 Poster: A snowHead
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Does anyone have any tips on using t-bars. They scare the living daylights out of me and one of my kids (not helped when he ended up clinging on and then heading back down the mountain 😱) Button lifts and 6 person chairlifts no problem to us but these bugs just freak me out. Everyone else glides off effortlessly and I'm profusely trying to get it away from me, cursing all the way. Most of the you tube videos are taking the mick out of people. If anyone has any tips to help me avoid looking like an idiot, that would be great.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@bambionskiis, I always choose to go up on my own if I possibly can, no eye contact with the liftie or anyone else in the queue. If lots of people there I will go up with my OH but he is loads taller than me it doesn't really work. If possible go up on the side that you will be getting off at the top, if you know! I learnt to ski in Austria in the early seventies and I remember a huge heavy wooden T-bar which would give you a hell of a bash and huge bruise if you got it wrong and fell off at the start. That was an incentive to get it right.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You can, of course, always walk up.
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@bambionskiis, They are truly awful things. Luckily they are now incredibly rare and it's very easy to go to multiple resorts before finding on. I think they tend to be more prevalent on the older resorts with the worst infrastructure so it is easy to avoid them entirely. Personally, I dislike button lifts too. I'm not going to fall off them, I just hate the amount of arm and buttock energy required to stay attached.
Specific tips for T- bars?
1. Go alone
2. Concentrate
3. Relax your body.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Dismount a t-bar first or second, not at the same time. I prefer to ride with somebody else, providing they are not a little kid and hopefully they can find their skis' edges. If there are two people on the T it is more balanced so you don't have to steer against it on the way up.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
I just hate the amount of arm and buttock energy required to stay attached
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You're doing something wrong, FTZ! My 6 year old grand-daughter, rather blasé having learnt to ride button lifts, goes up (easy lifts, granted) without holding on at all. I rode a button lift behind a snowboarder a while ago. I was initially a bit wary - then I saw him get his phone out and start texting.
I don't like T bars either. I did have a spectacular fall off the top of one, which hooked my leg and wouldn't let go, in Tignes in November. Fell straight backwards between my skis and couldn't move. Fortunately skimottaret came swiftly to the rescue.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
@bambionskiis, Personally, I dislike button lifts too. I'm not going to fall off them, I just hate the amount of arm and buttock energy required to stay attached.
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You don't need to hold on!
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When getting close to the dismount point grasp the downward bar. At the dismount point push it away and slightly to the side, ski away from the dismount area and after leave go when you are moving. The bar will shoot into the safe area and you have already skied out of the way.
If you go up with another person agree who is going to take the bar
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I feel that t-bars do a good job of exposing whether someone has good boot alignment or not. The bar blocks your hips from moving much so you get to see whether your leg shape by itself allows you to get your skis flat.
Riding the t-bars in Tignes in the autumn is easy for me as most of the other users have their boots correctly set up.
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@pam w, @davkt, it's not a question of holding on, it just that stopping the button from slipping out between my legs requires a constant upwards pressure to make sure it is firmly wedged where the sun doesn't shine. The alternative is to use even more effort clamping my thighs even tighter together. It's not a big deal, but I can't say I find it a relaxing way to travel.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I never understood why anyone has a problem if they are given some basic instructions. Biggest problem I see with these lifts is people attempting to "sit down". DON'T. You just stand upright, knees slightly bent, ski's even distance apart and RELAX. Being too stiff is just as bad as anything else. To release at the top. Take hold of bar in one hand and throw it away from you as you leave in the opposite direction. If riding with someone else, make sure you know who is going off first.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I'm not a huge fan, but I do seem to have gotten the hang of them after a few trips to Fageralm (wonderful quiet little hill between Radstadt and Schladming that's a proper throwback to the skiing of my youth). Basically it's better to go up by yourself if you can or with someone of a similar height. Get on the side you need to get off. When you get to the top simply let go and ski off to the side, the T-bar will sort itself out, it's attached, you are not.
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I grew up with T Bars and here are my survival tips.
