USA advice

A snowHead

Time for the annual where to this year question...

Due to term dates etc the missus and I are thinking America but have no knowledge and/or experience of skiing and where to go etc. As a guide, we have loved the Dolomites for wide range of skiing to suit my adrenaline needs and her cruisey blues/reds.

Can anyone point us in the direction of good resorts/areas to head to for Christmas? I don't mind the option of hiring a car to visit a range of smaller resorts that are closely or doing the ski in/out at a bigger resort.

Thanks in advance.

A snowHead

I have enjoyed Breckenridge.

The other thing you can do is stay in Salt Lake City and ski a range of resorts like Alta, Snowbird, Park City, Brighton and Deer Valley (within 30-40 mins drive).

http://www.visitsaltlake.com/skicity/resorts/all-resorts/

A Ski City Super Pass is available:

http://www.visitsaltlake.com/skicity/super-pass/

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

First of all forget the East Coast.

Denver is the easiest place to get a flight to from the UK. One option is to stay in Fresco with a hire car and ski a different resort every day. Arapahoe Basin Breckenridge Keystone Copper Vail Beaver Creek Lovelands and maybe relocate and ski Winter Park and Steamboat. Or stay in Snowmass and ski the 4 Aspen resorts [ free bus ] I have done both in the past. Avoid staying in Breckenridge unless you are absolutely sure you are OK about sleeping at 9,000 ft. [ I am not! ]

Salt Lake City is a possibility although I know of no direct flight from the UK. I am retired, live on a sailboat in the Carib and this is where I ski/board. I stay in a cheap motel, hire a car and ski Alta [ boarders are banned ] Snowbird, Solitude Brighton, Snowbasin, Powder Mountain, Canyons, Park City and Deer Valley.

If you want to avoid the car hire bit and restrict yourself to one resort I would choose Vail or Aspen, both of which appear in UK package deals eg SkiWorld. There is more to do of an evening there rather then Winter Park or A Basin.

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I've not been to either (would like to go to both) but at Christmas, 2 that come to mind are Steamboat and Aspen/Snowmass. Christmas is still a little early and while most places would have good snow most years, nothing is really guaranteed. A few years ago we went to Park City Utah over Christmas. We ended up with good snow conditions but it came late. I recall fretting about how little snow they had just prior to our trip. IMO, Park City is a really nice ski resort town and there is tons of intermediate skiing right in the area. And Alta, Snowbird, Solitude, and Brighton are within an hour. By CO standard Steamboat is relatively low and has a very good reputation for early season snow. Aspend/Snowmass also have a good reputation for consistent snow and Snowmass is always described as a great mountain for intermediate cruising. Breckenridge is a cool town though it would likely be busier that time of year. It's also 9500' to 9600' at the base, so altitude issues are a real possibility. I also really like Frisco. It's like a small Breckenridge with a Victorian main street. Good bus connections to Copper, decent bus connections to Breck, OK bus connections to Keystone and Arapahoe Basin (very high, and probably more suited to spring skiing). Frisco is around 9000'. None will have the scenery you get in the Dolomites.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Yup, I quite like Frisco as a centre with good bus links and the roads are usually cleared fairly quickly if it dumps down and it's much cheaper than staying 'en-resort' . . . unless you get a good deal. You can't do cheaper than an old van in the Walmart carpark fer a cheap season . . . though a 4.6ltr boot dryer was probably a bit of overkill. You're probably too late to pick up a cheap season pass . . . That is THE BEST value you can get as discounts can be well less than $500 for a season ticket if you book early enough then you can take your pick as to when to travel. Day tickets START at $100+ Shocked

TBH, if yer pocket's a bit on the short side I'd probably defer to Europe for the next season and let the currency markets sort themselves out a bit . . . however if Der Orange Hodensack gets in, the Dollar will circle the pan Confused

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Try Heavenly in California. Easy drive from San Francisco. Large number of resorts around the lake to choose from. Casinos across the road to play in.
Then always San Fran for a couple of nights to finish it off.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Thanks for the info so far everyone. Any more thoughts and ideas gratefully received.

