Technica Cochise - what flex ?

A snowHead

Firstly – hello! This is my first post, apologies if there has been a similar post on the cochise boot (I did try searching first)

After several hours in a sweaty boot room, I’ve decided to go for a Technica Cochise boot as my first proper touring boot (which also seems to be pretty much the only AT boot which fits my high instep feet…). I haven’t had them fitted yet. I’m 187cms and 85kgs and a strong and pretty fast skier – but certainly no cliff hucker. I had originally been thinking of the 120 flex, but several things I’ve read suggest that even a 130 could be comparable to a some 110 alpine boots and I’m no lightweight. Does anyone have any advice or experience with this boot?

My most recent point of comparison is a Rossignol Alltrack 130 which I got on pretty well with. But I’m not sure if a 130 flex is overkill for a 2.5 week a year skier and will it just punish me further on the uphill?! I will be also be using them (if not more) on the pistes and off lifts too.

Thanks in advance

A snowHead

The flex won't matter on the uphill, the spine is broken and the cuff loosened to ascend.

I've just moved from a 120 Cochise to a newer 130 Cochise, it is noticeably stiffer, but both are way softer then my FullTilt Seth Morrisons (but as they don't give a flex, and every manufacturer has their own measure anyway, that is only so much help to you).

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Another comparison that's only so much help.

I was having a cuppa after skiing with a guy who is sponsored by Lange, he's a freerider and hikes plenty.

I asked why he didn't run XT130s, he replied that despite having the same flex rating (from the same manufacturer) his Comp's (I think, but anyway a race boot) were way way stiffer.

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Oh, and I'm 180 & 80kg (until I get control of the Christmas bloat) and neither the 120 nor 130 Cochise is close to being too stiff. But then I've never seen you ski, nor you me, so again - only so much help.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@crawf, The new Tecnica Cochise 130 isn't really a touring boot, as at 1950g per boot, it is firmly in the hike and ride category, which covers alpine like boots with tech fittings and a walk mode.

The majority of light touring boots are tongue boots, rather than overlap, so have a different flex pattern. Therefore the flex rating is not a direct comparison.

As mentioned by @midgetbiker, the boots flex rating will have no effect on the uphill. The Cochise will have a smaller range of movement, and be heavier than a full touring boot, on the uphill, but should be a lot better on the down Very Happy

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BTW none of my experience is with the new Cochise (the 4 buckle one), which I think has moved closer to alpine in it's focus as @PowderAdict says.

The older Cochise was 3 buckle and that's where my experience lies. The older boots flex was definitely 'exaggerated' in comparison to a piste or race boot.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I just got the new Cochise 130. It doesn't feel super-stiff, especially compared to my other alpine boots (no idea what the flex is on them as they were a factory shell with an injected race foam liner - not sure they even have any flex! wink

)
After much punching and grinding, I now just about fit in them and they do ski really well and are fairly light - weight is comparable to my Garmont Endorphins that these are intended to replace.

After all it is free

Oh and I'm shorter and fatter than @midgetbiker

Thanks for all the advice guys – much appreciated !

I think my concern is ending up with a boot that’s way stiffer than my ability (e.g. a confident black skier – not a shredder) – and (slightly) heavier than the 120. But given my height/weight I think I’ll probably go for the 130, as thinking back I’ve generally found boots too soft rather than too stiff. I don’t think the Cochise seems a bad bet for a transition to more touring, as I can only afford to have one pair of boots at the moment Cool

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@crawf, bear in mind that the latest 'hike and ride' boots like the Cochise are still a step better in terms of lightness vs stiffness than those of a few years ago such as the dynafit titans. Until this year I was doing week long self-powered uplift on titans and it didn't cripple me. From what you say regarding how much skiing you do, I'd say the Cochise sounds about right snowHead

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

They're nice boots, go for the 130 I'd say. I ski the 3 buckle with power strap, older version 130, I really like them, but I'd like the 4 buckle ones more I'd say.

snow reports

http://bit.ly/2iDZRji

I just tried on a huge range of freeride/touring boots inc the 130 Cochise. It had a lovely range of motion for a non pure touring boot, but I found that the flex seemed much softer than the boot I ended up going for, the Salomon Quest Max 130. That had less articulation in the walk mode but felt the best for having a stiff flex and driving the ski and really suited my foot shape without needing heat moulding. I had tried the Quest Pro 110 but I just couldn't get on with such a soft boot, I even used to fall over doing a sudden hockey stop on my Bents as I was used to skiing off piste in Atomic Redsters and they give a hell of a lot of cuff support. I do have a pair of lighter touring boots for longer skins.

