 Poster: A snowHead
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Just a note of warning re my experience (or lack of it) with the above transfer companies.
In my opinion they're a bunch of cowboys!
Two days before my departure from Chamonix I made an online booking with "Chamonix Express" for a transfer to Geneva. I was asked all the normal stuff: Departure time, resort hotel, address and phone number, mobile number etc etc. Then I was taken to the credit card page, so assumed my booking was confirmed, entered my card details and got a message saying I would be contacted. Over 24 hours later I got an email thanking me for my booking - but unfortunately they were fully booked!!! By the time I got their email, all the other Chamonix companies were also fully booked! They didn't even provide a phone number for one to check bookings!
Dismissing the online route as a result of my experience, I phoned around and finally found a company: "ALPY BUS" in Geneva who said they could do my transfer, They asked me for my details and Hotel name (with which they said they were familiar) took my number and told me that I would be picked up at 17:40 outside the hotel. At 17:50 they hadn't turned up, so I called them - they told me that they had no record of my booking and would call me back in a couple of minutes. I got no call just a text message 15 minutes later informing me that it was too late for the bus to return to collect me! At this point they refused to answer my calls!
Subsequent calls and emails to both companies were ignored!
Talk about unprofessionalism
None of these guys could organise a wee wee up in a brewery!!!
Fortunately a friend in Chamonix had a car and gave me a lift to the airport or I would have been buggered!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skymole, welcome to 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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..........or use them, but book earlier than 48 hours before hand I suppose.
Or ring them if you're leaving it late.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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skymole, Welcome to We have used Alpybus several times with no hitch -maybe we were just lucky!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hi Skymole,
Sorry to hear about your experience with these companies. Although just to give an alternative story, I was taken to/from Geneva to Chamonix by alpybus with a party of 9 and it went without a hitch, although as pointed out by a previous poster, we did book well in advance.
Mooncat.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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skymole, welcome, truly terrible service, thanks for the warning. I had two pals that worked for another transfer co. and the tales they told were similar, folk all over the alps stuck in airports and resorts.
I guess the moral is book early and get confirmation and dont believe a word they say, thats if they have the courage to even phone.
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quite apart from the potentially libellous (or is it slanderous) danger to SHs of unsubstatiated rumour like this...
We have had around 45 groups (at a guess) using and being delighted with Alpybus. I know a despatcher for another firm who would be horrified if their reputation was not perfect.
the companies I refer to are not just a ski bums with a vans but thriving businesses.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I used them recently...just rocked up at the airport, asked if they had room, departed pretty well much on time...the other plane was late so I figured they would send another bus...which is why they could squeeze me in. Quick banter with the other passengers and few tips and hints offered as they had never been to Chamonix before
The driver didn't know Chamonix too well..it was mid Jan... but we found my hotel between us easily enough , dropped me off and I tipped him.
Chamonix is difficult with public transport but you try getting up the hill to other resorts after 5:00pm and back to the airport for a 07:00 flight...its car-hire or nothing.
Fair enough if they didn't perform the service they charged for, but pretty satisfied and I'd use them again, no question.. I am glad they run these ad-hocs type services...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I've had good experiences with www.3vt.co.uk and www.transfer-intelligence.com and www.altibus.com doing transfers from Geneva to Val Thorens transfers. www.a-t-s.com did as described above by Chamonix Express (i.e. apparently took a full booking but then cancelled), which is irritating but non-critical as long as it happens long enough in advance...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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So - yes booking further in advance may help - if you have that luxury! However, I work in the computer and web industry and have never come across a booking system which is unable to confirm a booking immediately, let alone until 24 hours later - Databases of booking information feed webforms and auto generate responses - it couldn't be simpler!! Furthermore one should not be given the impression that a booking is confirmed and then asked to enter payment details if this is not the case!!
Chamexpress's booking form asked for 3 points of contact - why should it take so long for them to respond - particularly in relation to a last minute booking
Neither company had the courtesy either to return my calls, emails or texts!
