 Poster: A snowHead
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We are taking my wife's Freelander this year and I was just wondering which wheels you put the chains on assume it is the rear (although I am sure if I look in the handbook it will confirm).
The other day whilst driving it I managed to hit some black ice going round a corner and it went into a 4 wheel skid only managed to regain control when wheels went up the side bank just before hitting a signpost. When the car started to skid I took my foot off the power and tried to steer into the skid as I would in my 2 wheel drive car, whilst recounting this to a friend he advised that I should have kept my foot on the power and the 4 wheel drive would have regained grip. I would appreciate any opinions on this and any other advise on driving on snow / ice
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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After reading other current thread on 4x4's I should add Yes we do live in the country and my wife uses it everyday for traveling around the county with a trailer. We also use it to tow our 21' Keel boat and to do beach launches with our Rib.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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If you are on black ice the 2,4,8 whell drive isn't going to make much odds.
On snow you will not need chains if you have good tyres. You have probably got normal road tyres though...so read that manual!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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if you are in 4x4 mode put them on the front in my opinion
rungsp - dont agree with the black ice part having driven over it for the past 2 months in temps here down to -12 4x4 does make a difference - if you are driving in 2 wheel mode you will feel the spinning effect a lot lot more
In Switzerland if you dont have 4x4 you are insurance company obliged to have winter tyres on - or the insurance co wont cover you.
A 4x4 without winter tyres handles well enough
the killer on black ice with 4x4 is speed - take it slow and you get there in one bit
On snow the chains make a difference you really can feel the grip change - but get a set that you can get on and off quickly as chains are a pain on clear roads
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| obelix67 wrote: |
In Switzerland if you dont have 4x4 you are insurance company obliged to have winter tyres on - or the insurance co wont cover you. |
No, they don't.
| obelix67 wrote: |
| A 4x4 without winter tyres handles well enough |
No again.
| obelix67 wrote: |
| the killer on black ice with 4x4 is speed - take it slow and you get there in one bit |
If you mean SUV's the two problems are the mass makes it difficult to brake and they don't deliver much feedback to the driver.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Basic skid recovery is the same regardless of which wheels are driven: if you start to pirouette: power off, clutch in, steer into the skid. "Clutch in" is the bit most people forget. If you just lift off, the engine braking effect on the driven wheels will destabilise the car.
If you are an advanced driver and used to handling your car in such circumstances, you can get away with just feathering the throttle and steering in, but if it doesn't come around to the straight and narrow you will have to dip the clutch. You shoudn't really use that technique on public roads until you have had plenty of practice on empty car parks, or skid pans etc. If you drive a lot on icy mountain roads I def recommend a skid-pan course.
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ise, Sorry mate but that is the information based on me living in Canton Vaud - perhaps I was too general with the Switzerland bit my apologies.
That is based on info given to me by the Police (when I checked if I needed winter tyres on it or not) and Winterthur for the car which I was told needs winter tyres here between October and March - even though the biggest single day dump down here last year was in April...
I agree with the ice perv, having done a skid pan course it does make a difference to your driving.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| obelix67 wrote: |
ise, Sorry mate but that is the information based on me living in Canton Vaud - perhaps I was too general with the Switzerland bit my apologies.
That is based on info given to me by the Police (when I checked if I needed winter tyres on it or not) and Winterthur for the car which I was told needs winter tyres here between October and March - even though the biggest single day dump down here last year was in April...
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I have insurance from Winterthur, it doesn't say that in my policy. No one puts winter tyres on in October, I think they were pulling your leg.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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OK, I was in a meeting earlier and didn't have the time to reply properly. The actual situation is that winter are not mandatory in any canton of Switzerland, in fact standards are of course set federally so it's not a canton issue. In terms of insurance then policies do not require winter tyres either, however, if you've an accident where winter tyres would have prevented it then you might be held partly liable. There's no qualification regarding 4wd nor would there be, if 2 times no traction equals no traction then 4 times no traction is just the same. There's no date restrictions either, however with the exception of motorways between Nov' and April you may use studded tyres with some speed restrictions.
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kevinrhead, if you have the alloy wheeled Freelander as I do the only chains that will fit are the Spikes Spyder ones, they're very good but also very expensive, te Landrover badged ones are the same make with Landrover stickers on, check the prices before purchase, the Spikes Spyder chains require you to put a mounting plate on the wheel (fixes over the wheelnuts) before you travel, then if you need chains it takes about 30 seconds per wheel to put them on the vehicle during your journey (less to remove them). Front wheels are the best place to mount a pair of chains on a 4WD but obviously if you can afford it (plus the space inside the vehicle to carry them) all 4 wheels would be better.
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You know it makes sense.
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We were also thinking of taking the wifes' suv to the alps this year, it's a rav4. Checked the handbook and it says to fit chains to the front wheels.