@CH2O, How are you fella? I'm still skiing those Nordica Enforcers as my all round ski and touring happily on them Toofy Grin

You know it makes sense.

I've had a couple of days on my new Cochise 130s now, and seriously in love them with them. In some ways the flex actually feels softer than my old Pro Lights, but in reality I think that's just because it's smoother and they fit better round my leg. Fit is great after a simple heat mould. Ski fantastically - smoother and more responsive than the Pro Lights (which tbd are totally beaten up after 3 years of heavy use). At ~70kg the flex feels spot on (even when it was seriously freezing). I could imagine heavier skiers may prefer something stiffer if really gunning it.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Hello - I got the Cochise 120s and now have one weeks skiing in it. Whilst the fit around the foot is good I am alarmed and very concerned about how quickly the boot upper softened during the course of a weeks skiing - this was to the point that the entire boot was flexing heavily. Please see video below which shows this:

http://youtube.com/v/vLdkaRcon6s

At the beginning of the week I had the top buckle at middle tightness - but by the middle-end of the week the boot had softened so much I had had to move this to the furthest out position where the buckle was finger tight at best. You should also be able to see the overlap on the powerstrap.

Needless to say the performance isn't even close to what the boot should be offering when it's flexing this much. I'm keen to get some advice before going back to the shop. E.g. is this is a fit issue (although I hardly have chicken legs!) and could be fixed be drilling a new hole/tightening boot etc or is it a problem with the boot itself? I have a shell gap of around 2cms.

Thanks

A snowHead

Assuming that there's no fault in the boots construction:

I'd check your shell fit more accurately - I'd want to be more precise than "around 2cm". Most people under estimate the shell gap so use a spacer to suss it properly (ie dowel/brush handle/marker pen etc). You really should be less than 20mm for a 'performance' fit. A 15-17mm will gap will give a better fit with efficient flexing but still enough length for when in walk mode etc.

But volume looks too big as well around the top of the ankle & the underside of the lower cuff strap looks like it has no clearance so it's pushing the clog down when you flex. I had that years ago with a Sallie boot that was correct for me in length & forefoot width but was still too roomy over the top of my foot.

I'm concerned with your comment that "I’ve decided to go for a Technica Cochise boot" which leads me to believe that you chose the boot model/size/volume rather than a good bootfitter telling you that this is the correct one for you.

A snowHead

I've got last year's pro light which has a 120 flex, I beefed them up with a proper power strap buckle like on the non-light version. I had previously tried the cochise 110 which confirmed the shell fit snug 15mm (ish) heel gap and room on the instep to accommodate my substantial heel lift (I have restricted ankle flexion). However the 110 proved far too soft (I'm 68kg) unfortunately the boot fitter wasn't able to source a stiffer cochise for me and the new (now current) model doesn't have the same instep room. I managed to get the last pair of pro lights on line in the same shell size which my friends at Rivington Alpine did an excellent job of fitting for me (having previously made my footbeds).
After 2 weeks skiing on and off piste the fit is perfect, I had to wear ultra thin socks at first until the liners packed out a bit. With the buckles nicely but not over tight I can drive the edges on icy blacks, slightly looser nice and progressive for mixed off piste conditions, they feel significantly stiffer than my previous Black Diamond Factor 110s.

I feel that your boots may be a little too big and you may be experiencing the liners packing out rather than losing stiffness.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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there's another thread around here about 'off piste boot stiffness' in which a poster gives a big recommendation for a Salomon boot iirc. He also liked the Cochise 130 I think, and seemed to have tried a few of them. Look it up!!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@crawf, there are quite a few similar boots out there: fit being most important of course. Lange XT Freetour 130 I felt have a closer more exact fit and ski/tour VERY well

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Technica Cochise - what flex ?

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