 Poster: A snowHead
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Hello everybody,
First of all can I say we are a tyre company but were not here to drop links after each sentence.
After years of selling winter tyres to the UK and throughout Europe we have gained a great source of knowledge regarding European law, size conversion, wheels and most of all tyres safety.
After many years of speaking with customers via the telephone there is a lot of bad information regarding winter tyres and all tyres in general on certain forums (not necessarily this one)
So basically if anybody would like to ask a question regarding winter tyres please ask by replying to this post,
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 4-10-12 17:12; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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tyremen, Welcome to snowHeads 
Do you have a link to the latest EU tyre labelling regulations and partuicularly that part relating to M+S and snowflake markings?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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tyremen, Welcome - I will be calling this afternoon to complete my order.
To the General Snowheadsphere - after much faffing with an (insert name of a German Car manufacturer) main dealer I called tyremen on a recommendation from another SnowHead and they answered all my questions in a heartbeat - regarding legal tyre/wheel size combos for my car, recommendations on tyres etc. Nice to deal with a set of professionals.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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At last an end to the winter tyre threads we have a resident expert: He probably has an answer for What skis do I need? As well
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thanks all! I'm glad to hear that we've been doing something right.
Label info - tyresafe have a bunch of info on this and some nice little videos: http://www.tyresafe.org/tyre-safety/tyre-labelling-information
however...............
There is no mention of winter tyres so all regulations remain unchanged in terms of snowflake info - 'boredsurfing' let me know if you need further info.
To be honest the labelling thing is a complete joke! It is particularly useless for winter tyres and the info from the labels has nothing to do with cold weather performance. Essentially tyres will have a label like those you see on fridges and display info on:
noise - actually external noise, nothing to do with tyre noise inside the car. who cares?
fuel efficiency - slightly more important but the difference between the best and the worst performers is about a tank of fuel over the life of the tyre. But winter tyres are designed to offer winter driving safety so I'd rather have a product that is going to get me through the Alps safely rather than worry about a few pence fuel saving.
wet grip - is purely straight line braking performance in warm conditions, nothing to do with stopping in snow, or even curved braking, aquaplaning resistance.....
It's funny as the big boy manufacturers such as Michelin pushed to get this labelling to happen and they designed tyres that will get AA ratings, but the tyres are no good. The latest Auto Express summer tyre test put the AB rated Michelin tyre in last place - whoops!
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tyremen, ah, thanks, can you clarify, for the wider audience on here the difference between an M+S rated tyre and a snowflake labelled tyre?
Thanks
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Was going to ask why it's recommended to run Winter tyres at slightly higher pressure than Summer ones but found this.
Thought I'd post it up anyway and see if you wanted to add anything:
"Several vehicle manufacturer's owner's manuals recommend operating winter tires several psi (typically 3-5) higher than their recommended pressures for summer and all-season tires. While none of them actually provide the reason why, there are several scenarios that would support the practice.
First and foremost is that winter tires feature more aggressive tread designs, softer tread compounds and are often molded with deeper beginning tread depths than summer or all-season tires. While the combination of these design elements allows winter tires to remain more pliable in sub-freezing temperatures to provide more traction in snow and on ice, it often results in tires that have somewhat reduced responsiveness to driver input. The 3-5 psi higher recommended inflation pressures increase tire stability and help offset the reduction in responsiveness.
Additionally ambient air temperatures in winter typically range 40- to 50-degrees Fahrenheit colder than typical summer temperatures for the same location. The lower ambient temperatures allow tires to be more efficient at radiating heat and the tires will run cooler, building up less hot tire pressure. In this case, the 3-5 psi higher recommended inflation pressure increase helps offset the reduced hot tire pressures resulting from less heat buildup.
And finally, all tire pressures are intended to be measured cold, which means when the tires are at the same temperature as the air outside. Unfortunately, unless you park your vehicle outside or in an unheated, detached garage, and measure its tire pressures first thing on dark, cold mornings, the influence of attached garages or higher ambient air temperatures later in the day often means that drivers are actually measuring tires that are not completely cold. In this case the 3-5 psi higher recommended inflation pressure increase helps offset the reduced tire pressures associated with the conditions in which the tire pressures are typically measured."
