More help choosing skis please

A snowHead

Hi All

After some advice on here I went to MK Snozone to demo some skis.

The trouble was the snow was like sugar, so it wasn't any good to test the skis.

Rossignol Experience 84 HD - The demo skis were way too short 162. The snow was soo grippy, and the skis too short, the result was putting in a turn almost resulted in stopping I was going so slowly. I had to straight line the second section to even move forwards!

Fischer Pro MTN 86 - Longer skis 175. I was able to more speed up and get some decent turns in. Snow again was soo grippy that it felt a little unstable turning.

Blizzard Brahma. These were 180 in length. Best skis of the three, but I think they were the best skis for MK's specific sugary and grippy snow conditions. I was sble to get much more speed up, not be so slowed down by the grippy snow, and able to actually ski.

The trouble is, whilst the Brahmas were good at MK today, on actual snow I think they might be too much to handle. They are very very stiff and heavy skis, that all reviews roundly say are for extremely aggressive heavy skiers. I am not an aggressive skier. I am however heavy, 87kg and 5ft 9".

I want a ski that will perform well in groomers, ski well on fluffy chopped up snow, have a bit of float on slush, cut in to ice, float on powder on the edge of the piste...The All Mountain ski. Trouble is I've now idea which one is suited to me!

Any thoughts based on my opinions of the three skis above?

Thanks

A snowHead

What level skier are you?

Was it this year's Brahma you were on?

What skis have you owned or liked in the past?

What length do you normally ski on?

Are you open to other ski suggestions?

Sorry for all the questions, but it makes it easier to give a (slightly) more relevant answer.

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I must say that I really don't think anyone's opinion who haven't seen you ski and haven't skied on the skis under discussion is likely to be a great deal of help.

Also, new skis won't mean you can suddenly ski crappy snow or bumps.

Lessons however will help.

Perhaps continuing to rent and pay for more lessons is a better altenative?

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I'm not expecting the skis to be magic!

But just hoping for opinions on skis from people around the same level.

Not that it is relevant, but it was never in question that buying skis will result in me not taking lessons.

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@rossyl, I have a lot of sympathy with where you are. I suddenly realised after my fourth week that the skis I was using made a big difference, but figuring out exactly what that difference is can be really tough.

Whilst I am still an intermediate I have skied for a fair few more weeks than you, coming up to 9 in total now... as @under a new name, suggests it might be worth renting for a few more goes before committing. I'm still a serial renter.

As for opinions on the skis you've mentioned, I love the Brahma's (though I have only skied the 2015 version) but they were tough in bumps and you really need to go for it to get the best out of them. I'm not sure I'd have been able to handle them too well in my 5th week, when I think I was on some Head Rev 75s... (The Head's were just about okay, and quite fun to play on, but I remember them feeling really quite soft even then, and I think I would hate them now).

If you are thinking about piste oriented skis (70/80mm), the skis I've just come off from my latest holiday were the Rossi Hero All Turn and might be worth trying out (I've been meaning to write a review). I found them extremely easy to ski. Although they lacked a bit of edge grip / stiffness for my taste, they have the whole hybrid GS/SL ski thing going pretty well and are significantly more forgiving in flex than the Nordica Doberman which is challenging, fun - but tiring. In this width range are also the Blizzard Latigos (the Brahma's little bro) which I very much want to ski, and (pending an actual test) is probably at the top of my list to buy...

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@Pynch, Thanks very much.

That's exactly it.

The skis available seem endless. The various reviews rating them rarely seem to match up, one reviewer says great the next says average. I go to demo them and the snow isn't snow! It is all rather confusing.

My trouble is that I often don't realise how much effect the skis are having.

For example, and now I realise I have actually skied 6 weeks, last year I skied in St Anton and two weeks later skied in Meribel. Whilst some might view St Anton as tougher ski terrain, the difference between my skiing was night and day.
In St Anton my turns weren't great, I'd hit ice and be toast, and generally I felt like I was fighting the whole week. Skiing was tiring and exhausting.
In Meribel two weeks later, the world was a different place and I loved it.
It was only towards the end of the week in Meribel when my wife (who has skied for 25+ years) remarked that it was obviously the skis that were the difference that I had a lightbulb moment. I hadn't noticed myself, but she presumed I had as it was obvious.