1. Try to travel with somebody roughly the same height, as the bar is then in the right place for both of you.
2. Gently lean your inside shoulder into the other person's inside shoulder (nothing OTT mind)....helps prevent boots catching and stops one person pushing the others feet to the outside, leading to a loss of balance. If one person loses balance and falls, the other usually follows.
3. Outside person skis off, while inside person lets go in a controlled manor (to stop the thing swinging about in a dangerous way).
4. On dismount, watch out for dangerously swinging T Bars that have not been carefully let go by the person in front of you. A crack from one of these things isn't pleasant.
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You know it makes sense.
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In Austria, years ago, an instructor who had to get a whole class of us up a difficult T bar put us all on with an experienced local, to ensure we got there. I was very thankful for the solidity of my riding partner, who kept me on despite a major wobble half way up, on the very uneven track.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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So pleased it isn't just me not keen on them! We too go alone Pam, which is a pain as it takes a bit longer for us all to get there but hey; there's no rush. Our son crashed into my husband (and damaged his knee ligament) when they were getting off a t-bar a couple of years ago, so he refuses to now share!
The place we've been to is Trysil in Norway where there are quite a few of them, and as we are probably going back, myself and my son are just have to get on with it I guess.
For me it isn't "getting on" it or even riding it, I quite got used to it in the end, but getting off is the problem. My heart just races the closer we get; it's awful. There is one bar where there is a massive (well to me anyway) slope up to the flat dismount bit, so there is the strain of going up such a steep angle, then the flat area which is quite small before it ends, so you don't have much time (certainly if you are panicking like me). There is also a massive one up the side of one of the blacks which saw me chanting "breathe, breathe" the whole way up.
I see what you mean about the not attached bit queen bodecia, but there were a couple of times where it just seemed to "cling" to my jacket. Probably just me panicking.
I did get hit on the back of the head by a bar that I had missed when getting on and even with my helmet on I felt the force. Coping one in the face I would think would be agony.
Interesting comments everyone. Thanks.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Lucky you Pam - what an entirely sensible way of teaching. There is just this thing of "you're on it, and off you go". I would have loved a bit of instruction to start with. I watched a teacher with some kids on the slope last time and he was teaching them getting up after falling over which again was sensible and not something I've ever had. A good teacher is so important - as I'm finding with my 15 year old currently doing gcse's!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There are loads of t-bar (anchor) lifts in Scandinavia. Some seem to go on forever. When my son was 3 or 4 it was agony as the bar is in the back of your knees. Now he is 7 it is fine when he keeps still, but one minute he's next to you and next he's behind and hanging on. He can somehow move in-front and behind the bar at will.
If sitting on the left, hold ski poles in left hand and steady yourself with right hand on centre section. And vice versa. Though you shouldn't need to hold on. Relax as much as possible and let the lift push you up the hill. Slightly lift and shake legs/skis every now and again to stop them getting stiff. Make a phone call, send some texts (keep one eye on the path). As others have said, main thing on dismounting is agree who's getting off first. If first, just push the bar diagonally away with your hands behind your bum. If second I pull myself forwards slightly with the centre bar to be sure I'm free, and throw it away to the side.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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We were all taught 2 things by the ess a few years ago in torgon, the following two tips to make t-bar life easy
1) loops your ski poles around your outside arm.
2) hold the outside point of the t-bar in the same hand you have your poles looped around.
That way, t-bar can't go up your jacket and you also have a hand free for holding the bar etc. When you dismount as others have mentioned, just push the bar in the opposite direction to the one you are going in..and agree on the way up who is getting off first!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I hate them too, and only use them if there's no alternative.
Rule one. Go up on your own. If you go up with OH/friend etc you risk the relationship when the argument of just whose fault it was that someone fell off occurs. If you go up with a stranger, well, I don't know about you, but (unless they're french), my foreign language skills don't stretch to having a discussion as to who will get off first. I can't use mime whilst hanging on for grim death.
Rule two. Be strong. I don't know about you but my arms are pathetically weak, especially the left. Sometimes, the "pull the bar down, twist it, chuck it", just doesn't happen. I put all the effort into the pull and twist bits then lose it and it inconveniently jumps up and the tip fixes itself under the hem of my jacket whilst I am optimistically thinking I've cracked it and am attempting to ski off. Craash!
