 Poster: A snowHead
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so - I'm trying to decide on a touring binding - I'm fairly new to skiing but am going for a full season next year so it seems to make sense to buy rather than hire.
My inexperience and tendency to fall a lot has led me towards a frame type ("alpine release"/DIN/TUV) binding despite the weight penalty
use will be mainly resort based - shortish skins, not too far from the piste, and will probably involve quite a bit of piste use. A bit of a one ski setup (I know that there will be compromises!!!!)
I'm ~72kg, 5'10 usually have binding set @ 7.5 DIN, possibly "advanced intermediate" (but who knows?!)
I'm leaning towards tyrolia/ficher adrenalin 13's (lightest of the heavyweights) but wondering if these will be overkill for me - perhaps marker tours/tyrolia ambitions would be better, but would they take the piste abuse?
Many thanks for any advice or experiences, Andy
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Welcome to snowheads.
This has been discussed many times (a quick search will bring up loads of posts).
There's plenty of folks who'll support their own purchase but I work with hundreds of these bindings every year and the Marker F10/12 Tour (either the std or the EPF width) are the best overall package.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks for the reply spyderjon - If i were to go with the F10/12 is out worth going for the EPF version? They are going on dynastar cham 97's
Thanks again, andy
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Doesn't make any difference really but as they're the same price you might as well as your skis are wider than the minimum width required. I've got small size Marker F12 Tour EPF's @ £199 including conventional mounting 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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the small ones would fit the bill nicely....my wife also needs some too, F10's for her? - (similar ability, ok maybe a bit better but much lighter than me)
could I ask why you would choose the markers over the ambition/adrenalines?, I (think) that I quite like the idea of a lower stack height and simpler transitions?
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I have just bought new equipment and I too am also only interested in occasional short tours to gain access which otherwise would not be possible. The concern that some people have about touring bindings is that they do not get the same stability going downhill as with traditional downhill bindings, although I gather that technology in that respect is improving with regard to most bindings.
Having gotten some good technical advice I also have gone for the Marker F12 and used them in downhill mode only for the first time last week with my new Rossignol Soul 7s (Yippee!!!) which are 106 underfoot. The bindings felt perfectly stable at all times and I was well pleased. The bindings are really solid and can be used with a wider ski.
The only drawback is that to change from ski mode to walk mode and vice versa, you have to take the ski off and move a lever located under the boot. That might be an issue for people doing serious tours, but for me it is not a problem at all and I suspect that mechanism may contribute to the solidity I felt when skiing downhill.
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@richjp,
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The only drawback is that to change from ski mode to walk mode and vice versa, you have to take the ski off
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Generally when you want to change from ski to walk mode, you'll want to put skins on (or off) --- so unless you are racing you'll want to take your skis off anyway.....
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If you are mainly skiing rather than touring then I wouod go with the Barons as they are a bit stronger
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| SkiingQuinHat wrote: |
| If you are mainly skiing rather than touring then I wouod go with the Barons as they are a bit stronger |
Maybe for someone weighing 110kg but definitely not for somebody who's 72kg. The added weight & high forward pressure which makes them a biatch to click in to are big disadvantages compared to the Tour.
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My wife is around 60kg and uses the Baron's without a problem. I changed her bindings from the F12 to the Barons a few years back as was not happy with the F12's. The F12's I suspect have gotten better in recent years.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| andymb wrote: |
| use will be mainly resort based - shortish skins, not too far from the piste, and will probably involve quite a bit of piste use. |
It might be different if you are going to ski only during holidays, but for me, with first backcountry terrain 10mins drive away, things are nowhere near this. I have started from exactly same point as you are starting now... and it's completely wrong 
I was like "I'm gonna do lift supported off piste only, well maybe once in a while little skin up but certainly nothing big". Well... in less then year, it turned completely the opposite way, and this year I went exactly twice freeriding somewhere where I was going up with lift, and just in last week 5 times somewhere where you are on your own, with no lifts or anything. This thing is addictive, and once you are in it, there's no way you will stick with lifts and terrains that get tracked in half hour after first lift starts. So believe me, you don't want to pick equipment which would be needed for "resort based skiing mainly" 
But putting this aside, I still do most of my backcountry with Rossi Soul7 mounted with Marker Duke... super heavy setup, but on good days, I can still make some 3000 height meters a day with 800-900 height meters/hour climbing speed. I'm sure with lighter setup it would go easier and faster, but I still somehow don't trust Dynafite (like) bindings. Yeah I know I'm wrong, as I made quite few runs with them without issue, but... One thing to consider with Marker... I have no idea about Tour, but with Duke there's one thing I really don't like... getting out and especially into bindings, especially on some steep faces (like 45+ degrees) is pain in the a**. It's so much harder to clip into Duke set to 13 then to my race bindings set to much higher din, and it doesn't matter if it's AT or race boots... it's just pain in the a** to clip in. Considering Tour is very similar design then Duke, I would assume they also have this "problem". So this might be one thing to consider. Switching from ski to walk mode is just fine. When you do this, you always also take skins on/off, which means your ski is off anyway. So for me, that's not advantage or disadvantage.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| primoz wrote: |
| .....Considering Tour is very similar design then Duke, I would assume they also have this "problem". So this might be one thing to consider. Switching from ski to walk mode is just fine. When you do this, you always also take skins on/off, which means your ski is off anyway. So for me, that's not advantage or disadvantage. |
The Tour is a totally different heel design. The Duke has the same heel as the Baron (and as on the Jester, Griffon & Lord bindings) which run a high level of forward pressure which causes the step-in issues, particularly at mid to high din settings (see my post above). The F12 EPF, F12 & F10 use the Squire heel & the latest variant from 13/14 onwards doesn't require anything like the same amount of forward pressure & also has a roller within the heel that makes it easier for those with short boot lengths.