Money isn't a bottomless pit but not a major issue. We both would rather pay a little more and enjoy as even in Europe it's not a cheap week.

We're just a bit worried that having picked the place with the best snow in europe every year for the last 4 or 5 years that our luck is going to run out some time and with the terms dates meaning an earlier than usual break this year will make this the most likely year.

Presumably "poor snow" US style isn't like European poor snow with either only the Base layer of ice or lorry dropped white ribbons through fields?

After all it is free

Anywhere can get poor snow. Rockies included.

I wouldn't bother going all that way if you are piste skiers.

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I've skied Heavenly Lake Tahoe a number of times as well as Vail. I'd say the easiest to access was Vail, as you drive 99.9% of the way on the freeway from Denver. Vail Village sits right beside the freeway. After a transatlantic flight, jet lag, car hire pickup and driving, having an easy-access destination was very welcome. Driving from San Francisco to Tahoe is more effort, a bit like Troyes to the Alps - some freeways then single-carriage roads towards the end. As well as easier transfer, I liked Vail for the diversity of ski slopes and the characteristic 'bowl' skiing areas - nothing quite like it in the Alps: sort of open bowl with trees and rocks with lots of choice of ski routes. However, be prepared for expensive equipment hire, ski pass and evening dining. Nice thing about Heavenly was the views and height - amazing to be skiing on deep snow and looking down into the Nevada Desert below.

However, in all these cases I was already over in the US on business. For Lake Tahoe, we were able to leave in the morning so the journey was in daylight with no pressure, on a Weekday. Going to Tahoe from the UK, you'll be on a 10+hr flight, arriving about 4pm, have to get through customs/immigration, pick up the hire car, get out of the Bay Area (think M3/M25 Heathrow), then drive in the dark up into the mountains. Unless you were prepared to lose a day and stay overnight. For Vail, I flew from St.Louis to Denver and met my wife off the LHR flight, having picked-up the hire car, and off we went. Even so, we hit snow towards Vail and it was a difficult drive that I'd much rather have done in daylight. She was completely jet lagged for at least 2 days and the 2,440m base altitude of Vail can also cause headaches initially. Coming back from Vail to Denver was less stressful than coming back to SFR from Tahoe.

I'd still recommend you take a look at the Heavenly website. When we went, there were some good accommodation packages on offer through the website. We stayed each time at the Tahoe Seasons Resort Hotel, so we just walked to/from the California lift, rather than have to drive. There's also a gondola up from Heavenly itself. Even 'though we were in a hotel, it worked out cheaper than the apartment we hired in Vail. Like anywhere, you need to do some research to get the overall cost comparisons right. Overall, Vail was more expensive per head than a family-of-4 in Verbier in the New Year.

I think the Americans are very good at on-piste catering, which is good if you're a family group. It's usually very efficient and reasonably-priced, even on a Sunday lunchtime. What was more expensive was the in-resort evening dining - you could go for budget dining but anything more up-market was relatively pricey. Compared to France, the biggest contrast is the efficient and polite queuing and the relatively empty slopes, complete with free slope guides who will stop and give advice to anyone looking bemused. Instruction is excellent compared to the employment cartel known as the ESF, reasonably priced and with (as you'd expect) a lot of focus on the customer. Equipment hire was expensive as were the ski passes, but then for the latter you get a high staff-to-customer ratio and those very useful on-piste Guides.

There are loads of other great places in the Rockies, so see what other people have to say. I've not returned to the Rockies because I didn't fancy the transatlantic flight - I'd say it's only worth it for 10+ days skiing because of the hassle and jet lag. It might suit a 2-week+ excursion, where you spent a few days in San Francisco first, then did the drive to Tahoe in the daytime, un-jetlagged.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Are you including Canada or are you solely set on the States? The various Canadian resorts accessible from Calgary could make an interesting road trip, but Christmas on Canada can be very cold and dark.

