Beginners + toddler (<3) holiday advice

A snowHead

Hi, my wife and I are beginners, me skiing (although I can, or could, snowboard), her snowboarding. I'm looking for something next winter in the alps but would appreciate some advice from those who know.

We were looking at Livigno or Les Gets based on some other snowheads threads (but other recommendations more than welcome). The major complicating factor is currently 11 months old so probably around 20 months when we look to go. Fortunately, he will be young enough that we don't have to balance half term prices and angry letters from school but he will be too young for anything slippy I think.

Our options seem to be either DIY or TO +nanny/creche.

If we DIY I guess we could take it in turns to look after the little guy (in fact we might be four adults plus two toddlers making that more feasible) but I'd worry about having enough activities to keep them busy (pretty sure they'll tire of sledging eventually).

So for DIY I'd like to know: are there typically non-TO creches available that we could put them in for a couple of days if just to break it up for them and how do you rate them? And, are there any resorts to be recommended over others for beginners with toddlers in terms of activities?

If we go TO then I guess the only question is does anyone have any experience of the creches provided by the TOs, would you recommend or avoid any?

Any tips, recommendations or horror stories would be gratefully received.

Thanks very much

A snowHead

One thing to remember is that daily routines and activies for a 20 month old aren't much different whether they are at home or in the Alps, except he might need to be more warmly dressed for outside. IME you'll get tired of pulling him back up the slope quicker than he'll get tired of sledging. A beach style bucket and spade and a pile of snow is fun (till his hands get freezing cold because he won't keep his mittens on). Lots of resorts have swimming pools. Indoors the usual stuff - some favourite toys, playdough, and, of course, naps. Having your own car can make things easier if you go somewhere you can park near tobogganing slopes etc after you've driven round slowly in circles for half an hour so the little sod will have a sleep and be bright enough to tolerate being manhandled into the layers of clothing necessary.... Twisted Evil

If you can afford to use a child specialist TO such as Esprit life will be easier, obviously and they are highly rated here. My children have generally favoured using Grandma (aka me.....) for their childcare. Far cheaper....

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

We went to Les Gets in January this year and my little boy was 25 months - we stayed with Pure Mountain (got a good deal including half-price ski passes) and we did a mixture of taking it in turns with childcare and using the nursery (http://en.lesgets.com/les-fripouilles-nursery-127686.html) in the village. Couldn't fault the nursery - they were happy to follow his usual nap routines, they seemed to spend a lot of time outside playing in the snow and the staff to child ratio seemed very high! He came back happy every day (and actually didn't want to leave!!). Worked really well for us, a week full-time in nursery would have been too much for him but a couple of days was perfect and gave us time to snowboard together. We used a sledge to pull him around the village which he loved, did a couple of trips up in the gondola and the living area in the chalet was massive so wasn't a problem to keep him entertained indoors (snowed a lot whilst we were there!). Good luck with your planning!

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@caspriddy, is the nursery that you used at the church end of the town? And how far ahead did you have to book? The other set of grandparents came to stay in our chalet this winter when grandson was with us, they don't ski, so that worked ok, but I would like other arrangements possible.

@Dogfever, you might have come across Ski Famille who are in the village and we see a lot of the nannies (girls and boys) around with the babies and toddlers. Also Ski Esprit are here too.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Take a look at Crystal's childcare offering (Pepi Penguin) - we used them in Flaine a few years ago and were really happy with it. It's Crystal's own staff and they run it in a selection of resorts (although not Flaine anymore).

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@Pamski, it was the nursery next to the tourist information centre, through the arch-way. I probably booked a month in advance (but it wasn't a peak week) and they were happy to do a mixture of half-day, full-days and days off. It didn't look full when my son was there (more staff then children!).

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@caspriddy, ah yes, I know where you mean. There was another sH who used that one, and I think she has ended up living in the village.

After all it is free

@Dogfever, Used Esprit a few times. For childcare I cannot fault them. My children when in nursery were very settled and often wanted to stay with the carers looking after them when we arrived to pick them up. Used Crystal once and found the care to be OK.

You pay to use a TO but you get some peace of mind.

