To follow on from the "Can you become a great skier through regular practice in a snowdome?" which drills do snowheads recommend or practice.
Caveat.....I know very little about skiing, I do understand that good instruction is worth its weight in gold
thanks, andy
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
You could check out "Javelin Turns" on YouTube...I remember having an instructor who was very keen on them.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Mon 2-05-16 18:04; edited 1 time in total
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Get an instructor to review your skiing and prescribe a few drills to help improve. Javelin turns for instance do more harm than good ime for most skiers...
Get an instructor to review your skiing and prescribe a few drills to help improve. Javelin turns for instance do more harm than good ime for most skiers...
I can only pass on my experience....it was Scott Frew (Supreme Ski, Courchevel) who was a big advocate....his opinion is also very much supported by Mark Jones: http://www.icesi.org/pdf/S_B_technique1.pdf
I agree that being supported by an instructor is the ideal.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I would suggest you having a lesson as well to work out the areas of your skiing that need to be concentrated on and the appropriate drills for this. There are thousands of drills but without an action plan and a reason behind why your doing each of them its hard to suggest a selection. I hope this helps!
Yes see an instructor, Javelin turns may have been great for Old Fartbag's stage of progression but might be totally useless at yours, as said above there are a ton of drills you will be able to find several instructors who rate one or more of them but they wouldn't just tell you randomly to try it.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
Get an instructor to review your skiing and prescribe a few drills to help improve. Javelin turns for instance do more harm than good ime for most skiers...
this makes total sense to me, but i havent always found the instruction at my closest snowdome to be that productive....
can anyone recommend an instructor that can do some sessions at castleford?
After all it is free
After all it is free
Andy, what level have you reached?
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@andymb, a mate of mine Si W. is/was the head of ski school at Castleford. Not sure if he is working there this summer though... He is a great guy and fine instructor...
skimottaret...thanks, I'll look him up. I probably wouldn't get stared until august/september time, but its always good to hear a recommendation
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@skimottaret, Isn't one of the Snowheads an instructor at Castleford ?
@andymb, As skimottaret, has said get an instructor to assess your skiing and give you drills to work on. If need be call in at Castleford and ask to speak to the person in charge of the instructors and discuss what you are looking at achieving and can they recommend an instructor who will be able to push you and help you improve.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
The reason I ask, is that it goes to the heart of how successfully one can safely implement suggested drills (through careful research)....a read through my link shows why I singled out this, in the words of Mark Jones, "Godfather of all drills".
Anyway, good luck with your road to improvement
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Pivot slips, also appropriate for the confined space available.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I hate skiing drills, they really don't do anything useful for me at all. But I do find it useful when an experienced instructor examines my technique and points out any flaws. Then I just work hard on correcting those flaws while skiing normally i.e. with no artificial drills. For example years ago I had one instructor comment that I was allowing my uphill ski to lead too far ahead of the downhill ski when carving and suggested that I work on driving the outside ski more through the middle to end of the turn and not allowing it to fall behind. I found this to be an instant improvement and it made my transitions much smoother. But nobody knows what specific flaws you have in your technique, so only a good instructor can help you to make progress - whether using drills or not to achieve it.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
uktrailmonster wrote:
I hate skiing drills, they really don't do anything useful for me at all. But I do find it useful when an experienced instructor examines my technique and points out any flaws. Then I just work hard on correcting those flaws while skiing normally i.e. with no artificial drills. For example years ago I had one instructor comment that I was allowing my uphill ski to lead too far ahead of the downhill ski when carving and suggested that I work on driving the outside ski more through the middle to end of the turn and not allowing it to fall behind. I found this to be an instant improvement and it made my transitions much smoother. But nobody knows what specific flaws you have in your technique, so only a good instructor can help you to make progress - whether using drills or not to achieve it.
I had the same fault (it can still sneak into my skiing if I'm not careful)....it's a hangover from old school technique, where everything uphill was pushed ahead.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
That piece on javelin turns was a little codescending that any skier can learn from them. No. I don't think I could, thanks not very much.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
One drill? 360s. If you can do a series of 360s down the slope, (not in the air!), it shows you have balance and understand weight change.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
maggi wrote:
One drill? 360s. If you can do a series of 360s down the slope, (not in the air!), it shows you have balance and understand weight change.
Yes, this I would love to achieve - mine's more like a drunken ant - and only on a very shallow slope
@motyl, I can't actually do it! I was just told by an instructor that it was the one thing to practise if you could only remember one thing.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@maggi, I don't know about it being the one thing - my instructor started us off on this then bounced all the way twirling down the slope It's not the sort of drill I would feel comfortable trying without clearance from an instructor - literally, clearance of the slope....
thanks to all for your comments and advice. I think that I'll look into getting an instructor to analyse and recommend some things to work on.
