 Poster: A snowHead
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Bit of a review of my recent SW course in Tinges that hopefully those thinking of attending will find helpful in future.
I ended up finding SW after struggling to get a trip together this season with any of my mates, the tuition appealed the most but the fact that allot of SW clients are solo travellers also appealed. There are a couple of companies offering similar things out there, I settled on SW as I couldn't find a bad word to be said about them, the AT course appealed, and I'd never skied in the EK region but had always wanted to.
You can choose either to travel independently-choose you own hotel and flights etc or SW will do the leg work for you. They are partnered with Mark Warner, if you get in early enough (accommodation dependent) there are single rooms available, you can pay a single supplement or room share. I room shared, you'll get put in a same sex room with someone of a similar age, assuming there is someone else on the course of a similar age.
I'd skied 7 weeks before the course with a few days here and there in Scotland with numerous fridge sessions. I'd classed myself as an average intermediate, get down any piste in any conditions although not with any particular style! My aims were to get better in the variable stuff and off piste and generally just to be able to enjoy more of the mountain.
SW, depending on the week have groups 3-7. I think from their description level 3 is a red run standard skier who has maybe done a few easier blacks in good conditions. I put myself in lv 4, I thought about going into Lv 3 as I'd rather be promoted than demoted but lv 4 seemed to fit me well. Speaking to others who had attended previous courses the standard within each group can vary as I guess you'd expect from course to course. According to one previous attendee this lv 4 group was generally of a higher standard than the previous courses they'd been on. As it was I ended up skiing in lv 4 and 5, I was probably a 4.5 in reality. The step up from lv 4 to 5 I found to be a big one, the biggest difference was the pace. No waiting around in lv 5 for anyone, it was pretty relentless! Unless I just wanted to do the lesson and no other skiing in the day I'd have to work on my fitness for next time as my legs were screaming!
My instructors were Bryan and Phil (owner of SW). Phil's philosophy matched my needs perfectly, he's not trying to teach people to demonstrate technique on the AT course, he's trying to teach people to ski and enjoy the mountain. Bryan was a bit more technical which suited me as I felt like I needed a level of progression before stepping up to the next level of group. I'd had little formal tuition before this course-which was a positive as things are kept as simple/basic as possible. When you're coming down a difficult slope you don't really want to be thinking of too many things is very true IMO. Phil is very much into using a 'skid' into controlling your speed, I always thought the word skid was a bit of a dirty word in ski circles, but the progression was to use the 'skid' to control your speed and then adapt this in the bumps and off piste-I was sceptical but quickly became a convert!
I'd tried to ski off piste before but once it got deep I quickly looked like a beginner again. We came to the top of a few off piste runs. At first I thought they were having a laugh-surely we're not going down there are we? Of course we were....... Taking what I'd learned on piste and applying this off piste I had a few light bulb moments and all of a sudden I seemed to be skiing competently off piste in deep snow. This isn't to say I didn't have my moments where I applied a bit too much edge/pressure or got caught out and thrown off balance but I got better as the week went on-progressing to doing off piste routes rather than just nipping of the side of the piste-AWESOME. And we had the conditions for it too, at times I found myself in waist deep powder. It was also great to ski with people who were of a similar level, as I have quite a few mates who are beginner/early intermediate standard then a couple who are instructors so two extremes.
The end result, I now feel I'm a much better skier for my Snoworks experience and much more of the mountain has been opened up to me. They've also instilled a healthy amount of respect in me too when off piste (they're very big on safety, doing transceiver training etc). Without a doubt the best weeks skiing I've ever had, at times you just had to stop and appreciate where you were on some of the off piste routes.
Non-skiing stuff
It was all very social able. There were couples, groups of mates and plenty of solo skiers. You've all got something in common so it's not difficult to get chatting. An area and table was reserved for Snoworks clients in the restaurant which helped getting to know everyone. In no time at all I'd got to know most people doing the course regardless of what group you were in. It was also easy to find people to ski with in free ski time before or after lessons. In the end I'd actually rather do a SW course than ski with a group of mates of mixed abilities! It will be strange on my next trip not having the focus of those daily lessons. A big positive for me is that I now know there's something out there for me that means I can ski without having to worry about finding friends from home to ski with. I'll definitely be returning next season, hopefully for at least 2 weeks!