@pam w, you do make a good point - I may be overthinking the entertainment aspect. I suspect grandma will be off somewhere exotic spending his inheritance but the tips and feedback on the creches is great, thanks. I'd love to get away with not hiring a car (just for the cost really) and I cannot envisage a self-drive with a two-year-old baby from Newcastle to the Alps.

@caspriddy, that's more than I could have hoped for! Almost exactly our scenario and approach - you might well have planned my holiday for me in those few lines and from your excellent blog post. I checked out Pure Mountain as well - that sounds like the kind of place we'd like and a nice small business to boot.

@pleary, @Mike-H, I am a bit tempted by the fire-and-forget (in terms of booking, not the actual child) TO approach and I am going to get quotes from a couple of TOs. If the premium (over DIY) isn't too great then I may go for it - and thanks for the feedback on the specific companies; that will really help me choose if I can overcome my cheapskate tendencies.

Thanks to all of you for taking the time to help me out.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

My wife and I and our two children (4 y.o. and 16 months) had a wonderful time at Puy Saint-Vincent in mid-March earlier this year. We booked a package through Snowbizz and stayed in a two bedroom apartment at 1600m. Do a search of this forum and of Mumsnet and you'll find many positive reviews about PSV and Snowbizz. The apartments are self-catering (although there is a fantastic dinner option) and virtually ski-in/ski-out. The Snowbizz creche, Sherpa supermarket, bakery, restaurants, bars, pizza places, ski-hire / sports shops are all within the one complex. We dropped the kids off at the creche at 9 am each day and picked them up at 12.30/1 pm and had lunch with them. The Snowbizz "pink ladies" dropped our 4 year old off at "Totons" ski-school (which is a ski-school run by Snowbizz using ESF instructors) at 10 am each day and took the 16 month old out on excursions / sledging. There were three other kids in my daughter's "Totons" class. We spent most afternoons after our youngest had had his nap building snowmen, sledging, swimming in the outdoor heated pool and going for walks. On the final two days we left the kids with the childminders from 9 am to 4.30 pm and gave them a packed lunch. On both of those days my eldest had a private lesson with her "Totons" instructor. The resort itself is small but it has some wonderful and sometimes challenging terrain. It kept my wife and I (advanced intermediate snowboarders) entertained for the week. My wife and I booked 6 days of lessons with a chap, David King (ESF), who coaches national boardercross teams. Fantastic.

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I am currently on an Esprit holiday. This is our fourth, and we have booked with them again for next season.

I have also done a couple of DIY holidays when we just had our eldest (once when she was 18months and again at 2.5yrs) with my sister in law and my parents.

The esprit holidays make is much more of a holiday for me. When we DIYed I ended up doing all the cooking and cleaning. The plan of going out most evenings fell down with not finding anywhere serving food early enough.

Another advantage of Esprit is the baby listening service so you can put your child(ren) to bed at there normal times then go down and enjoy dinner with the other parents knowing they are being loomed after in their own rooms.

All the esprit places we have been to are geared up completely for young families. Snug play area in lounge, high chairs, children's cutlery, parents stations with baby change areas, baby food, milk, bottle sterilisers etc etc. The public toilets in the hotel have steps and baby seats. Cots supplied. Even the extra supports you get with loading / unloading luggage as they know you have your hands full.

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@Dogfever, I'd recommend Esprit or Family Friendly Skiing.

I prefer Esprit's chalet hotels to their chalets (have had 6 trips with them now, our children ranging in age in that time from 7 months to 6 years) and until this year I would have always recommended flying to Chambery but discovered the Geneva transfer to their French resorts isn't that horrific (with a dose of kwells!). Like@NickyJ said, they are completely geared up to families and as you aren't tied to school holidays, you should be able to get a good deal with them.

If you don't mind a bit of DIY, have a look at Family Friendly Skiing in La Tania who we've been with twice and all the other guests we've met while there have been multiple returners - they also have some deals in January http://www.familyfriendlyskiing.com/price_special.html which might work out cheaper if you can get a good deal on flights. Their staff / children ratios have always been really high when we've been and the accomodation is very homely, nothing fancy and most of their places have hot tubs which is always nice.

With you both being beginners you could get away with a smaller resort with correspondingly less piste mileage and I certainly would think twice about prebooking a lift pass with a TO as most resorts have a free beginner lift or two which you may well be on for the first couple of days.

