 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Extremely.
Very disappointing the little sums which have been pledged.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Perhaps crowdfunding isn't the right venue for this?
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I have been involved with volunteer "workparties" several times. Very worthwhile activity, but I won't be donating here.
Would much rather there was a distance between the cash and the NPA's .
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Would much rather there was a distance between the cash and the NPA's
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Not sure what you mean by that, @thecramps?
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@pam w, my experience of NPA's, or at least the Yorkshire dales and the Lakes authorities is that they are not efficiently run, and that their active involvement in such schemes wastes money and erodes goodwill. I'm not against the idea at all, but with the NPA's involved I don't have faith the money would be spent in the most effective ways.
Sorry.
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Which organisation is better placed/authorised to work on paths within the NPAs? This is not a rhetorical question, it's something I don't know much about.
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The ramblers association would be well placed to schedule work and organise volunteer work parties. I have been in a few of them in the past with other local groups, although they are much harder to organise these days as the NPA's can be very difficult.
It's up to the NPA's to authorize, and they don't like giving it. I suspect that they fear that if the public raise money for path repairs and provide free labour then the government will use that as an excuse to cut their budgets. It's all a big shame, but I have to add that the erosion of our mountains is nowhere near as bad as is reported. Sometimes people just need to adopt rule 5 and accept that countryside paths can be rutted, muddy , made of loose stones or really quite rocky.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I suspect that they fear that if the public raise money for path repairs and provide free labour then the government will use that as an excuse to cut their budgets.
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The US national park service (Dept of Interior) has a sneaky but effective way to deal with that. Whenever the congress threatens to cut their budgets without consulting them first, they announce they'll close the Statue of Liberty to visits due to budget cut!
The public outcry would bring the budget committee back to the negotiating table right away.
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I'm afraid Cramps is rather poorly informed. The English national parks are very efficient organisations. Their areas cover 10% of England yet their collective budget is smaller than the national opera or even the Royal parks in London. It works out at about 1£ per head of population each year.
The Dales national park has the best managed rights of way in England. It responsibilities extend to wildlife, planning, cultural heritage as well as rights of way and other forms of public enjoyment. It's budget is about £4m to £5m per year, similar to a secondary school.
The government has recently announced extensions to the lake district and dales national parks so it must think they are competent enough to improve footpath management amongst other things, into the northern howgills, Orton fells and barbon dale
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-parks-extensions-to-the-lake-district-and-yorkshire-dales-parks
The Ramblers association is a pressure group not a rights of way authority. It is an effective lobby group but has no desire to take on the liabilities of footpath management.
All the national parks in England support effective groups of their own volunteers who also help with footpath repair. However some of the work requires specialist contractors and even helicopter lifts. Not something that volunteers alone can achieve I'm afraid.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thanks, @Peter S. I'm reassured! 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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As organisations get larger they often (not always) start to "empire build" and broaden their remit. I like much of what RSPCA stands for but would never contribute to them because of some other aspects of the organisation with which I strongly disagree. Same goes for National Trust. And LDNPA so I am firmly in agreement with thecramps
The problem (which I acknowledge) is who else should do the job?
My personal preference is for one of the Conservation Volunteers organisations. But I accept that others will not see it that way
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The Yorkshire dales national park is not exactly a big organisation. It has about 90 full time equivalent staff...... about the same as a secondary school ?
The lake district is bigger but so is it's population, (about 50,000) and perhaps 10million visitors a year.
The national parks, national trust, water companies landowners etc will work with volunteers and anyone else to fix the fells, but that is not the same as a rights of way authority.
The lake district ski club does a brilliant job running a ski tow on Raise. It probably wouldn't be the organisation of choice to operate Espace Killy 
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You know it makes sense.
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@Peter S, Great bit of PR, but I don't agree one bit. I have witnessed first hand incompetent management and skewed priorities from national parks. And as for choppers, they only deliver materials, someone still has to lay paths, make walls and gabions etc, perfect work for volunteers. Volunteers who will keep coming back if you treat them with respect.
And as for extending the national parks, I think you will find that amongst many ordinary people who live and work in the areas proposed that the idea is very unpopular.
As for the collection fund, good luck with it. I will happily donate a day or two manual labour, as I have many times before, but as for cash, I wouldn't let LDNPA organise a village fete tombola.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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As I say all the Parks put high priority on volunteers and employ volunteer coordinators and work with conservation volunteers, corporate groups, out reach, youth groups nd organisations such as Help for Heros. There is plenty of work to do but it costs money. It costs money to coordinate and equip volunteers.
As I understand it many of the residents are only too keen to be in a national park because they value the protection from commercial wind, solar farms and large scale housing and infrastructure corridors. Businesses see marketing benefits through association with the lake district and Dales national parks.
Cumbria, the county you live in, markets itself as 'Cumbria, the lake District', such is its marketing penetration.
What is your experience with national park authorities?
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Poster: A snowHead
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I think this is the first time that the governance of National Parks has given rise to a Snowheads argument! A bit more interesting than helmets or whether anyone lied about witnessing puking and pissing in Solden.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Peter S wrote: |
| As I say all the Parks put high priority on volunteers |
Do they? Give examples
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| pam w wrote: |
| I think this is the first time that the governance of National Parks has given rise to a Snowheads argument! A bit more interesting than helmets or whether anyone lied about witnessing puking and pissing in Solden. |
Couldn't agree more. Governance of national parks is close to our hearts, especially as mrsthecramps father owns a small farm in the proposed park expansion.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 11-05-16 22:58; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I spent most of my childhood in the dales, and most of my adulthood has been based in Cumbria. Cumbria might market us as "Cumbria, the Lake district", but are you suggesting we had a say so in that?
Most of Cumbria isn't the lakes!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Peter S, What is your experience of any of this?
Have you ever contributed? If so, in what way?
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