As for the skid, on black ice nothing much is going to help, but in normal circumstances steering into it and dipping the clutch rather than just lifting off should do it. Just lifting off suddenly will cause engine braking as Ice Perv says and that will cause wieght transfer to the front and even less grip from the rear wheels as they carry on past the fronts.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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obelix67, I see that ise has already replied but I suggest that if you have a 4x4 then do get winter tyres if you have 'Summer' or 'General' tyres fitted . I find they make as much ( if not more ) difference as on 2wd cars. Yes, you really can feel the difference.
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Poster: A snowHead
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4 x 4 drivers, support needed please in the Apres Zone.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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chris, already been. I admit it was very useful having a 4x4/SUV when it snowed just before New Year. We had to take friends back to Turin.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It is always the tyre that matters the most.
The 4x4 mechanism requires two wheels to spin instead of one to get stuck. That is all. In normal paved road driving the diff. lock will not apply although expensive models can electronically activate it "on-the-fly".
A 4x4 equipped with high speed low profile summer tyres is unsafe in winter condition. I would rather have a 2WD car with winter typres or at least "all-season" tyres.
The snow chains are to be fitted in all wheels. When there is only one set for two wheels I think the standard practice is to put them on the steering front tyres, as they improve grid as well as directional control.
I run a 4x4 myself and drive it every year to the Alps. The typres are newish "all season" as I use a differest set in the summer. The one set of snow chains been with me for 4 trips without getting used yet.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 31-01-06 12:56; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| ise wrote: |
| standards are of course set federally so it's not a canton issue. |
Must be about the only thing that is!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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i live in the mountains of colorado at a fairly high elevation (9200 feet). we had 140 inches of snow in december and the roads remain snow packed almost all winter. i don't know of anyone ever using chains other than two wheel multi axle commercial vehicles on mountain passes.
snow tires (tyres!) are the answer along with awd or 4wd.
skidding? i teach skiing all day, hence the drive home on a windy snow packed road often becomes an extension of skiing. judicious use of anti-lock brakes prior to curves, downshifting, very active steering/countersteering, and power at the right moment are the skill needed to drive snowpacked roads.
once a drift begins counter-steer typically only serves to correct alignment of the tail of the vehicle. aggressive acceleration and traction is the answer. keep "feathering with the wheel. it's tough to do and takes guts.
tire of choice. i have tried almost all from michelin to gislaveds (sp?). i like blizzaks (sp?) the best.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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i would also favour using power in a 4 wheel drive or front wheel drive car.. in a ford capri, i would also use power as you are going to die so you may as well have some fun on the way out.. 
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| CANV CANVINGTON wrote: |
| i would also favour using power in a 4 wheel drive or front wheel drive car.. in a ford capri, i would also use power as you are going to die so you may as well have some fun on the way out.. |
I'd rather have grip and traction personally.
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I agree with the blizzaks but I have an all season wide and big tread on the 4x4 - sometimes she slides - but so far the 4 wheel drive has gotten me out of any mishaps before they can occur so far - apart from reversing into the letterbox on the house.
I got some rubber snowchains with my last 4x4 a jap import - adds about 1cm to the tread and they also have 1 cm metal studds - like you get on ice preparation machines for ice rinks - used them once so far - they work.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The diffrence in tyres is everything. My 4x4 with winter tyres was sure footed, never used chain but i used another 4x4 with normal tyres and it was a death trap. it would not stop and after 1 drive never again.
My other car front wheel drive took to the car park with the normal tyres on and skated around with liilt to no control then put the winter tyres on and contol was regained.
the correct tyre for the job is what you need.
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Think it depends on the 4x4 - we had a big job last year which was an embarresment on the snow whilst others are terrific - always have chains in the back - it will be less expensive than changing your tyres and theres a fair chance that you'll not hit rotton driving contiions anyway.
We now have a Skoda Octavia 4x4 which I cannot say enough good things about without sounding like a car sales man!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| sarah@alpedhuez wrote: |
| We now have a Skoda Octavia 4x4 which I cannot say enough good things about without sounding like a car sales man!! |
I really like the look of that car actually. The people I know who have them all say good things about the.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ise, we looked at that too when we bought our X-trail, we did like it they just couldn't get us the model we wanted quickly enough. Also a bit small in the back for our strapping teens, esp on a long journey.
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Yes that is the only draw-back - leg room in the back isn't as good as it could be but we only have a 2 yr old so no probs there!! Very economical on the petrol front too and truly fabulous on snow!
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You know it makes sense.
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Heard a rumour that the Skoda Octavia would be available with the more powerful 140BHP engine later this year (as opposed to the 105BHP now).
The new RAV4 looks good esp with that 180 bhp super-clean diesel engine. It's supposed to the new best in it's class, very good quality/workmanship and handle well too
http://www.parkers.co.uk/choosing/carreviews/review.aspx?model_id=1467
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