 Poster: A snowHead
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After I completely wrecked the bases of my Atomic Aspects on the SOPiB, I went looking for a new set of skis. I am now the proud owner of some Whiteout Directors, soon to be fitted with Dynafit Radical 2.0 bindings. My Atomic's skins are about 10mm narrower at the tip and tail, and about 20cm narrower at the waist. I know the received wisdom is that skins should cover the whole base, and that anything less compromises grip, but I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's tried it. Is it a real no-no, or is it feasible?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Best plan is to split them - if you can bear it!
Get a sharp knife and cut down the middle near the tip and tail so you can position the skins near the edge. Apparently, this works well but I've never tried it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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That's a thought. Would you patch up the middle with a strip of something? If so, what?
I've never understood the logic of needing the skins almost to the edge. I would have thought you'd need more coverage in the centre of the ski. After all, the centre is more likely to be in contact with the snow than the edge.
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| Quote: |
I've never understood the logic of needing the skins almost to the edge. I would have thought you'd need more coverage in the centre of the ski. After all, the centre is more likely to be in contact with the snow than the edge.
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Until you're sidehilling/doing a climbing traverse 
Skins certainly don't need to exactly cover the whole base - I'm currently using skins that I cut for a 118mm ski, then cut again for a 110mm ski, then used on a 116mm ski, on my 115mm skis, and they work just fine.
2cm gap is probably too much for anything over than powder touring though IMO. But splitting them should work.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@clarky999, so what would you fill the central gap with? Duct tape?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Some people use straight narrow skins they buy by the metre however you need to have good technique and know when to fit harscheisen or go on foot.
It pretty much comes down to what you are skinning. I skin up 35-40 degree slopes so like to have some security of grip. On that kind of slope you want just the edge and a mm or 2 of base showing. If you are just skinning rolling terrain in the 25 degree range it won't be a major issue.
The Aspects are probably a much better touring ski mind.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 30-03-16 21:33; edited 1 time in total
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@clarky999, I see what you mean about the sidehilling not in powder - those narrow tracks may only be wide enough for 1/2, or even 1/3 of the ski width...
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| davidof wrote: |
Some people use straight narrow skins they buy by the metre however you need to have good technique and no when to fit harscheisen or go on foot.
It pretty much comes down to what you are skinning. I skin up 35-40 degree slopes so like to have some security of grip. On that kind of slope you want just the edge and a mm or 2 of base showing. If you are just skinning rolling terrain in the 25 degree range it won't be a major issue. |
That's another issue, I'm going to need wider Dynafit couteaux 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@davidof, Interesting point about the couteaux, though - if you're prepared to use them earlier, you could use narrower skins, and save (a bit of) weight
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| Chamcham wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
Some people use straight narrow skins they buy by the metre however you need to have good technique and no when to fit harscheisen or go on foot.
It pretty much comes down to what you are skinning. I skin up 35-40 degree slopes so like to have some security of grip. On that kind of slope you want just the edge and a mm or 2 of base showing. If you are just skinning rolling terrain in the 25 degree range it won't be a major issue. |
That's another issue, I'm going to need wider Dynafit couteaux |
The 110mm couteaux should be ok, although remember the 107mm width is the narrowest point.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Also interesting how SH spell check corrects couteaux to Cousteau 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You can buy commercial split skins which leave the central section bare, so they are adaptable for multiple ski widths. But I have always thought they would be a nightmare to both apply and remove if there is any wind involved at the transition.
The latest G3 skins have gone with a plastic tip section as they recognize that on rockered skis the skin at the tip is wasted, as it generally doesn't touch the snow.
Unfortunately I'm in the full width skins, huge grip and poor technique camp. But I only tend to tour for powder runs, rather than for the tour, so I don't suffer unduly.
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@PowderAdict, so, duct tape it is, then The only question now is, grey or black?
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You know it makes sense.
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FWIW I split some skins from a 90mm ski to fit 112mm skis. They worked "ok" for sub 1 hour skins, but I did slip in the steeper sections. I've just come back from a 3 day tour where I bought "full width" skins, they were much better and I wouldn't have wanted to be on my split ones for the steep ascents. couteaux definetely helped on icy mornings as well as full width skins!
@Chamcham, not sure what (if any) benefit duct taping the "gap" would help? It'll make them harder to fit IMHO.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| davidof wrote: |
| The Aspects are probably a much better touring ski mind. |
That's true.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| kitenski wrote: |
| FWIW I split some skins from a 90mm ski to fit 112mm skis. They worked "ok" for sub 1 hour skins, but I did slip in the steeper sections. I've just come back from a 3 day tour where I bought "full width" skins, they were much better and I wouldn't have wanted to be on my split ones for the steep ascents. couteaux definetely helped on icy mornings as well as full width skins!. |
Thanks for that feedback.
From your and davidof's comments, I'm coming to the conclusion that I probably need to repair the Aspects for true touring, and use the Directors for slackcountry
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@kitenski, It's not so much the duct tape as such, but I'm thinking that having something in the centre would make them more manageable when folding, etc. But as I've already said, I'm coming round to an N+1 quiver.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Chamcham wrote: |
| @clarky999, so what would you fill the central gap with? Duct tape? |
Haha!
Reading your later post you mean to fill the split just to make putting the skins on/off easier, rather than to cover the ski base, right?