@chivdog,@NickyJ,Thanks for the new info and the recommendations. I think we have settled on Les Gets because if we don't decide at least that we'll still be debating it when the 2017 snow has melted.

After a bit of calling round I was reasonably impressed with Crystal who came in at around £1300 for the flights, transfers and accommodation. However, the two places listed on Crystal's website for LG don't fare terribly well on Trip Advisor. Esprit are coming in quite pricey and are probably out of our price range really.

By my estimates I can probably do Pure Mountain for about the same price as Crystal and it looks really rather nice (and seems to fare rather better on TripAdvisor). Also, when I called I didn't have to press any numbers and a nice chap spoke to me, was very helpful and said things which sounded sensible which I take as rather a good sign.

@always29, I had a look at Family Friendly Skiing as well. They do look good but I think we are settled on LG for now, like I say, we need to narrow it down or we'll never decide. If this holiday doesn't completely put Mrs DF off ski holidays (it's taken ten years to get her to agree to come) then we might give that a shot next year.

We are beginners although we will be skiing through the summer on dry slopes and the snodome at Leeds so I'd hope we could tackle a few blues right out the trap. If Scotland gets a decent fall early on in the year we might even get on some real snow before we travel.

I haven't seen any specific mention of free beginner lifts in LG. I think, unless someone really thinks otherwise, I might be tempted just to buy them up front and save any stress of getting them. If I don't have to stand in a queue on the first day there's less chance of me being grumpy and annoying Mrs DF for the rest of the day/week.

We were planning on flying easyjet NCL>GVA because I really like not having to drive to EDI or MAN - it's about ten minutes on the metro from my house which is the best start to a holiday every time. Thus far, the little guy hasn't been bothered by car rides as he seems to sleep through them so I'm not too worried about a transfer (Google maps thinks just over an hour to LG from GVA?), he's done a few decent 2-3 hour stints in the car without complaint.

It seems like early Feb is a good time to go, judging by the prices this looks like it sits between two peak periods. As @caspriddy mentioned about the slightly low altitude and worrying about snow I thought I'd rather leave it later than go early Jan. We'll probably treat ourselves to catered accommodation, at the moment it looks like Pure Mountain. For accommodation, flights, transfers, passes, hire, lessons and 50% nursery I think it comes in around £2-2.3k (depending on what I can get the flights for and exchange rates) plus spending money which doesn't sound unreasonable for two skiing plus toddler?

Thanks to all for their help. Getting excited already. I might get booking tomorrow. Just have to wait for easyjet to release their winter flights.

You know it makes sense.

@Dogfever, the French school holidays start 4 February. Make sure you don't hit that very busy month.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@Dogfever, the only free lifts are the magic carpets up on the Chavannes area so you will need lift passes. And in any case once you have your passes you can happily go up and down oth the gondolas with your son. I am sure you will end up going round and round the village on the little train, it always seems full of small people.
You could go for the week of 28th January.
Good luck with all the booking stuff.

A snowHead

@Pamski, Thanks for the clarification on the lifts. I will definitely get myself a pass. Mrs DF is a bit unclear about exactly how much boarding she will be doing. I'm pretty sure she's only really agreed because mention was made of a hot tub. So I might play it by ear with her pass. I think pds do a half day flexible start pass so that might end up more effective.

For dates it turns out to be roughly the same price to do early March so we may do that. My thinking is that we should be less worried about snow and get slightly better weather, neither of us are likely to do much in poor visibility.

A snowHead

@Dogfever, check French holidays, which run into March. The week after they end is a good week to choose.

To get the best out of the holiday, build in some lessons.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@pam w, Hi, I checked with the chalet provider, my assumption was that peak rates would coincide with holiday season although if they primarily deal with UK clients I guess that assumption was flawed. Looks like the second week of March is the ticket. Thanks for the tip.

I'm definitely doing lessons. I had already priced in 5 half days for each of us. I was surprised how reasonable group lessons were to be honest. Even private lessons weren't too bad.