Personally, I'm less of a fan of the Colorado resorts I've visited than other parts of North America: too many people and an experience that is more manufactured than some of the more raw resorts. If I travel that far, I'm willing to add an extra flight to my schedule to hit absolute perfection.

Based on what you sat, if I had to single out one resort for you from the many I've visited in North America, it would be Big Sky. Huge, deserted and cruise but with plenty of adrenaline action. It's not normally a Christmas resort as it needs deep snow cover to be at its best but, unless you're planning to be beasting the double blacks, that's not likely to be a problem.

snow reports

Reading this thread with interest as I have thoughts about tagging a ski holiday onto a work conference that should happen February 2018, if I can persuade the wife to do the journey to Denver or Salt Lake City. Got to plan ahead Smile

You can get poor snow anywhere. Otherwise. Right hand side: probably not worth the trip. Left hand side: that's where you want to go.

My own Californian mates have season tickets for Utah and Colorado - they like their snow drier than that. Each to their own.

Colorado will get you dry snow, better than any snow I've personally ridden in Europe. It's mostly not very steep though, and some of the riding can lack variety. Easy to get to from Denver even with jet lag. I think you can fly directly to Denver. Touristy.

There's not all that much South for "destination" skiers... there are some great small resorts. Taos, for example. More likely you'd go West into Utah, where lies the driest snow in the world. Their mountains tend to be pointy and interesting too, although some are so interesting they're hard to get a handle on without local help. Harder to get to, fewer tourists, more "hard core".

Further north things get more sporting, but you'd probably not be up there if you're asking. Top left is Washington state which has a few notable destinations, although they share the coastal thing with California and are even damper (but they often get a lot of precipitation).

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If you're "not off piste skiers" that's a great reason to go, because.... everything in-bounds is controlled and patrolled, so you can ride the whole resort area without worrying about that. Either ride on the trails or between them, it's your choice. It's worth bearing in minds that lift-counts and resort-size tend to be significantly smaller than Europe, but you do get to ride all the bits in between the runs which helps balance that. Even so, places like Taos and Snowbird are tiny by European standards - you need to know what you're getting into if you're going there for 10 days, for example. That's not what most visitors do there.

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For me the best place is the place with the best snow, so it's a moving feast.

You know it makes sense.

@imull, more info please on just what you are looking for.

@philwig, has a very good point that if you want to get into off piste skiing, bearing in mind that doesn't necessarily mean nice snow, nor easy conditions, NA has control advantages.

But if bot of you are staying on piste, as I said, why go all that way.

Also, IME, @LaForet, NA skiing almost invariably offers either rubbish or expensive on mountain dining vs e.g. Italy. Or France.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

If you are set on skiing in the US, your best bet on all fronts is to go to Colorado. You will have the best odds of getting good snow and weather for any given week. Any of the large areas in Colorado are fine.
I live in the US but have spend a lot of time skiing in the Alps. I was in Corvara in March of this year (4th time in the Dolomites), and I can't think of why I'd ski anyplace else. I've skied pretty much every major resort in the US and Canada, and if I had to choose, I'd pick Europe every time.

A snowHead

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Colorado if you have to bet on natural snow anywhere in the world at Xmas. West coast has proved itself too sketchy a bet.

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

clarky999, Very true, but Mt. Baker is further west than the Rockies, but you knew that already

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@Bones, yep I was responding to the OP's more general "US style!"

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Whitefish, Montana.

Great snow record at Christmas
Wonderful Christmas atmosphere on and off mountain
Good, long groomed runs with great grooming
Quiet
Relatively few Europeans
Great accommodation at cheaper than Colorado prices
Quirky
Stunning views
Cracking people
Wide selection of eateries

Did two seasons there, and started and finished two seasons at Kicking Horse at what was then Big Mountain

After all it is free

@under a new name

Basically we want somewhere with a good range of runs. The other half is capable of reds but doesn't particularly enjoy the steep gnarly narrow reds that develop into 3 moguls wide alleys in the afternoon due to everyone side sliding rather than skiing. Whereas I like the tougher steeper reds and blacks where I can challenge myself. I would like to develop my powder skiing now that she is of a standard where I can bob off on my own for a morning or two and she won't be tied to a small selection of runs.

