a whole new boot if that is what it takes, as I was never that convinced it was the right one in the first place as it was end of season and on sale. However if I go down that route, it would need to be with a very decent fitter (like CEM) otherwise I'll just end up back where I am but with a different set of problems, probably!

After all it is free

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@flangesax, ah, okay! Having such wide feet does mean my choice of boot is quite restricted I guess. I might have canting though - there's a metal disc with the word "canting" on it on the ankle part - that has to be it? The boots are these: http://www.evo.com/outlet/alpine-ski-boots/atomic-lf-90-womens.aspx Is it something I could even adjust myself maybe? Or a bad idea..

As you say I probably don't notice it most of the time, but I do when standing still (from memory as I haven't skied properly since April, I think I get more hamstring pain on that side trying to get my skis flat) and zooming along flats - which is how I noticed it in the first place. It means I have a very slight edge I have to correct all the time.

@sparklies, if you've got the tool then it's easy enough to adjust the canting yourself. The tool would have come with the boots and it's a flimsy metal plate with two pins that stick out one edge. These pins fit into the two holes in the canting adjuster. if you've not got the tool then any ski shop should have one you could borrow.

To adjust, take your inner boots out and stand in your shells in your normal skiing position. While you stand still get somebody else to adjust the canting so that your leg is centred side to side in the boot shell. Alternatively if you don't have anyone to help then just adjust it a bit and see how it feels. Take the tool with you when you go skiing, it's very easy to adjust a bit at a time through the day until you're happy you've got both skis flat on the snow.

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The so-called canting adjustment of your boot is not a canting adjustment at all, it's a cuff alignment adjustment.

If after checking/adjusting the cuff alignment (as detailed above) that you still find you're running on an inside or outside edge then that shows that your ski is not flat on the snow when you're in you're natural stance. The correction required to do that is canting adjustment & it can be done in a number of ways:

1. the installation of canting shims underneath the liner & on top of the boot board
2. grinding the sole of the boot (only usually possible on solid soled boots like race boots)
3. installation of canting shims between the ski & the bindings (usually only for excessive cases when the correction can't be fully accommodated in the boot.

CEM does 1 & 2 and if further correction is needed I can do 3 based upon his 'prescription'.

CEM has the measuring equipment to assess both lateral canting &/or fore/aft delta angles etc so there's no need for trial & error tinkering etc.

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Great, thank you both of you! Much appreciated.

My husband's boots are also Atomic, and he has the tool - I'm hoping it'll fit mine. I have no idea where mine might be as I bought them over four years ago and we've moved house since. It's probably somewhere "safe", lost forever..

I'll see if we can fix it at home, see how it is to ski on and hopefully it'll be enough! Otherwise it'll be a trip to Bicester when we're back by the sounds of things and take it from there..

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In my experience the cuff adjustment on that model of Atomic boot is not very reliable. The disk you turn is only held in position by friction, and as you flex the boot it tends to edge itself out of position. I found it always need resetting every day or two. I marked the disk and boot with permanent marker arrows to make it easy to check and reset. Still a pain, so ended up getting ski shop to replace friction disk with a bolted version which stays in place just fine.

Spyderjon is of course correct this is a cuff adjustment not true canting, but it gave me some canting effect. Almost certainly not best practise and with potential to cause other boot issues, but it worked OK for me.

@kerb, thanks, that's very useful to know. Given I've put in a reasonable amount of mileage on these boots (not just in the mountains, but dozens of lessons at Hemel) it wouldn't surprise me if something had moved if it's that easy to move. So it may well be more a case of putting it back to how it might have been to begin with. I hope so!

I'll give it a go this evening. And mark the spot, too!

You know it makes sense.

@kerb, my experience too with that boot model.
I had a similar problem as the OP, it evidenced itself in my skiing as always running on the inside edges (eg when on the drag at Hemel or on a schuss on the mountain), being unable to side slip in one direction without the uphill ski catching the downhill edge, and struggling to balance on one ski when doing edging drills such as garlands.
My new boots (from CEM) with some cuff adjustment from him are much better - immediately noticible as I could suddenly do all the above.