In the case of Alpy Bus they gave me full confirmation by phone, then just didn't turn up!
In reply to "David Murdoch's" comment - Telling the truth is not libellous!!!
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David Murdoch, Valid criticism does not represent defamation.
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You know it makes sense.
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moot_point, a) who (apart fromskymole) knows whether the criticism is true, b) is the phrase "a bunch of cowboys" necessarily "valid criticism"?
If I ran a website, I wouldn't put posts like the thread opener on it, but then I'm a pusilanimous sod.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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richmond, There exists a difference between verity and validity. Of course, to be valid the original poster's claims need first to be an accurate description of his experience(s), however, in my mind, validity is something quite different. Assuming his claims are true (which, rather than pusillanimous, possibly makes me naive) they could reasonably represent valid criticism.
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Poster: A snowHead
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So yes - As I know the criticism to be true, for me to make such criticism is not libellous... The target is free to dispute the criticism and if found to be false can substantiate libel. With regard to the comment "bunch of cowboys" I admit that it is collective and general, however the term is suggestive of unprofessionalism. I feel justified in this opinion for the following reasons:
1. With reference to Chamespress, there is no excuse to giving you the impression that you have a confirmed booking unless this is the case, and even less so to then request credit card payment details further consolidating your impression of a confirmed booking.
2. In my opinion a professional organisation would automatically inform you of lack of availability on the website at the time of booking and not subject you to a 24 hour notification delay. Consider this sort of system in relation to booking a flight!!
3. Alpy Bus verbally confirmed a contract with me, this was breached, presumably due to either an inadequate booking system, human error or overbooking.
4. When I contacted Alpy Bus 10 minutes after the arranged pickup time, they promised to phone me back! Instead I received a text message probably about 10 - 15 minutes later. They failed to answer any subsequent calls from me.
5. I contacted both companies by either email or sms to express my dissatisfaction and received no reply, professional customer service should dictate a response to any dissatisfaction in product or service.
Maybe others think this is an acceptable way to run a service business, but I definately do not!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skymole, My first sentiment regards Chamexpress was to advise booking earlier, especially as I used the company last week with no problems, however, having thought about it, if the company's website is ostensibly prepared to accept your booking, but then the company fails to deliver, it is wholly unacceptable. Luckily, you had a pal to drive you to the airport.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Glad you see my point..
..I'm sure loads of people have had ok experiences, as you say i was lucky, however it could potentially have left me seriously out of pocket.. I hear taxi's (if you can get them in cham) can cost 300 - 400 euros! Although the whole transfer thing pissed me off it didn't detract from an truly awesome couple of weeks with some wicked weather!!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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skymole, I see your point too, and indeed feel your pain. A failed transfer could be ludicrously expensive; we've relied on them a couple of times, and God knows how much we'd have had to pay if they'd let us down.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Elizabeth B, fair point, but doesn't seem to be the case here.
My point was really to take issue with David Murdoch categorising the complaint as 'unsubstantiated rumour'. Unless one has documentary evidence (and publishes it), pretty much ALL comments +ve and -ve on this site could be classed as 'unsubstantiated' I'm less sure whether rumour is applicable.
Since the forum is open to all (who register) and therefore offers an automatic 'right of reply', (and as usually happens, within 12 hours of someone posting 'XYZ company are cowboys', three others will come along and say 'well they sorted us out good and proper'  ) I feel it is a reasonable use of the forum to publish details of poor service.
(of course if the details are inaccurate or just invented that's a different story).
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Thanks everybody for your welcomes!!
I understand the initial suspicions but assure you this is not the case!
I actually registered when I was told about a fellow easyjet passenger who made a post about claims against easyjet! We should both have been on the same cancelled flight last sunday.. I've had a bit of a time of it when it comes to transport!!! This is why I couldn't make much of an advanced transfer booking. On the upside I got a couple of extra days riding in and some great conditions 
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| Hoppo wrote: |
| www.a-t-s.com did as described above by Chamonix Express (i.e. apparently took a full booking but then cancelled), which is irritating but non-critical as long as it happens long enough in advance... |
I think ATS is Andy Cleaver who pretty much invented all this personal transfer service having seen a gap in the market with low cost flights. I used to use Andy a lot in the late 90s and he was excellent at getting us out of holes. It worked well when he focussed on Cham then the Chablais resorts but seems to have lost the quality as he expanded across Europe with third party firms.
