 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi - I've been registered here since it started, but haven't yet felt the need to post: most of my questions have been covered anyway!
I'm a developing intermediate (weeks 4 to 6 beckon) and, coming from a mountaineering background, I am learning to ski primarily to do some touring and ski mountaineering before I'm too old. (I do seem to have got hooked on the downhill bit, though!) I hadn't been planning on getting my own skis just yet, but have three trips planned this season and the supply side seems to have changed...
Atomic R9s (and predecesors) seem to have been the popular weapon of choice for a while, but seem to have been dropped by Atomic. I've found a shop with a pair and have bought them (reduced  ). My question concerns bindings: do I get touring bindings fitted straightaway or do I get downhill ones while I'm still learning? If the latter is seen as the best bet, will it be a problem in a year or two (or three...!) when I come to have touring bindings fitted (ie drilling and redrilling?)
Any advice out there gratefully received.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Welcome to Snowheads Steve. I have redrilled quite a few pairs of skis with no ill effects (make sure you fill the old holes with water resistant glue). However if you are going ski touring the consequences of a weakened ski breaking are likely to be far more serious than if one of my skis broke whilst on the piste or, at worst, doing some off piste run within a ski area's boundary. On balance I would just use them with downhill bindings and then sell them on complete with bindings when you decide to go with a touring set-up.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Depends on your choice of touring binding.
If you were going to go for the Fritschi Freeride's or the Naxo's, they are both DIN releasable, and therefore have breaks and release during a fall meaning you can use them in resort boundarys quite easily, even if not offering quite the same levels of release protection as downhill bindings.
If however you were looking at something like the Fritschi Explore which has no release, then you would need to fit alpine binders for now and then change them at a later date.
The problem you have is not so much how the drilling may weaken the ski, as this is much less of a problem than is widely believed, but as to whether the mount points (drill holes) would overlap. If they did, then you would have to compromise your mounting point so as to prevent this. Obviously this is not ideal.
Personally, I would say that you are now beyond the realms of the total beginner where easily releasable binders are necessary. If you did go for regular binders you would probably still have a DIN setting which is within the range of the Freerides and Naxos.
Therefore, although a little extra weight than something like the tour only Explore, go with a DIN releasable tour binding and you will be fine for now and when you start touring, and have only to spend money once, not twice!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I would go for the Freerides. I did last season and am very happy with their performance: they work well on piste, but I use them mainly for lift served off piste with the odd climb (but have not yet skinned with them). the naxos had some teething problems when they came out 2/3 seasons ago but these should have been resolved by now.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hi,
I'd go with the freerides - its what I've used for the last two seasons, they work fine for me on piste. I also prefer the ski mountaineering boot to a standard downhill boot.
However this year I'm thinking of adding telemark to my armoury, but I'm planning on starting with some light weight nordic camber skis to do some low level touring here in scotland when the snow arrives in this hard winter wwe are going to have 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thanks everybody for the advice so far. I feel a bit more confident about being OK on touring bindings now (apart from the cost of them, of course!)
Dave: I hope ski touring in Scotland does become possible again, decent conditions even for winter mountaineering are rare these days. It was while on a winter walk/climb on Ben Wyvis some years ago that I saw people skiing and first thought "I wanna do that!" Unfortunately, the only good winter for years was when Scotland was closed for foot & mouth.
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/qoute Unfortunately, the only good winter for years was when Scotland was closed for foot & mouth. /quote
No it wasn't - I did a lot of skiing that year and none of the resorts were closed. I've also managed decent skiing every year scince including some touring. My main problem is that i haven't anyone to ski with so I tour when I'm very certain of the conditions. Mind you I'm told that conditions over the back at Cairngorm weren't bad last year - better than the resort. Though i didn't ski outwith of the ski area last year.
Cheers
Dave
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Stevo, You could fit normal Alpine bindings, and then use the 'Alpine Trekker', which converts bindings to a touring bindings, but the Fritchis are so good, it may be beter to go with them. What ski boots are you planning to use, touring boots ?
Alternatively, learn to telemark !
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Dave: Didn't mean to offend! But the F&M winter was pretty spectacular. And the fact that ski areas were open that winter caused a degree of angst among climbing and mountaineering organisations - access was denied to anyone except skiers! I don't doubt that winter still arrives every now and then up there, but for us poor souls who are 8 hours away, it is so unreliable - making it very high risk to book time off work a few weeks in advance.
Oh, to be able to look out of the window and say "I think I'll go skiing today"!