We love the Dolomites and Rach will ski the Sella Ronda etc happily. Last winter in St Anton she could cope with the slopes but the huge quantities of base layer and unpredictable ice made it hard work for her so we would like to find somewhere that is relatively snow sure (I know - nowhere is guaranteed etc) due to the dates as I mentioned earlier.

Generally, it needs to be a good range of runs where I will not get bored but Rach can keep improving and ideally without the mad queues building up. Not fussed if it is a single venue area (sounds like Colorado) or a multi venue with driving out (sounds like San Fran). What we don't want basically is to get there to find it is 5 average runs and 5 mental runs then 100miles to the next resort.

Driving and jet lag are not a massive concern - I do a lot of driving and from past experience I haven't found the lag too bad going out to the states. Coming back is another story though

With regards to why go all that way. Our track record in Europe has been as lucky as you can get. Whenever we have been has been virtually the only area open/with more than 5 runs open for the last few years. We both teach so are tied to school holidays and the XMas holidays this year mean that we would be heading out on about the 19th/20th which is earlier than normal. The last few years at this point it has been green fields all the way in the majority of Europe with a last minute dump to get us skiing. We both spend most of the winter term looking forward to our holiday and don't want to run the risk of getting a crappy weeks skiing (last year ceased to be fun by the Thursday) when we could try somewhere new and ski stateside. We have looked at Finland/Noraway etc but the thought of the small resorts does nothing for me. I need more than their offering to amuse me for a week.

To whoever it was who asked about Canada - we have no preferences at the moment other than having a good holiday.... Shocked

@imull, given all that (esp the bit about powder) I would consider Park City as your base and take in all the local areas, none of which are far away. Also Delta are flying direct from London to SLC now so for you it would involve a hop down and one transatlantic. SLC to park City is about 45 mins and an easy drive, whereas Denver to say Breckenridge is way longer and can get badly snarled up.

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@imull, We're in a similar situation, stuck with Christmas holidays & had 3 poor European xmas's, so also looking at the USA...
Park City comes recommended but my main thoughts are length of the flights ? & most of the accommodation is B&B, how easy is it to eat out at Christmas in the US ? & how much ?....

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@imull, UT is probably as close to a sure thing for snow as you'll find anywhere. Alta and Snowbird and in the Little Cottonwood Canyon. In the U.S. runs are marked green, blue, sometimes blue/black, black, and double black. But ratings are relative to other runs in the resort rather than any kind of standard. Alta and Snowbird are off piste meccas. Alta has a groomed blue off every lift. Some are relative steep, as least as far as blue runs are marked in the U.S. As low intermediates my wife and I loved Alta. There's not a huge amount of cruising terrain, but we've loved it. Note that if it's dumping snow, those groomed blues turn into cut up crud and small bumps fast. Snowbird is generally steeper than Alta. A confident intermediate can have fun. Probably not a great place for more timid intermediates. Solitude and Brighton are in the Big Cottonwood Canyon. I think of Solitude sort of like Alta. Quite a lot of groomed terrain, blues are relatively steep, but an intermediate can have fun. It also tends to be like it's namesake, and there are rarely annoying crowds. I've never skied Brighton. There's very little in terms of villages in the Cottonwood Canyons; mostly just a few lodges. The outskirts of Salt Lake City (Midvale) are near the entrance to the Cottonwoods Canyons. IMO, that part of SLC is just kind of ugly American suburbs with car dealerships, strip malls, etc. Not a bad area, but no resort feel. Park City is a proper resort town. Lively main street with lots of bars, restaurants, shops. My wife and I have really liked staying in Park City. Although they are really close together and there's been talk of linking the whole works, the PC resorts get less snow than the Cottonwoods Canyons resorts. What was the Canyons is now merged with Park City Mountain Resort to become the largest ski area in the U.S. The Canyons seems to get good and bad reviews. Kind of a goofy layout and they offer free tours. But my wife and I have really had great times there. Never skied the terrain at what was PCMR up till the merger. But there is a ton to ski in PC. There's also Deer Valley which has lots of intermediate terrain. We've generally stayed in PC and drive to the Cottonwoods Canyons 2-3 times during a week of skiing. Depending on where you are staying it's about 50 minutes, and while you have to go down to SLC, you're kind of on the outskirts and we've never hit bad traffic (maybe lucky). AWD or chains are not infrequently required. Snow in the PC resorts should be fine at Christmas, especially on the groomed terrain, but I know that some years it's thin. It would be very unusual that the Cottonwoods Canyons resorts would not have good snow on their pisted terrain.