@sparklies, do any of those problems sound familiar? If yes then you probably do need the services of a bootfitter.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@Tubaski, Yes!!!! I can never slip slide, never. And I'm not incompetent, I could never understand why I was finding it so difficult - it's exactly as you say with the uphill ski one way round but not so bad the other! And I've had problems balancing on one ski so I've never really tried it. I've definitely noticed it on the drag at Hemel now that you mention it too.

It sounds like it could well be a New Boots scenario. I suspect I am out of luck getting somewhere this week though, especially as I'm working and can really only do early evenings. Ugh.

A snowHead

Some of your side slipping issue might be technique. Had a very old school french instructor on the last day of my 1st winter week and he grabbed my hips and moved them forwards and I could suddenly do sideslipping!

CEM is fab! Will need to go back before I go again as just one baby has changed everything!

A snowHead

It's quite possible some of it is technique. But as soon as @Tubaski mentioned it, I remembered how I could only do it in one direction and how I was sick of the uphill ski constantly digging in despite trying everything. At the time I said the ski just won't go flat.

Alas, it seems CEM is out the country at the moment Crying or Very sad

which limits my options rather. I'm tempted to see if I can get a half day off work if I can get an appointment somewhere, but it is crunch time at work especially as I'm away the following week. But.. maybe. If I can appeal to my boss. I'm guessing S&R at Hemel is probably a no(!) (any opinions on Ellis Brigham at MK?) but I've heard good things about Ski Bartlett which isn't too far away so I may try them. I can probably reach most parts of London but not sure who to try there.

If anyone knows of anyone in Les Arcs (especially 1950 or 2000) that would be perfect, but they'd have to be pretty good.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@sparklies, just be aware it's not a great time of year to buy boots. You could end up with what the shop has left rather than what is right for you.

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@Tubaski, yep.. I think that's what happened last time. Which is why I definitely need somewhere reputable who will say "no boot is suitable, sorry!"

Plus I don't fancy lugging two pairs of boots back wink

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Best get your legs/stance thoroughly checked out by a boot fitter first i.e. without boots or socks, then stand in bare shells of boots etc, to hopefully rule out physiological issues, then search for a remedy whether new boots or current. With what you describe, am surprised you haven't noticed one side of the boot digging into your calf (loosely clipped?). I once had exactly the issue you describe, and it turned out to be a faulty right boot, couldn't get it flat, couldn't ski it flat etc, constantly guarding against catching - took ages for my right knee to recover from the week's abuse!

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I do have sore calves from it digging in, it's never felt quite right. And numb feet which I thought was the cold for years, but when I tried heated socks it made no difference (there's a waste of money) and I ended up with cooked toes as I couldn't feel the heat Embarassed

I've always noticed my right side is more sore/numb than my left, most definitely. I just thought it was a biomechanic thing - whilst it still could be (or a contributing factor as I do have sciatica that side) - this does seem to explain a lot too.

Profeet are booked out until Monday. Ugh.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@sparklies, Bartlett have now added the ability to book appointments rather than just queuing - call them for a time and date (hope to be up there in a fortnight with my daughter: I get to go to CEM next week!).

http://www.skibartlett.com/ski-boot-fitting-i45

After all it is free

Thanks @Arctic Roll - I am planning on calling them in the morning when they open as I suspect they are now my last chance before the holiday. I've scoured pretty much every old post here on Snowheads and it seems there aren't any seriously decent bootfitters in Les Arcs at all. I checked La Plagne (although realistically it's probably impractical to get over AND fit in a fitting?) and most recommendations are actually for the place I used in 1800!

If Ski Bartlett have nothing available, which seems likely at this late date, I'm wondering whether it's worth just hiring boots and pop in some Superfeet insoles (e.g. for overpronation) and then get CEMed once I'm back. Or just stick with what I have and deal with the pain.

@sparklies,
Trying to find out if any of the owners in 1950 buy boots locally: quite a few hire for friends and visitors, not sure if I've actually seen a buying recommendation. I'll come back if I find anything.

So I've found a thread from the summer (it's behind a paywall for owners only): a couple of people have come back with our favourite locals, Seb and Thibaud up at Equilbres in 2000 : they don't do custom footbeds, but seem to have solved some quite tricky feet... If nothing happens before you go, you can always pop in and ask... http://equilibres.free.fr/

There's also a shout out for an individual in Precision in 1950 (name forgotten bleah) .