From personal experience it is a business that is very hard to scale and keep standards high.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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davidof, that's the impression I got. I must admit to worrying the same thing about Transfer-Intelligence (who 3vt recommended to me) - they seem to offer transfers across Europe, but they gave a good service.
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One thing I have heard about some of the transfer companies which may tie in with my experience with Chamexpress is: That they take the booking and wait to see if they get enough other bookings to make the trip worthwhile, if they don't, they just send you a last minute email claiming they are fully booked. Hence the last minute notification. This way (particularly in respect of the cheaper companies) they are never in a position of sending a minibus out with only one or two passengers. - Be interesting to know if anyone has been on a cheap transfer with only a couple of passengers??
Another thing I was told by my friends in Cham, when, after my rejection by chamexpress most of the local companies phones just diverted to voicemail, was that they knew most of the drivers and that they were out on the seasonaires bar crawl/pissup (the modified 3 legged race) and were taking the next day off...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ATS have been very reliable in Serre Chevalier this winter.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
the only way around it is a confirmed hire car
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...like the chap we rescued at Geneva airport who had a confirmed hire car... but a driving license in his office back in the UK!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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THIS IS A FORMAL CLARIFICATION AND RESPONSE TO THE POSTING BY SKYMOLE.
Chamexpress care about the service we provide to many thousands of satisfied clients each winter season. We also care about what is said about us. Especially when it is NOT true. Especially when the sole aim appears to be not to educate others, but to defame us, with the sole intention to cause us loss and damage. We find the postings made by Skymole to be both false and malicious.
Skymole has not only posted on here, but also on Tripadvisor.com
So, for the benefit of all this forums readers let us clarify the situation:
Mr H (Skymole) submitted his online booking form at 22.39hrs (10.39pm) on the 7th April 2008 for travel on the 9th April.
The message given on the screen following the submission of a booking form informs that 'you will be contacted shortly'. It does not say that your booking is confirmed! It does not say that payment has been taken, or your credit card charged.
Our offices are closed overnight between 18.00hrs. and 09.00hrs. And also over French lunchtime 12.00-15.00 hrs.
An email was sent by Chamexpress to Mr H (Skymole) at 15.04hrs on the 8th April informing him that his requested airport transfer was already fully booked. (We are very popular due to our low-fare).
Therefore, it only took Chamexpress 3hrs 5 minutes of working time to respond. And if office hours are not taken into consideration, approximately 15-16 hours to respond. Mr H (Skymole) is therefore, factually incorrect when he claims it took more than 24 hours.
Mr H (Skymole) has admitted that he 'ASSUMED' that by entering his credit card details his seat was confirmed. There is nothing on the booking process or chamexpress website to give this impression. Quite the opposite. It states that you will receive a ticket in a PDF format for you to download and print out.
Mr H (Skymole) has provided no evidence that between 22.39 on the 7th April and 15.04 on the 8th April when our reply was sent, that ALL the other transfer companies were fully booked. It is the opinion of Chamexpress that these companies were already fully booked, like ourselves.
It should be remembered that Mr H (Skymole) was trying to book at short notice, less than 48 hours before his required transfer, and outside of office hours.
Mr H (Skymole) states that subsequent telephone calls to Chamexpress were ignored. There is no facility on the Chamexpress telephone lines to leave a message (for the very reason to ensure that none would be missed). Therefore, Mr H (Skymole) is again factually incorrect. It is impossible for us to 'ignore' a message that can never be left.
Mr H (Skymole) gives the impression that he sent emails prior to his departure that were also ignored. We received one email, and one email only, from Mr H (Skymole) on the 10th April - Once he had already arrived home.
