Benefit of full-time tuition "open to question"

A snowHead

According to Quentin Letts (political journo, I believe) in his article in yesterday's Daily Mail holiday section,
"Few experts will admit this, because most have an interest in one way or another, but ski-school is an over-rated part of the (ski holiday) experience. For complete novices, yes, it is essential. After that first skiing trip, however the benefit of full-time tuition is open to question".
He says, "Teaching a child to ski is not as hard as it sounds. The old instructors' cries of 'bend ze knees' and 'legs togezzer' are an invaluable part of the game".
The article documents how he has taught his children to ski over the last couple of years and one of his claims is that, "the more runs you do, the better you will become. This is one of the problems with ski schools. It may be inevitable with a large group but there is too much time-wasting".

Is Quentin Letts the World's most accomplished ski teacher as well as the World's bestest Dad ever? Or perhaps a berk?? Shocked

Discuss please.

A snowHead

Red Leon, Berk?

Interesting, perhaps requiring qualification.

Maybe, maybe, ski school is over-rated and unnecessary for someone with a "few trips under their belt" but only because IMHO said skiers then move onto a stage where private instruction is required for an optimum progression rate. Assuming progression is what's wanted, of course.

So maybe not a berk, but certainly guilty of ambiguous and misleading journalism...

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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Don't care one way or the other. You just need something to take you to where you want to go...if it is tuition, then so be it...
If it is like minded individuals, that might work as well IMV

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Daily Mail up to its usual standard of journalism. It seems that Letts is pedlar of dubious ski advice as well as being a cr@p poltical journalist (IMHO).

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There can't be many people who go to ski school all day, every day after the first couple of weeks, surely? I find a few private days or half days great, but then I want time to practice what I've learnt or just mess about. Teaching your partner/kids/matesto ski sounds like a recipe for all sorts of disasters, unless you're an instructor (and even then ...).

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

rob@rar.org.uk,

Not so much a journo' but he does take the pee out of a lot of people who really deserve it.. IMO

After all it is free

JT, does not an instructor also provide an expanded horizon of places one might wish to go? Or is that all left to the advertising?

Sounds like rubbish. However he did say "full time", which would imply no time at all for practice, exploring, messing about, etc. On that basis, I'd agree with him, but I'm not sure that's what he meant to say...

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comprex,

Maybe,

If you can see the route you want to take then tuition may not be neccesary, and if you have like minded individuals you might get there by your own steam. I know a few people who are very adept at self teaching.... They just watch and learn. This might work for some but not at all.
Then again skiing in the same group all the time might be limiting and insular...

Always a tough one...

snow reports

rob@rar.org.uk,

Without a proper opposition cynicism is pretty much all you are left with

Unfortunately it is because of just these attitudes of people like Quentin Letts that we have an increasingly more dangerous time on the slope, people for example who have learnt to ski on a few hundred meters of dry slope or if lucky an indoor snowdome, they get out to resort and seem to imediately be drawn to runs where they can only be a danger to other piste users with their inexperience, not to mention their lack of caution in poor visibility or their lack of knowledge of the piste rules...

And now to cap things off we get a journalist telling people its the right thing to do, it's about as iresponsible as telling the average tenager "Ok you've learn't how to change gear and stear, here's the keys to the Ferrari" Mad

You know it makes sense.

D G Orf, Agree.
Teaching kids is interesting because they will follow and copy you, easy, if what you are doing is correct. My next project for Mr Letts would be to teach kids to be jounalists. Little Angel

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I have plenty of possible comments here, but perhaps my biggest is that there are alot of people with aspirations way too high. Unless one actually enjoys the lessons more than just skiing around on their own steam, full time tutoring strikes me as a waste of time unless you want to be super mega good. Now that is fair enough of course, but lets face it, someone skiing one or 2 weeks a year has very little chance of ever being all that.

Of course full time tuition will help your skiing, but does it actually make for more enjoyment? I have a sneaking suspicion that the tuition is almost becoming a form of snobbery. Those who are tutored alot very often seem to think they are better and more worthy of the slopes than those who are not. I think this really is unfair since it is their choice to get lessons, those who dont may not even have a choice..... the cost of private lessons can add significantly to the cost of a holiday!

I will of course end by agreeing that an individual who is lacking in ettiquitte and is endangering others is a terrible thing. Of course such behavior does not guarantee that individual is lacking in tutoring....

A snowHead

A snowHead

I'll agree that it's not the safest way to go, but from watching friends who have had few lessons and always go out with expert, crazy skiers and push themselves to keep up versus those who take regular lessons and few chances, the ones who go out with few lessons and crazy skiers progress WAY faster.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Did someone say Ferrari?

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Are there any snowHeads with more than a couple of weeks under their belts who always have full time lessons when they ski (competition skiers apart)?

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I don't personally but I do know a number of people who do have regular lessons whenever they go skiing, of course it might just be that they have too much money wink

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richmond, not full time, but I would have a couple of days lessons on most trips, not just because if I only ski a couple of weeks a year, so I don't remember everything from one year to the next, but also by skiing with a local instructor, you get to go places and try new runs which you might not have done otherwise, and isn't trying new places/things part of the fun of going on holiday?

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dear me, there are some real fuddy duddies on here! i sometimes wonder if some people on here are capable of having fun without the sanction of an instructor

reasonable technique, good manners on piste and safe skiing are all good things, but since when were they monopolised by people who are prepared to pay for an instructor's time? aren't experienced friends in just as good a position to teach some of these things? aren't some of them possible to work out on your own, through common sense, private contemplation or... reading a book?

i remember one instructor saying to a member of my group, "you're pretty much got it, now you just need to clock up some miles practicing it" - so he was pretty much saying don't bother with more lessons for now - just ski a lot and you'll improve. which is pretty much what Letts seems to be saying

FWIW, I do take lessons from time to time and find them valuable. i don't think this makes me morally superior to anyone else

After all it is free

In the last couple of years (and I would expect in the next couple of years too) I have spent what seems like an absolute fortune on ski intruction with Warren Smith. Some of it on a course, some of it on whole or half day private lessons (for us as a family of 4).