snow reports

@imull, that's more helpful.

No time for longer comment till later, but off piste <> powder.

Utah great, on mountain dining still crap. I had a week there, all off piste but more or less no powder at all.

IMULL............. As with any place, any season....... Keep abreast of conditions first, then go from there. Look into the variety that the USA offers and assess what might be most appealing overall in terms of you and your wife's needs vis-à-vis what a given resort(s) region offers or does not offer. You can go from pedestrian to patrician and in-between depending upon the facility, location and the like.
No one best place, but come the Christmas season reservations are beyond tight and then.........., what are the conditions in a given region? Notoriously, the central western states (CO, UT, WY, MT) are on average at that time of the year typically better than the rest of the nation, with the west coast coming into focus in February onward. Prediction is for a very cold winter in the east and central states with a bit of carryover into the central western region.
Many Brits find themselves in the greater Summit County region of Colorado as a central location to ski within and work out of as it were. For starters, that daily non stop from LHR to DEN is all too attractive to pass up. This means billeting down in a Dillon - Frisco - B'ridge - Keystone and skiing in the immediate area or venturing off if it makes sense to a Vail, or (keep this under wraps), the "lesser" tiny jewel of a station of Ski Cooper, a 40 minute drive from Frisco. I strongly advise to never go to or stay in Leadville.......... A beyond dirty, dingy town that one needs a tetanus shot just to drive through, but I digress......... The entire Aspen circus is appealing to many - four separate mountains. Look into that as same might serve to your appeal. If Utah is up and running many simply stay in Salt Lake City and shuttle back and forth to no less than 8 mountains in a given day if they are seeking variety. Again, keep abreast of conditions..........
..................

You know it makes sense.

Great info so far everyone. Thank you. Don't think I'm any closer to a decision though however, for any others thinking of this I have just priced up flights with STA and got 550 return to San Francisco over the Christmas period.

Currently looking like I could do a week with hotel in Lake Tahoe itself for around £1500 B&B plus beer tokens Shocked

Think our week in St Christoph last year cost us more...

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@imull, I have no personal experience but a not very demanding chum went to Tahoe and said it was worth going to ski if you were there but not worth going there to ski if you weren't...

A snowHead

Well, I have a trip report from last Xmas on here somewhere for Sun Valley. It's one of the best Christmas vacations I have ever experienced. Low crowds, beautiful town of Ketchum. Long cruiser runs. The runs are also steeper than the CO resorts. They do a really cool Christmas lighting ceremony as well. (Especially if you have kids) Some really good bars and restaurants too. But, it's not that easy to get to. Which is a good thing. No one mentioned Jackson Hole, WY. That's another out of the way option. Not really a cruiser mtn. though

Like others have said, the CO resorts are a good bet but crowded at Xmas. The It's not like Europe where Xmas week is low bookings, and then The week after is crazy. It's basically busy from the week before until New Years.

Tahoe is a good choice as well. Lot's of variety if you have a car, and want to explore some of the other ski resorts while there.

Not much to add from what other's have already posted. It's always a crap shoot when booking in advance.

Sun Valley Trip report - http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=2812426&highlight=sun+valley#2812426

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

What about this http://www.skiworld.co.uk/ski-holidays/usa/vail/gleneagles

Pretty luxurious chalet with above average food and direct flights to Denver.

Help!!

USA advice

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