 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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No worse than the others in the piece.
For example, whilst lift passes may have increased 42% in Japan, the absolute cost is still far below many of the countries on that list.
However, glance readers will assume that Japan is the sevond most expensive country in the ski world when it isn't
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There is no writing, it's just -headless- calculating.
As so often these days
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You would think that they could at least get their meaningless calculations correct. The cost of the lift pass in Les Crosets will be exactly the same as in Champery, at least for PDS coverage...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Wonder what Hemel is.
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I started reading it on the tube this morning and turned over within 10 secs. Complete crap.
But then Telegraph has become terrible over last year. Between Brexit trash stories and trump you might as well buy the Daily Mail. Terrible.
I know one of the journalists there and asked him. He blamed the internet age and targets journalists are given to print stories which had increased because of the fast moving pace of internet news versus print.
Glad it's free on line.
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But . . .
There is frequent discussion on Snowheads about resort kilometres, and frequent mentions (boasting?) of kilometres skied.
The cost of lift passes do seem to vary a lot, sometimes for no obvious reason
I bet many have done the calculation of dividing price of lift pass by piste kilometers.
And now Helen Coffey has written it up.
Not so daft really.
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But Helen Coffey's article deadline clearly prevented here from visiting a Swiss supermarket or a Swiss restaurant.....
Or she just assumes that skiers don't eat etc?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Langerzug,
They stay in fully "expensed" chalets.
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I thought, like most "lists" it was intersting for a few seconds. However a few gems are there for example "Due to the different exchange rates between the pound and the Swiss franc and the pound and the euro, lift passes for French resorts in the Portes du Soleil such as Morzine are currently up to £60 more expensive. " needs more investigation.
I then clicked on the The ultimate ski holiday packing list link and realy had a good laugh. I think it is meant to be funny. Of the 14 essential items I only pack 8, but it fails to mention a hat. Of the stuff for the mountain I only wear the knee supports. Of the stuff for the resort I have none prefering to wear my approach trainers, (who wears "normal gloves" - surly they must be evening dress gloves). And is "deep heat" really important, I thought it disappeared in the 70s.
Would anyone actually pay for such rubbish?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Anyway, they seem to be using the now-discredited km totals rather than the real km totals... so it's not surprising that Austria, for example, doesn't make the list, because their resorts now publicise the real kms (whereas French resorts, for example, don't). Portes du Soleil does not have 650km of piste.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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What, @Pyremaniac, does the PdS have?
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Has an agreement on piste length been reached? top to bottom? as a racer would do a piste? If you use my useless meanderings PDS probably has about 1650km of piste.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Jonpim, I have never heard of anyone doing the calculations until now. I have clearly missed the fun. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Jonpim, I agree that people like to think about and talk about things like this but I reckon just about any 3 snowHeads at a bar could beat that article for accuracy, even after a few! OK, we're not looking for exactitude here but that writer isn't even in the ball park!
Obviously, the whole premise of the item is off from the start, as paying twice as much for your pass for it to include >twice as many lifts/pistes does not equate to 'better value': after all, U can only ever be on one lift at a time and you don't ski twice as far or for twice as long because there is twice the distance available. That's like a cab charging U twice as much to get home because he also has France on his satnav.
Even then though, just using her criteria, straight off the top of my head: 1300km of Dolomiti Superski @ 287€ = £260 = 20p/km
I wouldn't be surprised if the Tirol card trounces that too.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@admin,
But you can't get a weekly Tirol card can you?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'm very confused...
If they are allowing PDS to be split into different areas for one set of KM and price then why aren't there more combines area passes on the list??
The Salzburger Super card has 2790km for €265 which makes it €0.09 per KM. (but apparently no Austrian areas made the cut... even though Ski Amade is €279.50 for 760km making it €0.32 per km so leading the pack.)
I'm sure there is some deep technical reason to all this that I am missing!
There's no way you could cover any of those totals in 6 days anyhow and you need to be split between resort areas.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thinking about it wouldn't km of lift be more meaningful. I went to Soldeau in Andora once and at first glance there appeared lots of km of piste, but once on the snow I discovered that a lot of these pistes were actually the same piste split up with snow fences.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| musher wrote: |
@admin,
But you can't get a weekly Tirol card can you? |
Can you not? - I don't know. I am given to believe Austria has a great deal going for it in ski terms but there are snowHeads who know more about it than I.
Morning flangesax 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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[edit]
| Quote: |
There's no way youObv not including @admin and his super-human abilities could cover any of those totals in 6 days anyhow and you need to be split between resort areas.
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[/spoiler]
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| Pruman wrote: |
| Wonder what Hemel is. |
Mt. Hemels length is listed as 160m, so at £39.20 for a day pass, 6 days, *whirring sound* Comes out at £1,470 per kilometre. Which sounds pricey.
But...
If you factor in that the main slope is often broken down into two often, i.e. clear piste and bump course, slalom course or jumps'n'boxes, you could argue you could double the length down into 2, AND add in the 100m or so bunny slope on the right, that could increase the length up to about 420m so thats a much more favourable £560 per kilometre....
But...
Lets take into account that HH has some unique climatic conditions working against it... so lets extrapolate that and say that they make about 15% profit on their ticket price and that it costs £33.32 per day per visitor to provide the experience of 420m of slope. If the same scenario of Op.Costs was imposed onto Champoussin, the best value example from the list in the Telegraph, one adult 6-day pass should cost around about £59,300, or a per kilometre cost of £51.56, so thats economies of scale for you. Plus tuition and on-hill snacks and drinks of course, plus Champoussin doesn't include kit hire in their ticket price which Hemel does...