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@primoz, are you on Strava (or drugs), just that I'd like to see your GPS track logs of 3,000m days at 800 - 900m per hour 
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You know it makes sense.
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Not on drugs, but I do have some 20 years of xc ski racing behind me with, and trying to keep active after i quit racing. Being active for me, means about 30-40h of sport per month. During winter that's mainly xc skiing, alpine skiing, running and ski touring.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@primoz, I just question your figures as I do a lot of touring and know what is achievable that's all*, and would have thought being an ex racer etc etc you'd be tooled up with HRM / GPS and be recording your workouts.
And doing 3,000m where are you actually touring on a daily basis to achieve that altitude ??
Plus if doing that much you would not be questioning the advantages of tech bindings and still be using the kit that you are on!
*I've done nigh on 800m per hour and that was a good few years ago and that was skinning up a piste (far easier) from 1,450 to 2,800 hence the fast time.
If I'm touring in powder through steep trees (many kick turns) hanging on to the back of my local Club Alpine guys where they are taking great delight in beasting the Brit then to manage circa 500mts per hour is good going. eg https://www.strava.com/activities/493991955
A Mountain guide will take an average group at around 300m per hour with rests every hour as well.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@spyderjon, my F12s are a pain to click in and out of too. Is that typical of frame bindings in general? Or just a consequence of me having a shorter BSL? I think I'm a bit littler than most of you on this thread...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Weathercam, I agree with all this. And I guess it's clear, this is not average pace, but good days, when I'm out there mostly alone, without someone to slow me down, and in conditions which allow fast ascends. I also agree it all depends on terrain and conditions, so going into 1m fresh powder, without any track, is not going to be as fast as current conditions are, when you are going early on morning mostly on top of frozen snow.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Maireadoconnor, yep, they are harder to click in to with a short boot. A big proportion of the resistance is from the strong brake lever spring and the fact that when using a short boot the brake pad is being pushed straight downwards as opposed to forward and down. Try sliding the underside of your toe lug forwards across the top of the brake pad to partially depress it and continue the movement forward to engage to boot in the toe. Also having the ski slightly forward when clicking in will help.
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Thanks @spyderjon! I'll try that out. Or better yet, I'll pester you in person in a couple of weeks 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Weathercam, @primoz, 900m / hour is very impressive. I was curious to see what a pro athlete can do and now I'm feeling a bit sick. It looks like Kilian Jornet can do over 1400m/hour 
Vertical race at European Ski Mountaineering Championships 2009 (Feb 20, 2009 – Alepago, Italy)
Elevation gain: 835m
Distance: 3800m
Course altitude: 980m – 1815m
Time: 35min 51sec
Winner: Kilian Jornet Burgada
http://www.skintrack.com/skimo-racing/vertical-speed-skimo-uphill-running-slope-angle/
I'd be delighted if I could do 500m/hour.
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@primoz, you didn't answer my question.........
And doing 3,000m where are you actually touring on a daily basis to achieve that altitude ??
I still can't quite believe you are doing that sort of pace and vertical (and on frame bindings), are you sure you're not confused with feet as opposed to meters
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@sah, Pro athletes aren't exactly touring, they are ski running. So mountain runners, that happened to have skis on their feet. I've seen some out training, and they are 'skiing' uphill way faster than I could run at that altitude.
Just to put it in perspective, 900m/hr, is 15m/min, or the equivalent of climbing the stairs of a 5 storey building every minute for an hour
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@primoz, you sure you're not a big brass band
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