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The mountain snowflake symbol is the definitive marking for a winter/cold weather tyre. If you were driving in a country where winter tyres are mandatory then this is the symbol that any regulatory authorities would be looking for.
M+S on a tyre means nothing at all! There are many example of dodgy budget, Chinese produced summer tyres that are produced with m+s markings on them. Don't be fooled tyres only marked m+s does not necessarily make for safe winter driving!
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Higher pressure description sounds logical. Some tyres (even summer ones) just work better at higher pressures, such as Vredestein. There is also a bit of personal preference in there if you like the increased firmness then a few extra psi may offer that without being particularly detrimental to the tyres properties.
Phill.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Question, I have a set of nobblies on ny Navara, Hankook Dynapro ATM and drive over to the continent when we go skiing. I don't think theyre marketed as winter tyres but probably grip better.
Am I likely to be pulled by the police?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Your Hankook tyres are not true winter tyres and it if pulled it is possible that you would encounter problems. Even though knobbly tyres have aggressive tread patterns their rubber compound is not designed for cold weather use so could not be as effective as you might think.
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You know it makes sense.
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That surprises me as Micheldever are not a Vredestein agent. I'll get a member deal set up but in the mean time PM me the size and I'll see what I can do.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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tyremen, Just checked, the quote wasn't for vredsteins, although thats what I asked for!! Not the same since Protyre took over 
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Poster: A snowHead
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I've always been struck by the very large difference in price between the cheapest winter tyres and the most expensive. Over the years I've bought Vredstein winter tyres at considerable expense and Sunny winter tyres at considerably less expense, and a couple of other brands somewhere between the two. I've driven in a fairly wide range of winter conditions and to be honest I don't think I could tell the difference in performance between expensive and budget tyres. tyremen, can you explain the difference in price? Should I avoid the cheapest tyres?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 4-10-12 17:23; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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tyremen, welcome to snowHeads, BTW. Nice to have expertise in this area on the forum.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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tyremen, wlecome to 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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tyremen, If running winter tyres (Conti) on smaller wheels on a high performance 4X4 what air temperatures would you change back to Summer tyres?
Thank you in anticipation
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| tyremen wrote: |
The mountain snowflake symbol is the definitive marking for a winter/cold weather tyre. If you were driving in a country where winter tyres are mandatory then this is the symbol that any regulatory authorities would be looking for.
M+S on a tyre means nothing at all! There are many example of dodgy budget, Chinese produced summer tyres that are produced with m+s markings on them. Don't be fooled tyres only marked m+s does not necessarily make for safe winter driving! |
I have Bridgestone A001 All Weather Tyres with M&S marking. I wrote to Bridgestone Technical Services to get advice as there is no snowflake. they said:
All our A001 have a M+S marking on the sidewall (some have a snowflake, depending on size). No exceptions. – It has to be on there and is quite small. German Law states that
All Bridgestone Products are marketed for the EU (there’s no such thing as a “British tyre market”) so any laws or restrictions imposed by any EU country has to be taken into account when designing these products. –otherwise you would be switching tyres at every border crossing….
I can officially state that the A001 is fully compliant with the German Federal Ministry of Transport (BMVBS) specifications for Winter tire use.
See official website link Below
BMVBS - Press releases-The use of winter tyres has been mandatory since 4 December 2010
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Tyreman - could you recommend me a set of 4 for a 2000 Audi A6 Avant Quattro, 1.8t (Petrol)? It's on 17" alloys at present, so I'd be looking for a set of 15/16" steelies to reduce costs. I'll taking the car into the mountains for the whole of next season. Last season I drove a rental car on Dunlop Winter 3ds, I found them excellent and was intending to get the same again unless someone advised differently. If you wanted to, you could also send me a cheeky quote via PM, as well as your location 
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tyremen, Please quote for fitted price 4 X 225/45/17 - Budget tyres. PM me if you'd prefer.