Mr H (Skymole) said in his email:
'So why did it take you 24hrs to let me know! Your website gave the impression that the booking had been made! By the time you let me know everyone else was fully booked'.
(The fact that he gained a place with Alpybus -although it subsequently went wrong - rather defeats his last comment)
With such limited information in the email - i.e. no transfer date, time, name, contact number, etc. we had not been able to trace the booking he was referring too. In fact, he has given more information in the Tripadvisor posting than he gave us! This has enabled us to trace his information.
Mr H (Skymole) has stated as fact that 'They're a bunch of cowboys'. This is both defamatory and untrue.
Mr H (Skymole) has stated as fact that Chamexpress 'couldn't organise a wee wee in a brewery'. This is both defamatory and untrue.
Mr H (Skymole) has no experience of the scheduling and operation of Airport Transfer services by Chamexpress as he has never travelled with us. The 8 people that did travel on the transfer that he requested arrived at the airport in good time and without incident.
What is to be learnt from Mr H's experience is not to leave your airport transfer arrangements to the last minute as places book up early, and quickly.
Once you have your flight and accommodation details you should book your transfers straightaway. You should also book your return transfer back to the airport at the same time you book your arrival transfer. This avoids stressful, last-minute, panics.
All the Chamonix based transfer companies will accept advance bookings, many months in advance. We are now accepting bookings for the entire summer.
I trust the above information has helped to clarify the circumstances for all readers of this forum and we look forward to continuing to be of service to you, and the many thousands, of other people who we provide airport transfers to every season.
Regards.
Andrew
Chamexpress
ADDENDUM:
1. Since we posted the same above response on www.tripadvisor.com Skymole has posted the following admission:
Skymole has now stated that he 'never said that messages to chamexpress were ignored'.
However, above he has written: Subsequent calls and emails to both companies were ignored! Talk about unprofessionalism.
He has tried to defend the use of the term 'cowboy' as meaning 'unprofessional'. We interpret it as meaning that we are untrustworthy and rip people off, and do not provide the service.
2. An impartial, independant computer expert from the USA has made the following comments in response:
Greetings,
I have no sides to take here never having used chamexpress nor do I know the user skymole. I do offer these observations, on what has got to be the biggest discussion yet on the Chamonix forum. Just for some background, I own a computer consulting company in the USA (specialize in large scale databases and online systems), have an MBA from an Ivy school, and travelled to asia and europe many times.
I went through the chamexpress screens just for giggles. It is obvious that this is not a 'real-time' booking screen and does not go directly into a 'database' as Skymole might suggest. It is more of an email machine (you can view the code), and after entering your information, it responds with 'Your order has been sent and we will contact you shortly.' Clearly, the 'booking' is not guaranteed and neither is your credit card charged instantly (it cannot be - it's not a real time transaction).
HOWEVER, having booked many many things in France over the past few years - the way Chamexpress booking works is EXACTLY how most orgnizations do business in France. Even when I book with a large outfit like Best Western hotel chain, booking online is not real-time, and it has to be confirmed by a series of emails.
Skymole write like this is something new. But chamexpress 'online' booking is pretty much normal for France.
3. It is interesting to note that Skymole does not complain on these forums that Easyjet cancelled his flight! However, just because we were fully booked - he's attacking us!
Let's get a few things absolutely clear - for the benefit of all:
* We, like most Chamonix transfer businesses are a small company. It is run by myself and my wife, who now live in France for a better quality of life.
* We work 16 hours, every day, during the 4.5 month winter season. Not just when the telephone lines are open. We are not off skiing all the time! (if only!).
* We currently provide the cheapest, and most reliable way of getting from Geneva to Chamonix, and back again.
* We only charge 25 Euros for every seat. Almost half the price of the other transfer companies.
* We operate a scheduled service. This means even if there is only 1 person booked on the bus. If you have a confirmation/ticket you will be transported!
* We are not perfect, because we are human.
However, we offer a great value, and reliable, low-fare transfer service to thousands of people each season.
