 Poster: A snowHead
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The Ski Circus has just posted its new piste map on Facebook, and there are a few puzzling revisions: the apparent reclassification of the Zwoelfer Nord Abfahrt as a red run (formerly black piste 14), the apparent disappearance of the Spieleck T-bar (no real loss), and the "project" at the bottom of the Westgipfel. I shall be in Saalbach for a month, as from next week, so will be able to see for myself what is going on. Just wondered, in the meantime, if anyone can shed any light?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The Hinterglemm "project" is this I think — an new, short lift, number 30 on the new map.
http://www.talheim.at/saalbach-hinterglemm/hotel-pension/aktuelles-news-saalbach-winter/
NEW! 10er 12er gondola connecting Xpress
In summer 2016, construction of a short connecting track for 10 people from West summit Zwölferkogel - you ersparrt the rüberschieben on the big field. The path starts next to the Oberschwarzach-button lift and ends next to the Karl-Renner House / Xandl barn. Construction August 2016.
The big new addition is the new Schonleitenbahn lift with fancy new 10 seat gondolas.
Looking forward to your report after your summer visit 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@PeDaSp, A very useful and informative link, thank you. The translation above leaves something to be desired, but it now seems clear that the project in question is a short connecting 10-person gondola from the bottom of the Westgipfel to near the Xandlstadl restaurant on the Zwoelferkogel- which is what some of us suspected was afoot. I'm sure that it will prove to be a welcome addition to the system, as the tramp across the field was a little inconvenient.
I note also that they are improving the lower part of piste 4, leading to the clanky, old Limberglift (which should also be replaced). It would be good if they could, at the same time, do something about the anomaly of piste 4 emerging slightly too low for anyone wishing to cross onto piste 2b (and possibly in a hurry to get to the bottom of the Schoenleitenbahn before it closes), thereby necessitating either a short climb or a slow, inconvenient ascent of Schattberg. However it may be that they would find it difficult to do anything about this, owing to the lie of the land.
if piste 14 has indeed been reclassified, it's puzzling, because it was arguably the Ski Circus's nicest black, and it's not as if there are so many nice blacks that they can afford to lose one.
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@Tatman's Tours, yes, very curious that they have reclassified piste 14 as red. I'm not aware of any Austrian or EU rules that force certain classifications dependant on various criteria. e.g.: slope angle, terrain, length, snow cover etc. There was an attempt to bring in EU "harmonisation" a few years ago, so that a red in Saalbach would be the same difficulty as a red in Meribel for instance. But there was huge resistance from the different resorts, mainly because they all wanted to show they had a range of slope difficulty.
But perhaps they have had pretty low usage of the Zwolfer-Nordbahn lift, as so many folks would be put-off as it's pure black. So they have bitten the bullet and declared it to be red. To be fair, Saalbach-Hinterglemm is never a destination (and would never be a destination) for those on the hunt for really challenging on-piste skiing — it's far more a family orientated resort IMHO. All the more so given the link to Fieberbrunn.
But you know far more than me about Saalbach, so it would be good to hear your opinion. Do you think that piste 14 was a black in the way that the Schattberg is?
Meanwhile of course, the new lifts linking St. Anton to it's neighbours means that the Saalbach-Hinterglemm website is going to have to adjust it's claims about being the largest ski resort in Austria / linked ski area etc. But perhaps they will, technically, still be the largest resort?
http://www.stantonamarlberg.com/en/winter/ski-area/closing-the-loop-with-the-flexenbahn
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@PeDaSp, When I first did piste 14 about 12 years ago, I rated it as amongst the most challenging black runs I'd done (and I'd skied many times down blacks like the Swiss Wall/Chavanettes at Avoriaz, Tortin at Verbier and the Tunnel Run at Alpe-d'Huez - to name but three good ones that spring to mind), certainly a lot steeper than the Ahorn run at Mayrhofen and considerably steeper than black piste 1 at Saalbach (Schattberg Nord Abfahrt). And it made La face at Meribel seem very tame. However the next couple of times I did it, I found it less of a challenge and moderated my opinion. I was a little confused about it, to be honest, and concluded that the snow conditions and the slightly longer skis (possibly in need of a service) that I'd used on the first occasion must have given me a misleading impression.
