 Poster: A snowHead
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For the past 6/7 years, we have been visiting the Alps from Norfolk via car.
Got thinking yesterday while driving home, why don't more people drive?
Driving:
1. Assuming you live within 3 or 4 hours of the Channel, driving can be alot cheaper. Rough figures - £200 for Tunnel crossings, £240 for fuel and £150 for tolls - total - £590.
2. Only limit on what can be carried is the size of the vehicle. Also, as long as you packed it, you know it will arrive. 
3. Driving is easy on the French side, with more than one driver, the vehicle will keep moving.
4. Stay can be extended by a day each end of the visit.
Flying:
1. Car park charges at the airport, unless you are really lucky and live adjacent to a terminal.
2. Set a limit on what can be carried, whether it will arrive or not is up to the airline and not you.
3. Transfer times in and out of resort can be lengthy.
4. Limited to the times the transfer buses can get you into resort.
Hopefully someone that flies will fill in the "standard" charges for each of the above.
So, with that in mind, why do so many people insist on flying out?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It's a numbers game.
When our 4 kids skied with us, it was a no brainer. A 7 seater, 2 roof boxes and the 1250 miles each way flew by. Now that they all do their own thing, we fly. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Return flight for under £150. Door to door in under 6 hours. No contest.
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Here's my maths for 8 day trip 31st Dec.
Edinburgh - Geneva returns, 2 people = £227. Hand baggage only as we have the stuff in our apartment.
Airport Car parking = £74
Hire Car + fuel = £400 ish (Normally half this for a week)
Total fly = £701, takes 6-7 hours door to door.
When I drive in the summer.....
2,000 Miles fuel = £200
Tunnel crossing = £200
Tolls = £150
Hotel overnight. (It is 1,000 miles!) = £60
Total = £610, takes 24 - 30 hours door to door.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yep - if you've a family (or a largeish group), and are going for a week or more, a car might make sense. That doesn't mean it's the best option for everyone .
Wouldn't suit me:
- single traveller usually, so flying is much cheaper.
- Flying is much faster, allowing ski weekends. I did several very easily last year doing a full day of work on the Friday before heading to the airport, then in resort in time for drinks with friends on the Friday night, before skiing all day Saturday and Sunday, and flying back Sunday night. Am doing the same a few times this year That wouldn't be possible (to the Alps) with a car.
- let the plane take the strain! I love using public transport rather than driving in general, as I can get stuff done while someone else is transporting me. I only ever have time to read when I'm flying, or on a transfer bus!
- And the biggest reason for me - I don't own a car  Ok I'd buy one if it made sense again, but I like living in the centre of big cities - so plenty of public transport and ubers, and hire cars are pretty cheap any time I actually need one. Overall more economical currently than owning a car. (And hiring one for a week to drive down to the Alps would not be good value for money!)
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| GaryCantley wrote: |
Flying:
1. Car park charges at the airport, unless you are really lucky and live adjacent to a terminal.
2. Set a limit on what can be carried, whether it will arrive or not is up to the airline and not you.
3. Transfer times in and out of resort can be lengthy.
4. Limited to the times the transfer buses can get you into resort.
Hopefully someone that flies will fill in the "standard" charges for each of the above.
So, with that in mind, why do so many people insist on flying out? |
Oooh, just saw these!
1. or take the train (£3 for me) or a taxi (one today (bank holiday rates) was £22, uber would have been cheaper, but I just hopped in a black cab outside the station - 20 min drive home). Ok in Manchester the train is just over £4, and around £25 for a taxi (I'm saving money in Birmingham! Shame the airport is so bad...)
2. True - but I've never found the limit to be particularly onerous - did 3 weeks last year within the luggage allowance, including two pairs of skis and my offpiste gear (and several other 2 week trips)
3. Or can be really quick - depends on resort. (I usually go to Chamonix, so 1hr/1hr15mins. plenty of other similar distance/time)
4. Not a problem with large resorts from main airports (it's very rare that I'd be in Geneva airport for more than 45mins before leaving on a transfer). All comes down to where you choose to go.