I havent really been back to the snow dome since I first started skiing (before my first trip to the mountains). I found it almost too busy to be working on anything apart form avoiding other people, and the group to be too large for the instructor to go into too much detail.
I'm hoping that I'll be better able/more confident to cope with the crowds!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Old Fartbag wrote:
uktrailmonster wrote:
I hate skiing drills, they really don't do anything useful for me at all. But I do find it useful when an experienced instructor examines my technique and points out any flaws. Then I just work hard on correcting those flaws while skiing normally i.e. with no artificial drills. For example years ago I had one instructor comment that I was allowing my uphill ski to lead too far ahead of the downhill ski when carving and suggested that I work on driving the outside ski more through the middle to end of the turn and not allowing it to fall behind. I found this to be an instant improvement and it made my transitions much smoother. But nobody knows what specific flaws you have in your technique, so only a good instructor can help you to make progress - whether using drills or not to achieve it.
I had the same fault (it can still sneak into my skiing if I'm not careful)....it's a hangover from old school technique, where everything uphill was pushed ahead.
Yes for me it was a hangover from old-school technique too. But once it was pointed out to me, I stopped doing it pretty much straight away and it really made a big difference.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@andymb, might be worth phoning the slope to find out when the quiet times are and what may fit your schedule. A quiet slope makes a huge difference to how enjoyable and productive indoor sessions can be.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
balernoStu wrote:
@andymb, might be worth phoning the slope to find out when the quiet times are and what may fit your schedule. A quiet slope makes a huge difference to how enjoyable and productive indoor sessions can be.
I always find weekdays 9-5 are always empty
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:
I always find weekdays 9-5 are always empty
job = money to go skiing etc - time to go skiing etc
you can't have it all.......
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
The development coaching sessions can be quite good and a lot quieter in the summer months, cheaper too if you get membership. I ski at MK but my OH is from the north so often skis at Cas. He says that the head of ski school has changed there fairly recently but that there are some good instructors there, the names he gives are Brian Evans, Allan Darley, Mick Logg, James Price, Peter Jones and a guy called Nigel but he doesn't know his last name. He says that they've messed about with the development coaching recently so it's best to check who's doing it as some of the sessions don't seem to have a regular instructor and it can be very hit and miss, not a good business model. It's worth looking at anyway though they are all compressed into the beginning of the week due to the dreaded park features that Snozone are so fond of
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@uktrailmonster, broken feet as its called is a common issue with previously old school skiers, I certainly had it and wasn't able to be on top of it a quick as you. One drill that helped me was shuffling my feet right through the turn.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
jbob wrote:
@uktrailmonster, broken feet as its called is a common issue with previously old school skiers, I certainly had it and wasn't able to be on top of it a quick as you. One drill that helped me was shuffling my feet right through the turn.
Yes, that makes sense. I managed to get out of that habit pretty quickly once I was aware of it, but it was all a fairly long time ago (10 years back). But I do remember that it totally transformed my skiing from that point onward.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Skimottaret
I am genuinely interested in your apparent change of heart over Javelin Turns. A few years ago your view was, "Javelins are good for loads of things and IMO the best drill any good intermediate/advanced skier should be doing..." This was around the time time that they were being promoted in my lessons.
Has modern technique now moved on to such an extent that they are basically obsolete, or has current equipment made them less effective?
I am not trying to stir up trouble; it's just that a few years have passed since my last lesson and am keen to keep up with current thinking.
Thanks in advance for any insight.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Old Fartbag, Sorry didn't mean to imply they aren't a useful drill and apologies if my initial comment came across as brusk. I do see people trying drills in the domes that are causing them more harm than good with Javelins, pivot slips and one legged drills being the main culprits. Did Scott or Mark explain to you why they had you doing Javelins turns and what the underlying issue was that they were trying to correct by prescribing the Javelin turn drill? Mark's article says they are brilliant but he doesn't imv explain clearly what the drill actually works on.
Javelin turns can be somewhat difficult to do effectively and most people initially do them incorrectly. They need a patient introduction and good demonstration. The skier needs to be athletic and at a decent level. Most people just pick up the inside ski and twist it to go over the outside ski, although looks correct isn't performing the intended manoeuvre. Another common flaw is people do them with a rigid outside leg and or by rotating the pelvis. I also don't like javelin turns in anything more than SL radius size turns as on longer turns people park and ride... I could go on...