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ski: I have alpine boots, but intend to get touring/ski mountaineering boots when I'm good enough to start touring, which I think will be a couple of years yet. Don't think I'll ever be good enough to move onto telemark!
I think the Alpine Trekker will be too heavy (and alpine binding + alpine trekker = same price as the Freeride)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| JonL wrote: |
If however you were looking at something like the Fritschi Explore which has no release, |
Of course the Explore has DIN settable release on heel and toe. The only difference between the Explore (ex-T3) and the Freeride is the Explore goes to DIN10 whereas the Naxo and Freeride have DIN settings to 12. A beginner, unless they are very heavy, will probably have no need for this. The Silvretta and Dynamir bindings also have DIN release.
The main problem with the 2004 Naxo is that it is a fragile binding and doesn't like abuse. The 2005 has a lot of revisions which address most of the problems we've seen - but adds yet more weight to something that is very lardy already.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Stevo, Fritschis then......
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So are touring bindings really as good for downhill? I'm almost thinking about touring bindings, but when I compare them to my downhill bindings they seem rather primative, do they really offer the same degree of protection?
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You know it makes sense.
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| stuarth wrote: |
| So are touring bindings really as good for downhill? |
Can you hit a nail in with a wrench? It is a question of the right tool for the job. Naxo made a lot of noise last year about their binding being the first downhill touring binding with real DIN values. Oh how short are Swiss memories, they obviously have forgotten the Sk'Alp 8007 (still in production in a little factory about 200 meters from my house) and one of the Emery bindings were based on alpine ski bindings so offered true DIN release - and with about the same weight as the fairly heavy Naxo.
The Naxo is interesting though, if you want something that at least looks like an alpine binding on your foot, hopefully this year they have the reliability problems sorted.
Touring bindings are obviously a compromise - the bindings will not be as solid, they have more play compared to an alpine binding - as they have to pivot for uphill use. They are also designed to take touring boots with rubber soles. They don't have the same release possibilities as some of the most advanced alpine bindings so you may see more of certain types of injury using touring bindings for agressive downhill use.
If you want one pair of skis only, and are not going to hack aggressively through mogul fields etc I would suggest the Freerides (Naxo if you wait until the end of the season to see what new bugs they find, if any) if you are only going to be climbing say 300-400 meters (as you do to reach a lot of the off-piste around the Tarentaise resorts). If you think ski touring is going to be more your thing then look at the Fritschi Explore or Silvretta Pure (2005 version only though) or even the Dynafit Comfort or Tourlite Techs.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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As a newcomer to the site, I may have missed this thread as it is over a month old but...
...As I have said elsewhere, I use an alpine ski (volkl G4) with a Diamir Freeride binding for almost everything. the exception being the odd race and very early season. I weigh 15.5 stone and raced for 10 years, so am very aggressive and hard on kit. The Diamir FR is superb and has never yet had to release despite aggressive freeriding on steeps and deeps. Go with that capital outlay and it will see you right I am sure.
Boots? I have used TR12 and sold them after one go, Lowa Evos and gave them back to the shop, rental Denali XTs and got cramp!! So am toying with some Adrenalines but actually am quite happy in my Nordica Grand Prix race boots. There is a weight penalty cos I also take approach boots with me if there is too much hiking to be done...
Get touring, it is the way ahead!
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Poster: A snowHead
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BEWARE! For anything less than a few hundred feet up 'once a holiday' the Alpine trekkers are far to fragile. It only takes one stumble and heel twist while skinning up and the toe pivot snaps usually at the weak point where the female threads in the toe insert end. We have decided to refuse to allow folk to tour with us who have them, the hassle of siting in the snow and duct-taping them back into their skis is a real pain! I don't see any change in this years model so avoid them like the plague.
Naxo say they have fixed their snapping toe unit problem but until the season has run a bit longer I don't know if that is true..
So go with the Fritschi Diamir, the 'free ride' if you can afford it. ( For some reson this model doesn't have the spring under the toe to help with uphill kickturns, while the other models do have it. They can be bought as accessories so grab a pair at the same time)
I weigh in at 220 pounds plus backpack and in the last three seasons haven't had a set fail on me or on customers. And believe me, here in the Pacific rainforest that is Whistler we can end up skiing some seriously heavy snow.
A few years ago the first generation of them had a problem that the length adjust screw would strip alowing the heel step-in to slide away from the toe, but I haven't seen that happen to any of the dozen odd Freerides we have had, some of which are entering their 3rd season of regular use. The plastic top plate of the stopper does occsionally fracture however so make sure your dealer fills in the guarantee and will honour it! Check them and if cracked COMPLAIN.
Aloha from Whistler.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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