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Snowsocks. Any good?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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tyremen, I've got directional winter tyres (Goodyear Ultragrip). Often wondered what the regs are for full-sized spare. Obviously not much point carrying one directional tyre on the 50:50 chance you guess which side is gonna pop so what do you carry?
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| tyremen, I've got directional winter tyres (Goodyear Ultragrip). Often wondered what the regs are for full-sized spare. Obviously not much point carrying one directional tyre on the 50:50 chance you guess which side is gonna pop so what do you carry? |
+1 (except it's Wintrac 4 Xtremes)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hi tyremen, can you offer a definitive answer on whether should we wear helmets when changing winter tyres !!?
Sorry, in-house joke!!
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You know it makes sense.
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Thought I was able to tell my OH something he wouldn't know and directed him towards this topic - only to be told that Tyremen are who he bought our last lot of winter tyres from, I suppose three years ago - Vredesteins. He was very happy apparently with the service - now need to get on and order some new ones, for him and me.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Another thumbs up for Tyremen.
They have come a long way in the years I have used them. A huge expansion when moving to new premises, but the expertise and service did not suffer.
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Poster: A snowHead
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rob@rar, thanks for the welcome! Our position is that we would never recommend budget winter tyres, winter tyres are designed to offer enhanced safety in cold conditions and budget offerings simply don't offer this. All the independent tyre test reports that we see always throw a budget winter tyre into the mix and they always come our very poorly indeed. Their performance in all testing disciplines is often shocking and generally not much better than a standard summer tyre - avoid!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Cynic, winter tyres work best when the temperature is consistently below 7 degrees, when air temp is above this then it's about time to swap over. However there is no hard and fast rule, many drivers run them longer and when things have warmed up a bit in order to get a bit more use out of them and there is no problem with doing this.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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holidayloverxx, you may well have found the exception to the rule there! Why Bridgestone make an all season tyre that they choose to not snowflake mark certain sizes is beyond me? Every all-season product that we have seen is marked in all sizes. I think Bridgestone are pretty new to all-season tyres so they are just playing catch up with the more established all-season producers.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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jiagedaping, cheers I'll PM you.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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skimastaaah, shall do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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fatbob, snow socks serve a purpose I suppose. If you were stuck on your drive and needed help getting moving then they may help, but they are not something that you leave on and I think they have limited use.
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Bode Swiller, if you have a full size spare and want to fit a winter tyre to it in order to be belt and braces safe then fitting a non-directional would make sense. However having the same product as fitted to the car has the advantage that it can be brought into use later if another tyre become damaged beyond repair. Running a tyre the wrong way round as a temporary measure is not a big problem and for the sake of economics would probably be my preference.
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Thanks for the pressure info.
We usually take our winter wheels & tyres off some time in April (French Alps).
It's a careful balancing act of watching the long term weather, ambient temps etc. both locally at 2100m and down in the valley.
A quick wash down, dry them off and then we store them in a dry garage in a 4 wheel stack.
Being premium tyres for 2 cars, they aren't cheap so I'm just wondering what the best way to store them would be from
April through to December? Other than wearing down, do tyres in general have a period after which they start to deteriorate in performance?
Does road salt cause any damage so should be washed off asap?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Megamum, absolutely! I think gloves and goggles are a must too!
he he
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| tyremen wrote: |
| fatbob, snow socks serve a purpose I suppose. If you were stuck on your drive and needed help getting moving then they may help, but they are not something that you leave on and I think they have limited use. |
I've used snow-socks in 'anger' a couple of winters ago. They were jus as effective as chains for the purpose where the main road was thick with snow and it was falling fast enough that the gritters and ploughs couldn't keep up.
I stopped in a layby to put them on, which was far quicker than chains. I got to my hotel without any drama and found traction to be very good with them. As with chains, keep the speed down.
I left them on overnight, expecting a frozen and snowy carpark and they worked admirably there too. I took them off a few miles away from the hotel on the way home, and had driven on maybe half a mile of clear road until I found a safe place to stop.
There's very little evidence of wear on them, and for the few occasions I have needed chains in the UK, they are a good alternative.
I'm not so sure about longer term use.
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FAQ