Since then I've done it many times and have had plenty of opportunity to reappraise it and develop a fondness for it. It's a very satisfying run to do, being scenic and usually quiet. Also, being north-facing, the snow is usually good, even in late season, warm weather. There are really only two very steep sections - at the very beginning, if you go through a gap in the fence just below the Zwoelferkogelbahn top station, and at the very end, where you descend to the valley floor. Both of those steep sections have easier (red) detours around them, for the benefit of less confident/competent skiers. This makes it a suitable run for any good intermediate skier and is probably the reason for its reclassification. The long middle section is within the ability of most skiers, bar novices.
I know that the lift company has worked on it and "improved" it - a couple of summers ago I remember watching (from the Sonnhof on the opposite side of the valley) bulldozers working on the steepish section that is just above the really steep final descent. I have a feeling that the section in question may now be easier and wider than previously - also safer, as there are safety fences on the left-hand bend that may not have been there before. Also the easier, "red" detour around the final descent may have been created since I first tackled the run - I say that because I didn't notice the detour, or any sign inviting the more faint-hearted to use it. (It's actually quite useful, because the initial steep drop-off on the final stretch isn't always enticing, depending on snow conditions, weather, what's been consumed at lunch time, and the state of one's legs).
I'm surprised if they've taken the decision to downgrade it to red, because it's still essentially a black, unless you take the easier detours, but maybe they think that a red with optional black sections sounds more attractive to the average skier than a black with optional red sections. The Zwoelfer Nordbahn gets plenty of use from skiers doing the easier anti-clockwise circuit of the valley, or just wanting to access the Zwoelferkogel skiing area. Anyone wanting to do the clockwise circuit, or to cross the valley from the Zwoelferkogel in order to ski on the Hochalm side, has always had the option of taking the gondola down - especially as piste 14 is sometimes closed, when snow or avalanche conditions dictate.
I would assume that the reclassification has more to do with "improvements" and safety measures. However, I'm surprised, because I'd always thought that Saalbach could do with gaining a few black runs, rather than losing any. Pistes 1, 14 and 15 are/were really the only black runs of any length. As an aside, there are no doubt plenty of relatively inexperienced, intermediate skiers, who would rather tackle those blacks than blue piste 2b late on a busy afternoon in high or late season!
As for your last point about the size of the interlinked ski area, St Anton's ascendancy to being the largest will seemingly be short-lived, with the new link between Saalbach and Zell am See being developed over the next two three years. I see that this summer they're working on the area of the Schmittenhoehe down to the middle station, and next year on the bottom section, so that it will then be possible to take the Saalbach ski bus down to Viehhofen in order to access the Zell am See ski area (and for Zell skiers to take the ski bus up to the Schoenleitenbahn in order to access Saalbach's skiing). A year or two after that, if I've got it right, they will put in a lift up the other side, to enable skiers to cross between Saalbach and Zell ski areas without having to take a ski bus. Presumably the combined ski area will then be in excess of 400km.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Fri 8-07-16 5:14; edited 1 time in total
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@Tatman's Tours Fantastic knowledge, many thanks. You are spot-on, I now recall that piste — easy in parts, but then very steep in sections, esp. at the end, but with the easier red option.
I have found the blacks in Saalbach-Hinterglemm amongst the hardest I have every skied. I visited St. Anton last year, and that was easy in comparison, yet I was expecting it to be very tricky.
And of course you are right about the lift - many folks are not just using it for piste 14.
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@PeDaSp, I'm a habitual night-howler, but what are you doing up at this unearthly time? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Tatman's Tours from what I can gather elsewhere on the web, the idea of making piste 14 a red rather than a black, is to encourage folks to do the Ski Circus in a clockwise direction. As I guess many folks go anti-clockwise to avoid the "black"?