Both shops would appear to be able to deal with boots bought eleswhere that need a tweak after a few days on the snow - which may also be what you end up needing

HTH

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Take your boots, but also try renting boots from day one - might yield a light bulb moment!

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@Irrev, thanks - yes, I'll definitely take my boots, if for no other reason than I may not be able to find anything right out there!

@Arctic Roll, thank you so much for that! I'd seen the one in 2000 mentioned a few times here on SH, but when I went to their site, I could only see mention of ski hire, not boot fitting services. But if locals say they do, then they must do. I've just seen there are three (HOW?! It's not that big, surely..) Precision shops in 1950 alone, yikes! I may ask the ski school who they use, I think they are partnered with Precision so they may know the individual in question.

We went with Crystal's ski hire because it was included with the bundle we got with the lift pass - they seem to be using Skiset. Hopefully they're okay for ski hire at least!

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Ski Bartlett unsurprisingly booked up until next week. Ah well.

I'm thinking my best option is to take my current boots up to the place in 2000, see if they can do anything, and if not hire some and then visit CEM at some point!

@sparklies, You mentioned pelvic instability, it has taken me a number of years to get and keep my pelvis sitting where it should (and yes pregnancies plus much sporting activity probably played their part). I had to learn how to walk again properly after many years of wearing shoes out unevenly and still have not re-learnt how to ski properly (lol assuming I ever did!). It may well be worth your while seeing an osteopath and getting their perspective on how your lower half is functioning.

My issues began in my mid forties and I went through many different channels/medical experts before finding, around 4 years ago - mid fifties) that getting and keeping the mechanics of my body functioning efficiently was crucial. I really, really wish I had got it sorted when my problems first started.

Best of luck getting all sorted!

You know it makes sense.

@CaravanSkier, I don't *think* I'm at the uneven shoes stage, but to be honest I haven't actually checked so maybe I am! The exercises my physio has given me (the place was recommended by CEM so probably decent!) are all about getting my pelvis stable. I had a lot of SPD in pregnancy, I was on crutches for over half of it each time - I was so relieved to get my mobility back I kind of throw myself into sport, whether skiing or running. As you say, keeping the mechanics of the body going becomes a huge issue as you get older. I'm definitely feeling it more and more and I look back in envy at my 20s when I never did much exercise but had such a decent body in terms of mechanics!

Good luck to you too - keeping on top of it sounds like it's only going to get harder!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@sparklies, Indeed don`t we all take so much of our good health for granted in our 20`s! The shoe wear was not terribly noticeable until my osteopath pointed it out and then I looked back to old pairs and realised it was there especially on softer shoes like flip flops! It sounds like you are doing the 'right' things and hopefully all will turn out well for you.

A snowHead

I'll have to take a look - I know I overpronate so the inside will probably be a little more worn. I tend to buy pretty hardcore shoes as I walk a lot (Teva etc) so the wear probably isn't as noticeable!

Thanks - I hope so too, but I'm not holding my breath. My mother is a good reminder of what happens when you don't look after your health - the pain she was in from walking around eventually translated into loss of cardio, weight gain, high blood pressure etc and she needs a mobility scooter for any distance now. She's only 72 - there were people older than that who finished in front of me in the five miler I did last weekend!

A snowHead

If you're desperate... theres a book by Ron LeMaster (101 things I think, but might be Ultimate Skiing - away at the moment and don't have either with me) where he suggests a trial an error approach using a convenient and readily available padding material (i.e. piste maps) between the liner and the shell to make trial adjustments to cuff alignment. If I remember correctly you pad on the side opposite. So if pronating you would pad on the outside.
Doubtless I'll get flamed for mentioning it - and to be honest not something I've tried - but might be worth trying even if only as a data point.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@Tubaski, That's interesting! If I can't get the cant adjustment thing to work (have to try it this evening) I'm always up for a bit of DIY even if, as you say, it's just as a data point to see if it makes any difference. Thank you!

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@CaravanSkier, Sounds like my Granny, she's in her 90s with Alzheimers and also never complained about anything. They just got on with things, no matter what.. I'm guessing in part they felt they had no choice. There wasn't the Internet or the access to physios/osteopaths etc like we have now - at least not for anyone in my family.

And yeah.. doesn't matter what help is available if it's unfixable Sad

Help!!

My right foot is tilted inwards in my boots!

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