Again, all depends on you, and where you are going, where you live, how much you need to pack etc. There's no hard and fast rule for everyone.
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Your making the assumption people want to ski in France.....
Austria is a sodding long drive. This year We're flying into Munich Friday night to Friday night and taking the train (quick overnight at cheap airport hotel) will be skiing by lunchtime on Saturday and get 6 1/2 days skiing in.
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So, i get some Altitude Mountain Sickness (AMS) when i fly with a first sleep ( over 1000m) which ruins my first day of six ( if one week).
If i drive and then sleep even up to and slightly over 2000m this doesn't happen.
If i drive i can choose to take much kit and drive to different ski area's. Last year but one, i skied Hochzeiger ( where you say! - actually a small but really varied small Austrian resort), Pitztal glacier, Obergurgl, Solden. None of these area's were more than 1:10mins away from where i was staying. Most were within 40 mins.
B+B ( with breakfast fit for king) Euro 30 ( before Christmas 2015). Abroad for 15 days ( 2 days travelling) 11 days skiing, 2 days sightseeing ( one through previous days heavy fall).
Driving just gives options - i have had too many 6 days ski trips all fall apart with first day ams and some other 'event' reducing the week even more.
I actually enjoy wintering the van with all the kit, all the low temps liquids / oil etc - checking it all over and hopefully being prepared.
Obviously it costs more money but it's not masses more for the freedom ( i believe) it gives me. But yes, it can become a headache if problems arise. I just appreciate the independence too much i guess.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Matt1959, I do same journey but for me I prefer car take out the maths as we are 4 I can bring things for apartment with me, have a decent car while over here. My car maths are same as you, I budget £600 for a return journey which includes a premier inn
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@Jonny996, Last time the suspension broke on the heavily loaded car before we got to Berwick upon Tweed. Couldn't get any French garage to touch it and so drive 3,000 miles sitting on the rear bump stops. Nearly crippled us.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Mollerski wrote: |
It's a numbers game.
When our 4 kids skied with us, it was a no brainer. A 7 seater, 2 roof boxes and the 1250 miles each way flew by. Now that they all do their own thing, we fly. |
This sums it up, sometimes it makes sense to do one thing but people just want to do it thier way.
As a single traveller that lives rurallly I'm screwed either way.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Depends quite a lot on where you live and how long your holiday is for, living in Scotland adds an extra days drive and whereas I have done it out of necessity in the past I don't really enjoy two days driving at either end of the holiday and for a week I would not consider it.
Usually fly and rent a car, more relaxing and maintains flexibility , if I lived in the South of England I would probably drive more.
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You know it makes sense.
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Over last 30 years of driving. Car total failure twice - vehicle left and re patriated by manafactureres warranty. No cost to me. We flew got taxis hire cars etc.
Two snow incidents both delaying us around 3 hours.
Worst ever delay this Christmas Eve 3.5 hours delay at Eurotunnel in Kent - instead of 12 hours door to door ended up 16 hours ):
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Hour's rural drive to Manchester airport ( or bit longer to several others) vs hours and hours and hours of busy motorway terror and probable queues down to Chunnel, then hours and hours and hours of driving, maybe also in snow, in old (hopefully reliable, but...) on continent, all by one person ( unless emergency) - who then has to ski or board for the next x days, tired and aching, then repeat journey in reverse...
Believe me, I hate flying and hate airports and charter flight times and TO transfers - but no way the drive is do-able or worthwhile for less than several weeks.
Do drive to Scotland - and that's a knackering 8 hours of mostly motorway, far from fun quite often!
The main issue is really driving in the UK, I reckon, not once in mainland Europe.
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Poster: A snowHead
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the two extra days skiing makes it for me, I would fly for a long weekend or maybe if I do a second week, but with only one trip planned I want as much time skiing as possible. 2 of us driving, 3 of us in car with 6 pairs of skis and plenty food and wine etc.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Driving is so boring. Plus I don't own a car as we live in the city centre. In our case, plenty of people drive 7.5 hours from Stockholm to Åre. But 1 hour flight, and 3.5 hours door to door would be preferable to me even if we owned a car. Night train was best, though the departure/arrival times got worse 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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We drive because we like it. We leave early on the Friday, and get south of Paris, Reims, or Troyes this year. If we fly, Bristol airport is a shocker to get to, you have to leave home stupid o'clock to get there two hours before so you can take your boots off and empty your bags etc. I mostly arrived late afternoon early evening, if self catering getting basic stuff for breakfast etc.