Now, may I please get back to my day job at the Telegraph Snow desk for pointless stat-grinding?
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@Richard_Sideways, You obviously have too much time on your hands! lol
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| johnE wrote: |
| I then clicked on the The ultimate ski holiday packing list link and realy had a good laugh. |
My personal favourite in the lists is 'Equipment' where number 1 is "Skis or snowboard"
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
...
Mt. Hemels length is listed as 160m, so at £39.20 for a day pass, 6 days, *whirring sound* Comes out at £1,470 per kilometre. Which sounds pricey.
..
Now, may I please get back to my day job at the Telegraph Snow desk for pointless stat-grinding? |
(1) About half a lifetime ago I calculated that heliboarding was cheaper per *vertical meter* than the Hemel dry slope. If you think about it, you'll realize that both slope speed and lift speed are significantly less at an artificial slope, hence the amount of vertical you an get is significantly restricted. Your kilometres have been Brexited too.
(2) Yes, although they'll be drunk by now today.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@flangesax, they didn't split the PdS. Just quoted different prices from different ticket offices 
Clearly not written by a skier.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@under a new name, That's what I mean. How can you write that and then state that there are no places in Austria that meet the list! I get a bit sensitive over negative press as I then have to spend time explaining to people that it is a load of balls.
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| Pruman wrote: |
| Wonder what Hemel is. |
Mt. Hemels length is listed as 160m, so at £39.20 for a day pass, 6 days, *whirring sound* Comes out at £1,470 per kilometre. Which sounds pricey.
But...
If you factor in that the main slope is often broken down into two often, i.e. clear piste and bump course, slalom course or jumps'n'boxes, you could argue you could double the length down into 2, AND add in the 100m or so bunny slope on the right, that could increase the length up to about 420m so thats a much more favourable £560 per kilometre....
But...
Lets take into account that HH has some unique climatic conditions working against it... so lets extrapolate that and say that they make about 15% profit on their ticket price and that it costs £33.32 per day per visitor to provide the experience of 420m of slope. If the same scenario of Op.Costs was imposed onto Champoussin, the best value example from the list in the Telegraph, one adult 6-day pass should cost around about £59,300, or a per kilometre cost of £51.56, so thats economies of scale for you. Plus tuition and on-hill snacks and drinks of course, plus Champoussin doesn't include kit hire in their ticket price which Hemel does...
Now, may I please get back to my day job at the Telegraph Snow desk for pointless stat-grinding? |
That's 10 minutes of your life you'll never get back.
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You know it makes sense.
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That stat is plainly just wrong as well. Dolomiti Superski lift pass covers circa 1200km of piste and costs 287euro for a 6 day adult pass in high season. Even after the pounds crashed thats near on double the km for less money than the best one on their list... My grandfather who was a wise man used to say stats are like bikini's, they reveal interesting figures but hide essential detail. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Awww, I'd have only wasted it some other way less interesting.
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Poster: A snowHead
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One assumes that French and Swiss resorts pay sweeter advertorial expenses to journalists than Tirol and Salzburgerland.
PdS is odd. They've always had exactly 650km ever since the day I learned to ski (in the PdS). My belief is that it is a number plucked from thin air, and when they had to start quoting an MTB trail distance too, they strangely managed to pluck the same number out of thin air despite the lack of correlation between ski pistes and MTB trails (and only about 1/3rd of the lifts open... but they only need 1/3rd open to access a much larger number of hectares in summer).
Might have to exploit cost difference between swiss and french side.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@andy,
| Quote: |
Might have to exploit cost difference between swiss and french side.
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Les Gets has the following condition on their lift pass page and I suspect all the other resorts will as well so it may not be possible to exploit the price/currency difference
"The Portes du Soleil is the largest international ski area in the world, with two different currencies. To comply with this difference, all skiers who bought a skipass from a French ski resort have to start their day in France ; all skiers who bought a skipass from a Swiss ski resort have to start their day in Switzerland. Good ski safari between France and Switzerland!"
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Even if they've doubled it which I doubt its still the same value as the best on the list. There is a hell of a lot of piste...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The Tirol Card is a season ticket, but an AllStar/Salzburgerland Superski Card can be bought weekly for €265. This covers 2,790 km, so less than 10 cents pr km.
Clearly it would be impossible to cover all 25 resorts in 6 days, but staying in somewhere like St Johan in Tirol it would be possible to do the Saalbach-hinterglemm-Leogang-Fieberbrunn ski circus, Kitzbuhel, Ellmau-Söll etc and possibly Zell am See/Kaprun or Maria Alm, all of which are within 30 mins by car, as well as St Johan itself.
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What absolute donkey's todger. So La Grave with a measure of almost absolute zero is the worst place in the world despite being one of the world's finest lift access ski spots.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, Shhhhhhh! We don't want Tele-readers finding that out!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Timc wrote: |
Les Gets has the following condition on their lift pass page and I suspect all the other resorts will as well so it may not be possible to exploit the price/currency difference
"The Portes du Soleil is the largest international ski area in the world, with two different currencies. To comply with this difference, all skiers who bought a skipass from a French ski resort have to start their day in France ; all skiers who bought a skipass from a Swiss ski resort have to start their day in Switzerland. Good ski safari between France and Switzerland!" |
I love the PDS but in our experience it's more restricted than that. We bought full PDS passes online through the Chatel website although we were staying in la chapppele d'abonance. They wouldn't activate until we were in the Chatel only pass area.
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What I didn't get from Schrahe's site was whether he properly accounted for gradient... does he?
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FAQ
