 Poster: A snowHead
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Having been reading FranzClammer's thread, I found the recent posts on Ankle flex quite interesting. I am also a swimmer, and feel my lack of ankle flex holds me back with frontcrawl kick.
So I decided to do the ankle flex drop test as described here
http://www.warrensmith-skiacademy.com/ski-fitness/ski-biomechanics-physiology/
I managed 13cm!! No matter which wall I tried, or how much I strained, it always came out the same.
Is anyone else that inflexible? Or am I particularly bad. Any great tips to improve it?
Not sure if age, sex etc has any relevance but I'm a 34 yo Male. Always been into sports, but my job has me sitting down for hours on end.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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That's pretty rubbish, a bit like me! CEM has some excersises on his web site. Also well fitted ski boots can help, in particular small amounts of heel lift. You will need to be careful if your boots flex more than your ankles then you risk Achilles' tendon damage.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Interesting test, I managed 19cm with right leg but only 13cm with left. Which might explain why I'm much better at turning left!
Even the 19cm is pretty poor though - especially as I reckon tall people should read higher on this test for any given ankle flex.
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I have needed to do this in a mirror as I haven't anyone to help with marking or measuring, but I reckon I managed about 11cm. It will be interesting to see if the instructors and other regular skiers manage significantly more.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
I haven't anyone to help with marking or measuring
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 Megamum, you were telling us the other day you live in a 7 person household! I bet your daughter could measure for you.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| kerb wrote: |
Interesting test, I managed 19cm with right leg but only 13cm with left. Which might explain why I'm much better at turning left!
Even the 19cm is pretty poor though - especially as I reckon tall people should read higher on this test for any given ankle flex. |
One of us reading that wrong. I though you were meant to put both heels against the wall. 19cm for me.
just tried it one legged...21 on each leg individually.
Megamum - I measured it myself by marking where my belt was touching the wall at the start and finish.
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| Quote: |
I though you were meant to put both heels against the wall
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that's the way I read it. Not sure I agree with the exercise on that website (stretching straight leg). For ankle flex when the knee is bent I think the muscle that needs to be stretched is the soleus (the lower calf muscle) and for that the back leg needs to be bent. I do it when I use my electric toothbrush - 30 seconds with each leg straight (gastrocnemius) and 30 seconds for each leg bent (soleus). My natural ankle flex is not very good - with constant exercise it's kind of OK. CBA to do the measure tonight (had several glasses of wine, might fall over....) but will try tomorrow.
This web page explains it well http://surfstronger.com/tips/ViewTip/22 (I think CEM's website has this neglected exercise too)
Megamum - you reckon people found it less weird that you were just randomly sliding up and down against a wall looking at yourself in a mirror than they would have done if you told them you were measuring your ankle flex because that was important for skiing? If yours is really only 11 cms you need to do some serious stretching.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I CBA to think about the trigonometry either, but surely the distances required for decent flexibility will depend on the length of your legs - as kerb suggested, above.
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| Thornyhill wrote: |
One of us reading that wrong. I though you were meant to put both heels against the wall.
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You are quite right the instructions say both heels, but test is equally valid and provides additional information (are both side equal or not) when done independently on each leg.
You may expect to get score a little higher when standing on one foot as you have twice the weight helping the stretch.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I CBA to think about the trigonometry either, but surely the distances required for decent flexibility will depend on the length of your legs - as kerb suggested, above. |
First thing I did as it seems completely valid, but it doesn't make huge amount of difference
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| Megamum wrote: |
| I have needed to do this in a mirror as I haven't anyone to help with marking or measuring, but I reckon I managed about 11cm. It will be interesting to see if the instructors and other regular skiers manage significantly more. |
13cm
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You know it makes sense.
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Thornyhill, I shut myself in the bathroom and looked at the mirror on the opposite wall 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Quite simply the most important factor in correctly using a ski boot, after being able to distiguish between left and right.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I'm a short @rse and I roughly estimated at around 28cm.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It's not just stretching of muscles...tendons play a big part in flex limits. With the ankle the Achiles is especially relevent.
Unfortunately i'm working on straightening my ankle more as i have been told i have too much ankle flex 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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21.5cm - been told (by instructor) that my ankle flex when skiing is pretty good.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Best bit of kit on the market to increase ankle flex etc is the Prostretch (available from CEM). Pictured is the single foot model but they also do a double footer but it's not worth the extra cost. Comes with instructions showing a number of exercises/benefits & is waaay more effective than pivotting off the bottm step of the stairs etc. Increasing the range of ankle movement will cure the pain that many people get in the soles of their feet & who think their boots/footbeds are the problem. Will greatly improve posture/skiing. Lack of ankle flex + a boot one/two sizes too big & you're screwed.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I must admit I dangle off a step holding a 15Kg weight quite a lot; and my range is only 13cm too 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
I dangle off a step holding a 15Kg weight
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what do you tie the weight to?