Just don't split the whole length of the skin! Leave a little bit intact at tip and tail, and when you put them on the skis just pull them apart a bit so the skins are closer to the edges.
Note: I've never tried this personally, though a friend has and it seemed to work fine.
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@clarky999, Yes, you're right. Interesting idea re not splitting the whole way, although I can't help thinking this would be a problem on a several day tour. Back to N+1 I think...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@clarky999, @Chamcham, that's what I did, just cut a slit maybe a foot down from the top and stopped a foot from the bottom (may have been a shorter split)
Then you just stick on tip as usual and pull apart to get closer to the edges!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@kitenski, interesting to hear the experience of someone who has actually done this. I've considered it but not yet taken the knife to a pair, while I have skinned without problem on soft snow with skins cut for a narrower ski. Don't think I'd set out on a long tour like that though.
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Split skins will work fine, I almost did this to my 105mm skins after I had a mare a couple of months back thinking they'd work on my 117's........
No grip at all on the boilerplate I was trying to traverse, 1 step up, 2 steps down 
Bought wider skins instead as the wear will be evened out over the 2 pairs
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| clarky999 wrote: |
Note: I've never tried this personally, though a friend has and it seemed to work fine. |
It works fine, leave 15cm at both ends. For wider skis it makes a lot of sense, a 107mm wide skin will way a tonne (esp. if it is some G3 crap).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Bunch of cheap skates, just buy some new skins, especially as currently you can buy some for under a hundred squid.
For sure you can get away with wrong fitting skins but as has been said all depends on snow pack.
Skins can go from being absolutely no hassle to being a complete PITA be it issues of glue, sizing or being too wet etc etc. Snow build up under wrong fitting skins with heavy soft snow will add to the problems with wet skins and will get worse if you climb and temps freeze so skins will then ice up.
And God forbid you might actually have to think about the others you are with in your group, if you end up having mares because you couldn't be arsed to buy the right kit then that's not cool on your fellow group members who are having to stand around whilst you have the alimighty of faffs with your gear!
Ski touring can and does have a huge faff factor with gear, so you have to know your kit works in all conditions and even then you can't be 100% sure.......
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@Weathercam,
A shark goes up to a killer whale, dumps an ill-looking octopus on him and says, "There you are!"
"Whaddaya mean?" says the whale.
"There's the sick squid I owe you," says the shark.
I'll get me coat...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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and another thing...
https://www.wildsnow.com/19672/ski-climbing-ski-shape-cut/
...'s all down to what you can work with, I've gone on a yomp with a guide on 65mm race skins leaving a good 40mm of p tex open and they were at least half a meter shorter than the length of his skis...on steep ice.
If I could look that fluid and composed on my immaculately trimmed skins I would be delighted.
Also the right choice of material is as important if not more so than the cut of the skin, I found using a straight nylon skin is like being spiderman pushing steep but but a real sweaty ball ache over longer ground after using mohair skins.
Horses for courses.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Sun 3-04-16 9:31; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Contour make the Hybrid Free Splitskins, I've had a pair in a box I'm supposed to be testing for over a year but so far have never got to it so can't report personally on the efficacy. @the Doc had a pair as well though and I'm pretty sure he's happy with them. This thread has pushed me into action though, so the box is on the dining table and I shall give them a go on some Ragnaroks, plenty windy enough here today to give the buggerment factor a test on the balcony never mind the hill!
Couple of vids from windy cols on YouTube if you search contour hybrid free splitskins.
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I hired touring skis for one day a few weeks ago. I have skinned before but usually only when there are no other decent off piste options and preferably skinning no more than an hour.
The trip we were doing actually entailed skinning for ninety minutes. Our guide looked at the skins I had hired before we set off and said that they looked a bit too narrow, but should be OK for what we were intending to do. As it turned out the track had been set a bit steeper than the guides had expected and it was a bit more icy. I had great difficulty on a lot of the turns whether trying to kick turn or just slowly manouvere round on some of the shallower turns as the skis kept slipping away.
The result was I had to use a lot of energy supporting myself on my poles and labouring around. That also meant that I was losing time. The skins were visibly old did and did not seem to have the amount of glide I was expecting so I lost even more time. The end result was that I finished about fifteen minutes behind the slowest member of the group and had used much more energy.
I now have new skis with touring bindings and bought pre-cut skins online which fit perfectly.
I would advise anyone therefore to get skins which fit exactly how they should. If you expect to use the kit for a number of years I see no point in scrimping moneywise and you will probably get a lot more enjoyment.
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You know it makes sense.
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| richjp wrote: |
As it turned out the track had been set a bit steeper than the guides had expected and it was a bit more icy. I had great difficulty on a lot of the turns whether trying to kick turn or just slowly manoeuvre round on some of the shallower turns as the skis kept slipping away.
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Did you actually have to pay this guide bloke?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Weathercam, still not tried them, so can't report. Maybe Col de Passon tomorrow, so we'll see.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
just don't split the whole length of the skin! Leave a little bit intact at tip and tail, and when you put them on the skis just pull them apart a bit so the skins are closer to the edges.
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I did the tour of the Gd Paradiso following a guide who used skins that were split down the back 2/3 of the length - kind of like a swallow tail. These were old school skins without a tail clip. Seemed to work fine for him.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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