Results: we are all much better skiers, especially the kids....they are now superb skiers.
We all enjoy our skiing even more....we can ski for longer in a day (better technique is less physically demanding) and we can all ski more of the mountain (steeps, deps and moguls were all previously highly suspect).

Could we have done it with just more practise? NO!
If you are doing it wrong then all you are doing by practising more is....getting better at the wrong things. It was only after 20+ years of skiing with almost no instruction that my wife and I decided that we had better change something because our skiing certainly wasn't changing by practise itself.

Each to their own....but for us it has been 100% money (and time, and effort) well spent.

D G Orf, hear, hear! rungsp, I thinkk you're spot on. However, no-one needs full time lessons - that's ridiculous. You need practise time (beginners too), and to pay someone to watch you practise is a waste of their time and your money. Sounds like a very dodgy journo to me.

ponder, What do you mean by progress???

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easiski, I know you're implying that they have poor technique, or are dangerous skiers/boarders, etc. But honestly, to my untrained eye, they seem to have very smooth technique, and if they're dangerous they're only really endangering themselves, since we don't often ski crowded pistes, and don't ski anywhere near our limit when there are other people around. They do steep, tight trees, steep and narrow chutes, decent sized cliff drops, etc. with what looks to me like a fair bit of style. I feel that I am at a similar level (a bit worse than most of them though) to them, though obviously it's harder for me to comment on myself since I can't watch myself boarding, but like my friends I have had few lessons.

Edit: I will concede that the best skiers I've skied with have had extensive race training, but they've also had the most experience, i.e. skiing in BC since they were 3, generally with around 30-80 days/season.

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It doesn't sound as if anyone has lessons all day, every day, so what is this Letts bloke on about?

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ponder, I didn't imply anything - I asked what you meant! rolling eyes

Some people mean going faster, some mean skiing technically better, some mean tackling harder slopes - Can't even pose a question nowadays!!! It sounds as though your firends are doing the right thing and are doing well. However, the majority of people don't manage to get to this level on their own. You and your friends are clearly naturals! (who aren't a common as anyone may think).

I had group ski lessons as a kid almost every holiday having learnt on a dryslope - the vast majority of these were of the "follow me" variety in broken english (either boring or struggling to keep up) & I'm sure I learnt far more from just freeskiing with my brother. Now I know the "private" ski schools have improved the standard hugely but my impression of group lessons is probably tainted forever. I wonder how many people have similar learning experiences and accordingly is it a surprise if people get turned off the idea.

You know it makes sense.

easiski, oops, sorry, misinterpreted you Embarassed

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I am about to embark on my 4th ski holiday (in total, I have skied 4 weeks + 3 weekends). I have not booked ski school at all as I feel, as also told by easiski, that I am past that stage. I have, therefore, booked 3 days of private lessons; this gives me a combination of one to one instruction (also the chance for the instructor to take me on various runs that he/she knows) and also gives me free time to practice on my own.

A good balance I think!

Interestingly, my partner, who is italian and learned to ski at 8 years old when at school is also going to take some lessons as he has not really ever had a lesson in his life as such; he is confident on really any run. He feels that he would also benefit from some tuition from those in the know. I think this is sensible also.

brian

easiski, ponder, is decent progression without lessons not much more common among boarders than skiers though ?

I don't know if it's true, but I get the impression that there's a lot more to go wrong with skiing technique. Also, it's perfectly possible to get around skiing badly while boarding badly tends to mean you won't stay upright for long !

A snowHead

brian, I would say the opposite. Boarding requires lessons, but many people doing it don't take them. I think more skiers on average bother with lessons. The fact that they're never on their feet doesn't seem to phase most boarders at all!! I think (because they seem to think it's OK to sideslip everywhere, although boarder friends of mine say it isn't) boarders tend to go onto harder slopes before skiers. Having said all that, this week is ghastly with nothing but lunatics trying to kill us at every turn! I think it's 'cos its a cheap week (lots of young people), and our slopes would please even Erica 2004 and her pals of the North American persuasion!! - much too flat!! Sad

brian

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Whenever I go skiing, I usually like to squeeze in a private lesson or 2. However, on my next trip I shall be spending the first week boarding and so will do a 5 day course (or whatever similar thing is on offer). This is mostly for the direct instruction but also to have a laugh with others in a similar position. Also, it should make it easier to learn from other people's mistakes as well as my own (and therefore hopefully not make so many mistakes in the first place). As for subsequent snowboarding lessons - who knows whether or not I will like it enough to do it again.....

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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I had two weeks tuition and that has been it so far. That is until in a couple of weeks time, when I'm spending my six mornings on the slope with ESF in one of their advanced classes just to tweak a few things. I've skied five weeks so far and I'm confident on all reds and most blacks, but I just want to make it a little easier. As someone alluded to further up, a better technique can be much less physically draining, and having a bad knee, any little bit of relief is valuable. Of course I couldn't stand whole day lessons as I like to just explore too - of course, going on my own this time was a factor in deciding to book a group activity.

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I tend to take a lesson once each trip. But I just spent my 4th week skiing without any input as I had a pretty good idea of where any problems lay and had some drills in mind to practice. I progressed a fair bit, managed to use the terrain to jump and change edges for the first time instead of rolling the skis over. Great fun. But the next trip I will be requiring some lessons to help me with a few problems.

Help!!

Benefit of full-time tuition "open to question"

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