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@Dogfever,
I have taken my little one skiing with us since he was 11 months old. He messed around on a snowboard for 90 minutes age 2 (shy of 3 by a few months) in 2015 and he did his first ski lessons this January age 3 years and 11 months which he loved (Morzine, Easy2Ride instructor was Flo).
For his first year in 2012 we went to La Tania with Le Ski. Creche was brilliant and on the lower ground floor of the accommodation (a very large chalet with around 12 families). So you could drop him off in your pyjamas and then go back upstairs for a cup of tea in bed (essential when you have a wakeful baby)! They provided high chairs/cots etc.

Even though we went with another family we found the whole eating with lots of people thing a bit much so the following year stayed in our own chalet (amazing - called Sapin bleu) with Skiv02 in Le Praz. They also do a creche in one of the other chalets (changes each year). Not bad (and you get 2 hours of ski lessons with their own instructors included too) and a lovely village.

Last 2 years we have used Reach4TheAlps in Morzine (2015 catered and 2016 self-catered). Brilliant company. Really personal touch. Provide baby gear. Great resort. We used Cheeky Monkeys nannies for 2015 and Jack Frost for this year. Both are good. They did loads of lovely activities with the children and kept us up to date with their day/met us at Pleney for lunch. We found being able to leave the children in their own "holiday home" a lot more relaxing than having to trudge them to a creche down the hill.

We have been going yearly on the 3rd week of Jan or first week of Feb each time - never a problem with snow (unlike my ladies first week of Jan trip).
Let me know if you want any more info (just PM me). Good luck.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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@pam w, 6am - that's positively a lie-in! The 2 hourly wake-ups still haunt me from those days.... Shocked

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Re passed in Les Gets we ski in Avoriaz (we went with our toddler from 8weeks old first trip)

We found the most economic solution for passes in the Portes Du Soliel was to buy a single person non photo pass for 4 days and 2 days. Why not 6 becuase as soon as you go past 4 days they stick your photo on the pass. With a 4 dayer you can share the pass. We would alternate going out morning and afternoon so we skied the majority of the week on one pass saving a lot of money, then on 1 day we put our daughter in the AVoriaz creche for a day and did a circuit buying an additional 1 day pass. This worked out well. In your case if your wife and you are not married to doing lessons together one of you could do morning lessons the other afternoons and save on pass's this way.

ps this is I think allowed in Portes Du Soliel, lets put it this way it was suggested to us by the lady in the pass office when we went to buy our passes on the first day.

G

After all it is free

@gordonrussell76,
Interesting. We came back from two Morzine trips in Jan 16. First trip was a week divided into lads first half and lasses second half (cheap way to do a short break and split a 7 night apartment across 2 groups). The lads bought a 7 day PDS pass and there were no names or photos. They gave theirs to us when we arrived mid-week and they left. Second trip was with the little boy and my other half and I bought a 6 day PDS pass each. Again, no name or photo. Didn't need to share passes that time as we had childcare. I'd imagine the sharing thing is not approved but often suggested by local companies.

Thanks to all who have replied.

@gordonrussell76,@Mountaindoc, I like the tip on the passes. I'm not sure exactly how much boarding my wife will do so I might do a bit of research over what will work best. The chalet people seem really helpful so I might ask their advice.

La Tania does sound good, as does Morzine, we might well look at those next year provided this holiday doesn't put Mrs DF off forever. Even next year the little guy will still be just shy of 2 so I don't expect we will want or be able to do much but the year after we should be good to go.

Thanks again

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

I would totally recommend Puy St Vincent with Snowbizz, the Pink Ladies are wonderful. We went the first time last year with our three year old who joined the Toton Ski class, he had so much fun and learnt so much too. He would be asking from 7am when he could go to see the Pink Ladies.
This year aged 4 (5 in June), he joined the junior ski school and was skiing down from the mountain restaurant. Dream come true, free to ski in the morning, pick up at lunchtime, back up the mountain for lunch and ski back. He even wanted to do he kids club in the evening (when he managed to stay awake).
A really fun time for everyone can't rave about it enough!

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Welcome to SHs, @Fbanks; great first post. The feedback on Snowbizz is always good - glad your holiday went so well. It's such a thrill to see the little ones coming confidently down the slope, isn't it?

Help!!

Beginners + toddler (<3) holiday advice

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