Rule three. Don't go to that resort again until they've sorted out a better lift system. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| maggi wrote: |
Rule three. Don't go to that resort again until they've sorted out a better lift system. |
I know you were being light-hearted, but you will often find them the preferred option on Glaciers, as the T Bar is attached to an A-Frame structure, which is much more self supporting and stable, when screwing into Ice (rather than Rock).
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The upside of a resort with lots of surface lifts (Ts or drag) is that they are often very quiet on piste.
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Personally I would never go up a T bar on my own it just twists you around and you expend all your effort trying to stop the bar sliding away from you. And choose someone with buttocks roughly the same height as yours.
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Rule out a lot of quality terrain in Scotland if you can't use a T-bar. The downhill section of the Car Park T at Cairngorm is particularly special and deserves a mention. The Main Basin T at Glencoe accesses an exceptional variety of terrain (3 blues, 2 reds, a very steep black and loads of off piste). Thought only light-weight snowboarders and beginners had any problems with these lifts 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| johnE wrote: |
| ...it just twists you around and you expend all your effort trying to stop the bar sliding away from you... |
Not in my experience. I always go up alone
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I'm not sure how these fair with other resorts but these are some of the tbars if anyone is interested:
http://www.skiresort.info/ski-resort/trysil/ski-lifts/#actual
My 3 bugbears Hesten, Hogegga and Setertrekket are between 1.1 and 1.6km long but soooo steep in places.
Glad it's easier now your son is older themasterpiece. I actually slipped off one of the t bars and grabbed it as it went by so hugged it instead of riding it to the end. I was shouting out to my family in front of me and they were killing themselves laughing. Went OK until the extremely steep bit at the end, but I managed to hang on and even had a round of applause from a local! I still have the bruises on my arms. I can't recommend it as a method I have to admit. Lol. I have a feeling this will be quoted on here in the future - if so, please don't give my username!!!
Thanks coddlesangers, will definitely try that next time. I have nothing to lose after all!!!
Hadn't realised that about t bars OF which makes sense. We couldn't understand why they were using a button lift (Hesten) up such a steep slope (not complaining mind you) on a truly steep slope, so presumably it's just that particular lift is easier/most suitable for the particular terrain than say a t bar.
Can't complain about crowds rob@rar certainly; perhaps I shouldn't be cursing the t bars after all then!
Scotland ruled out what...snow. Lack of blues alone does that! I'm dispelling your theory ref t bars - I'm not a snowboarder, beginner or lightweight - just someone unco-ordinated at dismounting tbars 
I can see arguments for going solo or accompanied on t bars then. Personally, even though it may be easier with two as suggested, the thought of me stuffing it up and affecting the person with me is too much. I'd rather look a prat solo!
Cheers
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have only used one t-bar in the last three years. But that was enough.
It's a long one that gives access to a red run in St Johann iT it has a very uneven uptrack right next to a wide very smooth run. Maybe the best run in the resort, and very quiet too.
I went on with my OH, who because she was leaning away, kept pushing her boots into mine. I also found my buttocks gradually working their way to the end of the bar, so that for the last few hundred metres, I pretty much was just holding on with my arms. However good the run it feeds, we didn't use it again. Back to the fast chairs and gondolas.
There is talk that this might be replaced with a gondola for next season. Fingers crossed!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I believe Frosty the Snowman and II are experts at sharing a T bar.
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Just read the headline and thought I'd pulled.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Never had a real issue with T-bars but then the beginners slope in the resort where I learnt had a T-bar so got plenty of practice from day 1.
If at all possible avoid sharing and especially sharing with small children where it's a choice of the T in the right place for you/the back of their head or the right place for them/the back of your knees.
Assuming solo and don't have a near vertical exit (Conche 2000 from Torgon towards La Chapelle d'Abondance in the PdS for example) as you near the top grasp up the pole with your inside hand and pull back. This should get you off the T and also the T free from your jacket/backpack and shouldn't require much upper arm strangth as most of your weight should be through your legs. Twist and, when you're ready release.