Anyone in the same boat as me go for it you won't be disappointed.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Bene, Great post. As a Snoworks veteran (most recently on their Backcountry Access course in Mottaret), I think you've captured the feel of a Snoworks week very well. And you were clearly listening during Phil's sermons, as you are able to recount the key lessons of the gospel with complete accuracy!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Bene , A great and very informative post. Thanks !
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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A good write up cheers, what width skis were folk on?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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kitenski, Quite a few had there own the majority rented some Salomon Q98's from SW.
Nice skis!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Bene, I take it they are 98mm underfoot??
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kitenski, oh yes should have mentioned that! They do a 90and 105 in the Quest series too.
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How do they compare to the BBR that were all the rage a couple of years ago?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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AJQ, I've not skied the BBR's in any guise before, I always got the impression the bbr is a bit of a marmite ski. The Q's are more of a traditional design, I had the 188cm and for a 17st fatty I got plenty of float off piste. They never gona handle like a piste ski but they hold an edge we'll on piste and carve easily.
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I must say I'm quite impressed withe BBR's both on groomed and ungroomed/ powder. For me it is a great all mountain ski, could be a wee bit better on Ice though, guess I was spoilt with my Atomics in that regard.
Mine are 176 in length, 98 under foot, 147 at the tip, 110 at the tail so good float in the deep stuff and cuts through the slush; with a nice side cut for awesome carving on piste too with a 12m radius!!!! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Don't Snow works use the BBR , seem to remember a Promo vid where they were raving about them a couple of years ago?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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AJQ, They did but Q98's this season, Phil was still using his BBR's but said they were done.
I must get a go on the BBR's to see what they're like for myself.
I own a pair of my own Q98's. I thought about going for the 90 as I thought they're maybe a little more suited to standard European conditions but having a pair of more piste orientated skis feel I've got all bases covered with two pairs of skis. Came down Le Face in very wind blown icy conditions and the Q98's were fine, not something I'd like to repeat too often regardless of the skis I was using though in those conditions!
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I guess if Phil has got 2 whole seasons out of them then they were well tested. I will be on week 4 next month so a long way to go yet 
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You know it makes sense.
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I guess if Phil has got 2 whole seasons out of them then they were well tested. I will be on week 4 next month so a long way to go yet........
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Good review and consistent with my SW experience. I've a lot of time for PS as he puts a lot of thought and effort into the quality of the product and contributes to the debate. Personally not convinced on PS's philiophy re a more pragmatic less technical approach e.g skidding based on other experiences but understand that is right for many people. He does run a very professional operation and would certainly use again. It is just a question of personal preferences and what you are looking to get out of a ski course so believe it is a good idea to speak to different people and try other expereinces to find what is right for you.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| TTT wrote: |
| Personally not convinced on PS's philiophy re a more pragmatic less technical approach e.g skidding based on other experiences but understand that is right for many people.. |
Surely it's not just skid as a defacto move but skid if that's the easiest way of positioning/controlling yourself for the next thing. It's what real world skiers do when they come across something unfamiliar.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Not sure the Snoworks philosophy is as skid-based as TTT suggests. If there is a simple phrase to help people conceptualise all the elements, I'd say it is 'pushing snow'. Certainly pushing is the feature of the training that I recall the most. Repeat after me: "left ski, right ski; left ski..."
Skidding is an essential skill (try side-slipping an icy couloir without skidding!) And, without skidding, we'd all be skiing using only pure carved turns - whatever the angle of the slope and whatever the snow conditions.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I did a Snoworks course and didn't really "get" it.