They may very well be a good drill for you but like most drills need to be carefully prescribed to clients.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Here I am demoing a Javelin turn, note the clean edging, high inside hip and starting to develop some lateral separation.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
skimottaret wrote:
Did Scott or Mark explain to you why they had you doing Javelins turns and what the underlying issue was that they were trying to correct by prescribing the Javelin turn drill? Mark's article says they are brilliant but he doesn't imv explain clearly what the drill actually works on.
Oh Gawd, now you're asking....it was a long time ago.
From what I remember I think he said it would help put me in a correct position for carving, while improving fore/aft balance. Personally, I found that it felt awkward when done wrong and natural when done right. After endless repetitions, my angulation/ankle flex/hip position/balance, all improved, which led to more accurate carving.
My skiing has improved considerably since then, as I have increasingly embraced remaining "stacked", while working the uphill ski (as opposed to only having it there because it's attached to me )
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
uktrailmonster wrote:
balernoStu wrote:
@andymb, might be worth phoning the slope to find out when the quiet times are and what may fit your schedule. A quiet slope makes a huge difference to how enjoyable and productive indoor sessions can be.
I always find weekdays 9-5 are always empty
I have been to Hemel weekdays 9-5 several times and found it not to be empty or even quiet.
@andymb, might be worth phoning the slope to find out when the quiet times are and what may fit your schedule. A quiet slope makes a huge difference to how enjoyable and productive indoor sessions can be.
I always find weekdays 9-5 are always empty
I have been to Hemel weekdays 9-5 several times and found it not to be empty or even quiet.
Really, not so in MK from my past experience. I've often had the slope more or less to myself - maybe half a dozen other people about. Maybe it's because I only ski there off season.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
geeo wrote:
Yes see an instructor, Javelin turns may have been great for Old Fartbag's stage of progression but might be totally useless at yours, as said above there are a ton of drills you will be able to find several instructors who rate one or more of them but they wouldn't just tell you randomly to try it.
What part of "see an instructor" don't you understand ?
If you are asking what is a Javelin turn then there is a picture above.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Old Fartbag wrote:
skimottaret wrote:
Did Scott or Mark explain to you why they had you doing Javelins turns and what the underlying issue was that they were trying to correct by prescribing the Javelin turn drill? Mark's article says they are brilliant but he doesn't imv explain clearly what the drill actually works on.
Oh Gawd, now you're asking....it was a long time ago.
From what I remember I think he said it would help put me in a correct position for carving, while improving fore/aft balance. Personally, I found that it felt awkward when done wrong and natural when done right. After endless repetitions, my angulation/ankle flex/hip position/balance, all improved, which led to more accurate carving.
My skiing has improved considerably since then, as I have increasingly embraced remaining "stacked", while working the uphill ski (as opposed to only having it there because it's attached to me )
I think I was told something similar - its to create a platform (from which to carve). As you say, great for intrinsic feedback. You don't need someone to tell you its wrong when you can feel the ski breakaway.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Ok, I have to admit that I'm a little confused. Generally a javelin turn seems to mean lifting the inside ski and having the tips of the skis cross during the turn - but there seem to be two different (?) exercises.
A couple of You-tube videos to demonstrate what I mean...
In this video the skier appears to be turning the tip of the inside (lifted) ski over the outside ski. it's not particularly easy to see from the way the video has been cut, but look at the turn starting at 54s. The commentary also seems to be saying this is what is happening.
The video doesn't specifically mention it as developing skills for carving, but I think the footage implies that. I get that it might help with balance, but is it really a good carving drill?
Here the presenter (at 1m24s) says that you pick up the inside ski and then turn the outside ski underneath it. The footage shows exactly that, in the sequence at 1m07s you can see he picks up the ski and it stays pointing in the same direction as the other ski turns under it.
This video it is clearly promoting javelin turns as a drill for short turns. I can see how developing that pivoting of the outside ski would be useful for short turns - so this seems to make some sense.
BUT, these are different exercises are they not? In the first the lifted leg is pivoted, in the second it is the leg that is on the snow...
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the first video demo is rubbish, the second is correct. confused? thats why I say Javelin turns as a self help exercise can do more harm than good
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
skimottaret wrote:
the first video demo is rubbish, the second is correct. confused? thats why I say Javelin turns as a self help exercise can do more harm than good
Agreed.
Jav's are done by Steering the outside ski under the inside ski. It can also be done by edging the outside ski and sliding under the inside as Skimotteret shows above.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
It's not the sort of drill I would feel comfortable trying without clearance from an instructor - literally, clearance of the slope.... 
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