In the car, we stop off and do a big fun shop, getting stuff we don't know (sometimes we don't like) all part of the fun.
I do miss the excitement of the airport and flight but half term is hell! I know it's the same on the road but some how it just seems easier.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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This is too complex a question to answer in a simple response. Sometimes we drive, sometimes we fly, but I have really enjoyed reading what other people say.
Generally I would say it is significantly cheeper to drive than fly, but it does take a bit longer than flying, but overall not much longer. It is undoubtably more tiring. anyway some comments on what otehrs have said:
@GaryCantley, to cut your fule cost from £240 get a diesel car and fill up in France. It should cost less than £180
@fixx, Yes I agree Manchester is a less expensive than Birmingham but it is a dump of an airport.
@Jonny996, I budget £400 for the return journey to Les Arcs.
@T Bar, Unless I was going a few weeks I wouldn't dream of driveing from Scotland.
@boredsurfin, Only a 3.5 hour delay at the tunnel, not too bad then.
@fixx, Have you not heard of talking books and pod casts. I listen to them all the time.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Having read some of the replies I also think it comes down to the car you are driving, driving a large new automatic car with adaptive cruise makes the drive much easier & iPads in back with films keeps kids happy
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As above.
Would not do it is a mark 2 escort.
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I'm intrigued by the converse, I.e that so many people drive and implicitly attach such a low value to their time. By flying I gain an extra 12 hours of my life, which equates to either more time skiing or more time doing something that is inherently more useful, productive or pleasurable that staring at the French motorway. City, Heathrow and Gatwick all have 7-8pm flights to Geneva that get me into bed by midnight the same day, well rested to ski the next morning. Same on the way home on Sundays.
Both transportation methods have their downsides (traffic jams, airport queues, lost luggage, breakdowns etc.) but for me it's the simple time tradeoff. Even for 2-3 week Easter trips when we debate driving, it always comes back to the extra 2 productive days we gain by flying.
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@snowdave, Driving from home to Les Arcs is 14 to 16 hours , flying 8 to 10 hours, 6 hours difference each way. So, yes it is 12 hours on the holiday in total. Not really a big deal in my opinion. In fact I calculate I have spent more time watching adverts on TV in a year than this. Is there a bigger waste of time than watching adverts on TV?
If I leave work at 17:00 it is not possible to get a flight that night, so the earliest I can get to Les Arcs by flying is about lunch time the next day (I do cheat and take an extra half day's holiday though). If I drive then I can be there mid morning. Similarly on the way back - leave at 16:00 and get a flight I will get home for 2:00 the next morning. Or I can leave later and drive non stop. Of course my wife and I share the driving so a fair proportion of that travel time is sleeping. The rest is listening to talking books or podcasts
In my view if you have diven all the way to Gatwick you may as well continue to the resort. You have done the hard bit of the drive.
BTW, I drive to get that extra 2 productive days for holidays of a week or more, but for weekends I fly and take the extra leave from work.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@johnE, if driving gets you more skiing time, why don't you drive for weekends?
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| Quote: |
It is undoubtably more tiring.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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as others have said, it is a numbers/days away game. last 2 family trips we drove, as gives us much more flexibility and reduces the cost significantly due to premium flight costs. but when it was just me and a colleague going away for a 4 day trip mid march, we flew and then hired a car, as the costs were split 50/50.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Son is currently sitting in Turin airport en route for Glasgow via AMS with weather delays meaning he'll probably miss his connecting flight.
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Still in Turin
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You know it makes sense.
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Like many people I drive with the family and fly with my mates.