That lack of knowledge is obviously not a good position to be in when attempting to purchase skis...but that's why i am asking fellow Snowheads! Smile

After all it is free

I think the typical all mountain ski can be like a SUV at best. They are not really great at anything but try to cater for most situations. If you spend 90% of your time on piste why not consider a piste ski. I had a revelation with a 72mm waist slalom ski after a period of all mountain skis. Worth a try!

@rossyl, i hadn't noticed your relative lack of experience. Almost any ski that's really suitable right now will be hopefully too soft and 'easy' in only a few additional weeks ski time.

Suggesting renting a bit more a sensible plan.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

rossyl, from your description of what you want you are asking for a lot from one pair of skis. Be aware that in my limited experience (34 weeks) All Mountain skis will rarely "cut in to ice" unless the rider has really good technique. Stiffer, 'race' style skis work much better for me in icy conditions.

I can totally see where you are coming from, regarding wanting some that work well in variable and difficult conditions, but these conditions are often challenging for a 6 week skier and will become far easier to ski in as your technique improves. Expertly chosen and custom fitted ski boots can also help a lot.

General suggestions
Enough waist width and length to give you some float. I typically go for a ski with a waist width a few millimetres bigger than my weight in kilograms, but in your case this will limit choice so add length in the form of a rockered tip, which on-piste will feel shorter than a ski with traditional camber and could help you ski the variable conditions more easily.
You need to find the right width/length combination for you, or you need more speed, a more direct line and more centred balance on slushy/cut up snow.
Also, a good piste ski will probably do far more for your learning than an All Mountain ski, in my humble opinion.

http://shop.head.com/en/ski/skis/on-piste/i-supershape-rally-21.html

http://shop.head.com/en/ski/skis/on-piste/i-supershape-titan-18.html

https://www.voelkl.com/skis/all-mountain/all-mountain-piste/rtm-78.html

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

As @lmu2002 says, it's hard to get the perfect ski for all conditions and to suit your style and how and where you like skiing.
I am just making friends with a pair of AM Scott Reverse, which I find are a nice compromise ski for intermediate + levels and are reviewed well for all general conditions. Much wider but still only a 14m radius compared to my beloved 70 waist Elan's, 11.2m radius. Less quick to edge (not a bad thing, maybe; skid/pivot turn much easier) but fast whilst controllable and light. Carve well, respond well to user pressure input. Pleasantly useable so far and a good all-round, multi-technique ski, IMHO.
I bought them after a quick demo at a snowdome, and there they felt best of many tested (also took my existing skis).
Renting is a good idea, as much for testing in real conditions as anything else, checking out reviews of what you try and trying loads per holiday, not just the same set or length all week.
But having your own set is also good. I fell lucky, got my own early on, bought on spec but they've carried me safely through many years in all types of conditions and performed well whilst I've improved. Personally, I reckon that if you get a well-constructed set aimed at intermediate to advanced, you'll be OK.

snow reports

And I should have mentioned that I've gone back to renting skis recently. I always pay extra for the 'premium' rental skis and change them if I'm not happy with them.

@rossyl, I can't advise a specific ski, but I'd suggest trying some under 80mm in width then see what you think of those compared to the wider skis you've tested so far.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but have you had many lessons in your five weeks? This kind of description suggests to me that some technique tune up would make a big difference as well as trying out some new skis.

You know it makes sense.

I am certainly not going to tell you what to buy, or even what will suit you best. What I will try to do is throw out some thoughts and ideas to get you thinking about how to narrow things down....with a few possibilities thrown in for you to try (if possible).

Before you can narrow down a list, you need to decide on the following.