4. Skymole has now posted the following on tripdvisor.com
My main issues were:
1. Through lack of clarity - I was given the impression was that I had a confirmed booking. It should have been made clear before the payment screen, that the booking (even after providing credit card info) was dependent on confirmation.
2. I received no response to my email.
It also has to be said at this point that my main gripes were with Alpy Bus, who did actually give me an unrefutable verbal confirmation, failed to call me back as promised, and responded to none of my calls after this time.
Summary:
To us this seems like quite a significant retracting of what he originally said about Chamexpress.com. I am sure that the sensible members of this forum will reach their own conclusions.
With regard to point 1. We are aware that this can be improved and will always take onboard constructive criticism or suggestions. With regard to point 2. Skymole (Mr H.) has chosen to take his grievance out into the public domain. Therefore, we believe it is only right for us to respond to defend ourselves in the public domain. However, we have respected his personal privacy and not identified him, in accordance with data protection legislation. However, we do have his home address and contact details on file.
Best regards.
Andrew
www.chamexpress.com
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Even before Chamexpress response I was about to write that I did encounter many website accepting a booking "pending confirmation", which usually comes with the next 24 hrs. The last such occasion being a booking for a campsite this summer.
It is usually made clear that the client will be contacted when everything is confirmed.
The mishap with Aplyubus is different though... Especially if money was exchanged..
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think that Chamexpress would have done better to maintain a dignified silence (although I have sympathy with their position), especially as the real problem seemed to be with Alpy Bus. Like their lunch hour, though.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Personally I think it is invaluable to get personal views on various companies from
It is usually clear from the post and responses whether this was an isolated example of bad service or the usual experience. I can then judge whether I would use the company concerned.
I have made my thoughts on certain companies clear here and elsewhere - often positive - sometimes not - which I hope have helped others.
I have however always tried to report the facts and not make any general comments - although I can understand that it is very easy to do so in the heat of the moment.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Sorry, but I think Chamexpress has every right to defend themselves.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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My 5 year old son and I had a booking with Alpybus from GVA to Chamonix for a 3 day trip (his first to try out skiing, in case he hated it, before shelling out for the whole family trip) - I booked via email and had confirmation by return for our Tuesday arrival and Friday departure. All was in place and I actually queried that it WAS OK and confirmed, as there was nothing on their website timetable for Tuesdays - "Yes, all confirmed, we'll meet you in Geneva". 6 weeks later and the day before our 7.00 am flight out to GVA, I got an email saying 'Sorry, we don't operate on Tuesday - it's our day off!". No assistance was given despite the circumstances and their written confirmation of a booking, and I spent the rest of the day phoning every transfer company I could find, to track down an alternative. We did find one - much more expensive but at least they turned up. Then - to add insult to injury - Alpybus phoned me on my mobile at 10 pm on our last night, asking did we want to confirm that they were picking us up and taking us to GVA!  There are two sides to every story, and I expect that most bookings do go smoothly, but my experience means I'm unlikely to sing their praises and I don't really see how they can have forgotten that they don' t operate on a Tuesday!
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Welcome to snowHeads Chamexpress, it is always good to hear the other side of the complaint and I too think you had every right to, and should have, put the record straight as you see it. As you say, we can then make up our own minds.
I hope you stick around the forum
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Chamexpress, you shouldn't take card details if you're not confirming a booking and you should not keep French Patiserrie hours running an online taxi company, but who am i to tell you your business?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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red 27,
Taking card details is a fairly standard practice as far as I can tell. He appears to be running a transfer company not a 24 hour taxi service, have you tried getting hold of a lot of travel companies out of hours?
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FAQ
However, I feel that phrases such as "Don't use these people" and "They're a bunch of (insert derogatory term here)'s", especially when SHOUTED, are ultimately counter-productive. If you've had a bad (or good!) experience, just tell it like it is - the truth is the truth, and if you have an opinion just make clear it's an opinion. Then we can all sleep more easily (if not at altitude 
).