Driving through Europe down to the Alps is great fun. Kids in the back with their iPads, overnight stay in a hotel and a few stops when (and where) we feel like it. Whilst the car does sit on the chalet driveway for most of the holiday it is there if we need it...picking up skis, tired kids from ski school, shopping etc. Plus topping up on French wine on the way home...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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If you think driving to Austria is bad try driving to USA or Canada. Takes ages I imagine and it's very hard to find details of the ferris anywhere!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@GaryCantley, Fatique, Tiredness kills
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think quite a lot depends on where you are in the uk relative to the channel ports or tunnels. Here in the north I'm a short taxi from my local airport but we have friends who moved to Ashford and its inveribly at least a
6hr drive to them, depending on the A1/M1/M25. There's no way we could do that and the drive from Calais to the Alps in one day so a typical 7 day holiday means taking Monday or Friday off- or at least leaving Friday evening and battling with the traffic - to still allow a full weeks skiing. With a small child (6yr) the flying journey, although still 6-8hr door to door at least it broken into parts and much easier to entertain him than a 15hr car trip.
The cost is interesting. I think flying looks shockingly expensive because you pay it all in one go, whereas driving each toll or tank or petrol seems much less. But the return journey from my house to Val disere is 1850miles. That's 15% of my annual mileage in one trip, with all the costs of wear and tear etc. Using my work mileage allowance that comes out at roughly £850. Add in tolls and tunnel and the plane seems a lot more affordable.
Finally for me it's the safety and fatigue. In my younger days we used to drive the uni minibuses from Yorkshire to the highlands on a Friday evening for climbing or skiing. Looking back I think we were daft doing those mega drives and it was lucky we never had a fatigue accident. And as I get older I find driving much more exhausing. So best case scenario I arrive in the Alps knackered for the next day, worse case I'm driving tired, on mountain roads, in the snow, on the wrong side.....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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^^^^ Yep, I was sure I had put that there were more than one driver but I hadn't.
I've previously done it in one hit being the only driver but wouldn't these days.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@TommyJ, For me the 2,000 mile round trip is about £200 in fuel. My employer reimburses me 20p per mile to cover fuel plus running costs, which would be £400 for 2,000 miles. I think that the 'everything' figure, including insurance, depreciation is about 40p per mile.
And it takes me 3-4 hours to get as far south as Yorkshire!
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We like driving because,
A) We treat our skis with more respect than baggage handlers
B) My wife makes a better lunch than the airlines
C) Great scenery for the last few hours
D) Most resorts have decent wine shops or supermarkets so can stock up
E) Chablis is ideal distance for loo/fuel stop on return journey so more wine purchases on the way back. Probably save around £200 per trip on the cost of buying comparable wine over here.
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Both is best. Okay I get mega air miles but if not it would be
Choose place to go.....
Book flights.
Or look for somewhere cheap to fly at a convenient time. EG Venice.
Hire car
Drive 1/2 way in evening. get up early and be at the slopes first thing. One day extra skiing with many options.
BA or KLM from Scotland (or easy jet from elsewhere) about £200 including an extra bag or ski bag (£65 with avios).
Car hire for a week £120 (some less and some more mine is £280 for 12 days but only £60 with avios)
Hotel in advance on hotels.com is cheap.
If two or three people are staying, you can offset the cost of the car hire with the money you will save by being on the edge the major town. Walkable to the pub/restaurant but not on a ski bus route is really cheap. Mind you, by hiring a car I've got a hotel in Cortina that is not on the transfer route but is ski in/out slope side and you can get a room there for £45 a night. So having a hire car can pay off.
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I based my back of beer mat calculations (I wish I was in a pub!) in my employers allowance of 40-45p a mile - which as you point out covers depreciation, insurance etc. I guess that whilst it does cost 40-45p a mile to run a car I don't know how cumulative that is - ie how much extra in the long run an extra 1800mile drive a year really costs.
And if course the size of your party really affects the driving vs flying. We're a family a three so this tilts the balance towards flying. Even allowing for a bigger car driving a family of 5 is much more efficient.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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None of you guys heard of the train then?
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@Arctic Roll, according to Rome2Rio, travelling by train would take 16 hours, involve 6 changes and cost £450 return.
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FAQ