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@PeDaSp, That seems to be the only logical reason (other than that they have worked on it and improved safety), but I'm still surprised that they think it's worth "losing" a black.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Tatman's Tours Maybe they have looked closely at the stats of the lift usage throughout the resort, and have seen a significant greater use in lifts associated with the anti-clockwise Ski Circus route. So they have calculated that encouraging clockwise use will reduce bottlenecks and lift wait times across the resort. Who knows. I guess we could just ask the lift company!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@PeDaSp, I'm sure the truth will out. I'm back in Saalbach next Monday for 2 weeks so will ask around if I can. By the way, I like the look of that new 12er Express lift - a nice little addition. Surprised however to see no apparent work being done on the Zwoelferkogelbahn, which I thought was due for an upgrade (unless they've just replaced the cabins).
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Tatman's Tours, I've not heard of any plans for the Zwoelferkogelbahn; it seems to me a fairly modern, fast-ish lift with big sit-down cabins. Next on the list in the Kohlmaisbahn I understand, plus all the work for the link to Zell am See.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The Saalbach lift company has just posted this on Facebook:
"+++ New gondola in Hinterglemm +++
The 10 seater gondola "12er Express" will connect the beginner lifts in the Oberschwarzach area (below Westgipfel) with the pistes at the Zwölferkogel."
There is also an artist's impression of the bottom station of the new lift.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@PeDaSp,
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the Zwölferkogelbahn 1 & 2 are on the replacement list — first installed in 1993, so 23 years old.
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Yes, they're looking a bit old and battered, and of course they are the lifts serving the World Cup runs. Thanks for the info.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Seems as good a place to ask as any... anyone know if the newly upgraded chicken hut man is open in the summer? Might be a nice stop off for lunch while I'm trying to harm myself on a mountain bike.
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@Saalbachsnowhead, Thanks for the great pixs. Any idea what the thin pylons are going up the hill next to or behind the lift towers? In one of the pixs, the pylons are in place before the lift towers. Is it to hold the cable before it's put into place? Thanks!
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The thin pylons are those of the material lift (Ger. Materialseilbahn), the temporary lift used to move equipment up the hill during the construction phase. I must say I've never seen so many of these pylons when a lift was being built; it looks almost like one temporary pylon per final pylon, so I suspect that they may have been used here when putting up the main pylons. Or maybe it has to do with installing the cable, as you suggest. I don't know the details.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I drove past about 20 mins ago and didn't really pay much attention to the pylons, except to note that there are more appearing every day and work is progressing rapidly.
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@espri, Thanks! That explains it. Can see similar pylons on Google.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@PeDaSp, Glad you like them, I usually follow constructions each year, so thought I'd help with the online reporting. Sadly back to England now so am unable to continue... Hopefully others will be able to give some photos over the rest of the summer
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The Ski Circus web site now has photos of work on the new lifts for next season, the Schönleiten and 12er Express (+ other developments) here.
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I rode under the Schonleiten lift construction up the hill a few times earlier in the week whilst riding over the rooty mess that is the Wurzel trail. Can't really say an awful lot else though.
The OH noticed a lot of work going on over by the Limberg lift. Is anything important likely to be happening?
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You know it makes sense.
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The OH noticed a lot of work going on over by the Limberg lift. Is anything important likely to be happening?
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See comments above: "I note also that they are improving the lower part of piste 4, leading to the clanky, old Limberglift (which should also be replaced). It would be good if they could, at the same time, do something about the anomaly of piste 4 emerging slightly too low for anyone wishing to cross onto piste 2b (and possibly in a hurry to get to the bottom of the Schoenleitenbahn before it closes), thereby necessitating either a short climb or a slow, inconvenient ascent of Schattberg. However it may be that they would find it difficult to do anything about this, owing to the lie of the land."
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Tatman's Tours ah so I see!
I can also confirm that the chicken man isn't open in the summer.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I note that the downloadable, PDF piste map on the Saalbach website has piste 14 as a red (as previously discussed), whereas the interactive piste map still has it as a black. I wonder if it's simply a mistake.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 24-08-16 8:42; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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On the new 2016-17 paper map, 14 is red.
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