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pam w, I hold it in my hand - it's not the sort of excercise you're thinking of!! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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franzClammer, I bet your boots are too big - do a shell check. Any more than 20mm bin 'em. A bit under 20mm then at your rate of progress you'll be down sizing after a few more weeks of use to a 10-15mm gap (15mm max). If you're boots are too big then the pivot point of your ankle doesn't that of the boots making proper flexing of the boot very difficult. Braquage/pivot slips are a superb ankle flex excercise.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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spyderjon,
This could well be so, although I did the flex test in my slippers lol. Did you other guys wear ski boots? I think not
In any event I am looking at how you do a "shell test"
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Fri 28-06-13 15:47; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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franzClammer, Warrens flex test is done in bare feet or trainers.
Shell test = remove liner from boot. Insert bare foot & slide foot forward until toes just touch the end of the boot. Flex slightly forward at the angle to allow you to see down the inside your boot behind your foot. The shell gap in mm is the gap between the back of foot & the inside rear of the shell. Use a few different thickness pieces of wood/dowels to measure. Often easier to get someone to do it for you. Low end shops/fitters often measure by finger thicknesses but that's very imprecise & will usually lead to too big a boot.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| Shell test = remove liner from boot. Insert bare foot & slide foot forward until toes just touch the end of the boot. |
I thought you're supposed to put your footbed in, if you've got one?
Otherwise:
a) Your foot sits artificially low in the boot, below the longest part of the toe and heel 'pouches' which makes it seem tighter than it really is
b) Your arch can flatten out which lengthens/widens the foot, again making the shell seem tighter than it really is
I find putting the footbed in adds 4-5mm extra gap to a shell check in my boots.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Raceplate,
Noted,
makes sense
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Raceplate, shell checks are usually done without a footbed - this is how CEM does his, especially as he usually hasn't made the footbed yet.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm being a bit thick - what are you actually measuring? from the wall to what?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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spyderjon, It's a funny one. I've seen both methods advocated in 'how to' guides which is why I tried both methods recently to compare, ironically when I was having a shell size discussion about some possible new boots with CEM on here. It probably doesn't matter to someone of his experience because he knows that he can fit the shell tight and then make a little more room with a footbed.
I agree that most shops seem to do it without but I wonder if all the bootfitters in places like Snow & Rock realise the difference it can make? Maybe doing it without a footbed is a contributing factor to so many inexperienced skiers buying boots that are too big?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm not convinced you need a huge range of ankle flexion to be a good skier, the amount you can actively flex a boot is relatively tiny. Being generally flexible and strong is clearly a benefit, but try doing that ankle flexion exercise in a boot, you're not going to get far.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| jimmer wrote: |
| I'm not convinced you need a huge range of ankle flexion to be a good skier, the amount you can actively flex a boot is relatively tiny. Being generally flexible and strong is clearly a benefit, but try doing that ankle flexion exercise in a boot, you're not going to get far. |
Agreed. If you have a limited range of ankle flex (I do, as a result if getting run over as a kid) a stiff pair of boots will help.
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| jimmer wrote: |
| I'm not convinced you need a huge range of ankle flexion to be a good skier, the amount you can actively flex a boot is relatively tiny. Being generally flexible and strong is clearly a benefit, but try doing that ankle flexion exercise in a boot, you're not going to get far. |
It does seem to rank quite highly in a lot of very experienced professional coach's opinions.
Perhaps it's not so much the amount of travel you have, but whether or not you use it in your skiing, especially over varied terrain.
IMHO but maybe I'm wrong.
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| franzClammer wrote: |
| jimmer wrote: |
| I'm not convinced you need a huge range of ankle flexion to be a good skier, the amount you can actively flex a boot is relatively tiny. Being generally flexible and strong is clearly a benefit, but try doing that ankle flexion exercise in a boot, you're not going to get far. |
It does seem to rank quite highly in a lot of very experienced professional coach's opinions.
Perhaps it's not so much the amount of travel you have, but whether or not you use it in your skiing, especially over varied terrain.
IMHO but maybe I'm wrong. |
Under flexing your ankles is a very common problem, but I'm not sure that a low range of ankle flexion is that strong a contributing factor in that. If you can't move you ankles at all, yes, you will struggle, but as I said, the boot restricts you so much, being able to flex tonnes is not going to be that helpful for you. This is pretty much just conjecture though, I don't have any evidence to support this, but then I doubt the people saying you need lots of ankle flexion do either.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| franzClammer wrote: |
| it's not so much the amount of travel you have, but whether or not you use it |
This is key. You can have a whole range of flex ion in a dry land test, but if you ski with your ankles fixed at 90 degrees it really doesn't matter whether you can flex your knees beyond your toes when you are wearing socks.
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| I'm being a bit thick - what are you actually measuring? from the wall to what? |
just askin'
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FAQ
OK, I didn't want to admit why I was sliding up and down along a wall 