My cross under turns did improve though.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Did not mean to incorrectly imply a pure skidding approach and clearly an essential skill in any case - my interpretation is its more just a different emphasis and its ultimately about personal preferences as opposed to right or wrong.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I enjoyed having the experience of two instructors. Bryan was more old school and got us thinking about different techniques, Phil was more get on with it. Had a guy from the highest group self demote himself like day as he was carrying a bit of an injury. He enjoyed the drills that we did as the highest group seemed to be pretty much a guided off piste week with little actual tuition.
I think for someone like me with limited formal tuition it worked very well not getting bogged down into thinking what technique was best suited to the conditions/terrain and just skiing. I did an afternoon with some guys who had basi lv 2 qualifications who were constantly asking technique based questions. I think for those who really like to analyse technique it may not be for them, hot the AT course anyhow. We did do some video footage/analysis, and whilst I wasn't expecting much I looked a bit more dynamic and better than expected!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Hi & Sorry for the resurrection of such an old thread, but @Bene, was the week you did the Half Day All Terrain or All Day All Terrain?
Thanks & Regards
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Sounds like the half day course as he mentioned skiing with other participants outside the structured lesson. I did a SW off-piste course and really enjoyed it although I cannot recollect grasping more technical skills that training with other organisations. I used it to ski with like minded folk as I was mate-less on that holiday. All good though.
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Thanks for the reply.
I did read that, but wasn't 100% sure.
Currently looking at a number of different operators including Snoworks, Freshtracks and All Mountain Performance etc. as in a similar situation where by the dynamic of the group I normally go with has changed since our last trip earlier this year.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I think you would enjoy the Snoworks. It is very Espace Killy orientated (no bad thing) though I like some variation. Saying that I am off to Val D with a friend in March. Did like the mid march week in La Tania though as I think Three Valleys has some awesome off-piste.
Oddly enough I am going alone on a Freshtracks trip to Flaine & to Chamonix with All Mountain Performance. The Flaine week had the option of a single room and booked flight/transport/chalet as separates for the Chamonix week which actually worked out a good price. All day off-piste weeks.
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Certainly Snoworks do look good.
Still early days and I'm going to do a lot more reading up on each, reviews etc. Also, I'll try and put together a price comparison from each operator including ski hire and lift passes.
Snoworks could be a great starting point and once I've cut my teeth with them I could possibly look at the others. The only thing that does appear at first glance is that Freshtracks through SCGB look cheaper, but this is at first glance. The ability levels with Snoworks seem to fit better, Freshtracks come across as very broad brush and the last thing I'd want to do is end up on a trip where I find myself in a group of a much higher ability and end up spoiling it for the rest of the group and importantly me.
If asked I say I'm Intermediate/Adventurous Intermediate (on a good day  ), but as Snoworks point out very much at the "Intermediate Plateau" so something like this sounds ideal for me to break out of this and I've always wanted to try and hopefully ski more off-piste.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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They have a very established 'core team'. Phil, Emma, Lee. In busy times, other 'A star' and trusted instructors are brought in of various ages - all ISTD. I think what you definitely won't get is any particular national system says do this...what you will get is 'essential skills' based upon snow and ski interface plus lots of enthusiasm from the instructor to challenge/push yourself from what you may believe is the right way is to ski based on body image positions from 'standard' ski instruction.
If you're on a particular course (lets say Race Carve) and the mountain / weather / and sheer number of other skiers is against you with your coach doubling/tripling up as the marketing/race course setter and instructor, ( that would be you Phil. S.) then you might leave thinking...well, hmm. A very difficult week that i'm gonna struggle to forget just before the official season opening.( it can happen unfortunately)...
The guy i shared with last time, on a previously SW particular booked course with his GF, upon arriving, due to eventual low numbers, they had to do another course with Emma which, in the end they thought was excellent. I expect all courses are subject to eventual numbers turning up - remember, people can and do book the very last minute! If you thinks the SW philosophy fits, go for it but choose if you can a likely time of year to do what you want to do.
But remember this, they can't do the skiing for you and go with an 'open mind' hehe...
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FAQ