For boarders it seem doing it the 'wrong' way is best. I don't board myself but skied with a few and experienced T-bar boarders always recommended timmid ones leave 1 foot in - but not the one they would naturally leave in (back?). Then it's T between legs and ride side-saddle.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| johnE wrote: |
| ...it just twists you around and you expend all your effort trying to stop the bar sliding away from you... |
Not in my experience. I always go up alone |
That's fine if no queue. But pretty annoying, like any lift, if you are waiting and someone goes up alone. Especially if near closing time and there are other lifts to get... If I'm on my own and see someone is going alone, I sometimes skip round a few people and get there just before the bar comes.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Themasterpiece, at Les Deux Alpes glacier, out of season, if you get on alone, you are usually joined by some ski club whiz kid who is skiing down the slope and just makes a quick turn, grabs the bar - and you - and continues up. If you're good, you stay on. If you're not, you fall off. If you're me, you try to make sure that if you fall off, he/she does too. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I do recall a certain person of my acquaintance attempting to mount the T-bar halfway up. Unfortunately the other guy on there was chatting on his phone and didn't notice he had a companion and promptly fell off. Son no 2 was rathe r startled when a boarder joined him and shuffled on to the bar, which appeared as if he was being humped. I've had a few laughs from people on t-bars. I once shared one with a very tall man who must have had the bar round his knees somewhere.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Themasterpiece wrote: |
| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| johnE wrote: |
| ...it just twists you around and you expend all your effort trying to stop the bar sliding away from you... |
Not in my experience. I always go up alone |
That's fine if no queue. But pretty annoying, like any lift, if you are waiting and someone goes up alone. Especially if near closing time and there are other lifts to get... If I'm on my own and see someone is going alone, I sometimes skip round a few people and get there just before the bar comes. |
I wouldn't do it if there was a queue but I can't remember the last time I was in a queue of more than a few people on a t bar and never near closing time.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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They are still pretty common here in Switzerland outside the few big resorts.
The Silberwiesenlift at Feldberg in Germany is by far the worst I've seen. A short run up to a steep ribbon of ice through exposed rocks, covered in the blood of its previous victims. One family member still bears the scars (mentally and physically).
The annoying thing about it was that the only reason they used it was because their stupid piste map made it appear that the chairlift further round the corner only serves two blacks, when it actually serves the same blues as the T-bar... 
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Loads of them in the Printze half of the 4V. Love em  , and the quiet pistes that go with them. It's the killer button lift over in Les Chottes and in Grepon Blanc that get me, the later unavoidable at times.
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Huge queues for some of the T bars on the glacier in Tignes sometimes, especially if some lifts are closed for weather. No way you could go up on your own. Or if you do, when it's quiet, somebody. (usually super competent racer) is quite likely to join you en route.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Have to say, if someone joined me unexpectedly two things would happen a) they'd be met with "wtf" (not abuse just an exclamation of horror) and b) me falling off. It would definitely be like Hells bells' story. I can see it would be deemed selfish by some, I really can, but the time lost in stopping the lift to scoop me up and restart again would be disproportionate to the time for the person behind to wait for another bar. Faced with the one you describe ibexag I don't know what I'd do; it would definitely be noisy though. The approach to the exit of one of the t bars I mentioned must put you in not far off a 45 degree angle - it's a nightmare. Thanks for the description tjit- it does make perfect sense when you put it like that. So glad I'm not a boarder though - I think I'd be totally scrwd.
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| Quote: |
| or boarders it seem doing it the 'wrong' way is best. I don't board myself but skied with a few and experienced T-bar boarders always recommended timmid ones leave 1 foot in - but not the one they would naturally leave in (back?). Then it's T between legs and ride side-saddle. |
Eh, that makes no sense, even for a skier.
Ok, They're a PITA but not rocket science - and no real different to a Poma. Front foot in, facing in direction of travel, prong of your side of the T goes in between your legs, hooked behind your front leg. Put a little bit of weight towards the back, with your rear free foot on the board by the rear binding, grip the shaft of the T, relax into it and you're off. Sure you're being hauled up a mountain by your genitals, but hey, up is up.
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