1. Where is the bulk of your skiing actually going to be....not where you would like it to be. In other words, where are you going to make compromises.
2. Do you want a Playful ski, that is easier and more flattering....or do you want a Damp ski, that is more stable at speed and needs better technique.
3. The length you go for depends on the type of ski you go for (how much Rocker); the construction (playful skis need to be longer); the type of turns that you wish to make; where you are going to ski.

What you describe in your first post is an All Mountain ski. These will be a compromise, both On and Off Piste, but will be reasonable at both....with some favoring one or the other. You are ideally looking at 88-93 under foot for an AM ski.

DAMP ALL MOUNTAIN SKIS

Brahma.
The 2017 model has had Carbon Tips and Tails added, which is supposed to have made it more forgiving. It's one of the best AM skis On Piste, but there are others with more float for Off Piste. You won't really know what this ski is like until you get it on the mountain. You could probably get away with the 173, but that might compromise it's float.

Rossignol Experience 88.
Great Piste performance. Probably more forgiving than the Brahma and not quite as good Off Piste.

Nordica Enforcer 93
Very versatile ski, that might be slightly worse than the Brahma On Piste and slightly better Off Piste...but is a touch more playful

PLAYFUL ALL MOUNTAIN SKIS

Scott The Ski
Well loved, flattering "do everything ski", but doesn't have the stability of the Damp Skis listed above. You would need the 180, if not the 185.

Atomic Vantage 90 CTi
Excellent lightweight, fun ski, that has also won awards. Very versatile, both On and Off Piste.

PISTE SKIS

If you are realistically going to spend most of your time On Piste, then I agree with the suggestions of the Head Supershapes above.
If you want something a little more playful, there is the Scott Black Magic.

The Experience 84 should be an excellent ski, but you would need a 178 at a minimum....it might be a little narrow for float compared to the others I listed, but it might suit your needs.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

A snowHead

In addition to all the sage advice above, to help get your head around what skis can / can't do, try and remember (or make a list of) all the skis you've skied on during your time out on a hill, and then look up reviews for each of them.

I find skis.com useful for benchmarking this (Providing you recognise that 3* is the lowest they ever give any ski), because whilst they are not the best review site, their reviewers seem quite consistent with what they describe so you can extrapolate a bit from the experience you have had to understand how skis you've not tried may feel.

If you want a more detailed tech centric view then the Blister Gear review is excellent... but you'll need to make a cup of tea before starting each one. http://blistergearreview.com/index-ski-reviews-sorted-by-type

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@Raceplate, I'd argue that it depends on the skier and the way they get their 6 weeks. My skis are 92 under foot and I got them after 6 weeks. Sure I'm not the best skier in the world, and there's still stuff that I'm not keen on, but I like to think that I do more than just get down runs.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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@rossyl, Blizzard Latigo. Skullie

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@SnoodlesMcFlude, out of interest have you tried anything thinner?

After all it is free

@kitenski, I've skied on thinner skis and I've skied wider skis, but when I wanted to buy my own I was looking for a versatile all mountain ski with park tendencies and these seemed to fit the bill within my budget Cool

I've also got a set of eBay specials for rock hopping that are about 81 under foot and quite tempted by getting some second hand SL skis...but tbh the K2s that I've got seem pretty good in pretty much every condition I've used them in.

@SnoodlesMcFlude, fair enough, the best skis are the ones you enjoy the most Smile

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Thanks everyone, certainly a mixed bag of views and some really helpful reviews.

I've taken so long to respond after a consensus seemed to be building that I was not to buy any skiing toys, this bruised the small boy in me terribly Wink

I am glad to see the tide has changed a little and there are some great thoughts on skis as well as the types of ski I should look at.

I am going to have a look at what everyone has said and come back to you...

One thing I would like to clear up is in relation to my skiing technique and my poor experience at MK.

To give you an idea how bad it was at MK, the piste skis that I was given as part of my ski pass (i.e. the ones Snozone give you free), in a full tuck position, skis perfectly flat pointed right down the fall line, I could have walked faster down the hill. The skis looked battered, but I am guessing barely had any wax. It was like skiing on glue!

Thinking about it more, the Rossi's might not have had been waxed recently.

Help!!

More help choosing skis please

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