Les 3 Vallees - Best resort for buying house

A snowHead

Hi

I am looking at buying a place in the French Alpes, specifically Les 3 Vallees. I understand that Courcheval, Meribel and Val Thorens are the best resorts. From what I have read, I think that I want to focus my research on Meribel. I will be there from 12th-19th March and will be viewing a range of properties.

Does anyone have any advice or recommendations, or is there anywhere else I should check out?

Thanks

A snowHead

No advice, but welcome to Snowheads, @davejuk.

You no doubt have a far bigger budget than those of us who have bought rather smaller places in rather less expensive resorts.... wink

Ah yes, one piece of advice. It's Courchevel.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@davejuk, check la Tania it might be cheaper

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Thanks for the replies.

I would rather a smaller place in the best location than a bigger/better place in a less desirable location.

I take it that I am looking in the right place with Courchevel and Meribel then?

I am looking at 2+ beds with ski in/out. I have noticed that ski in/out seems to mean different things to different agents. To me it means that you can ski up to the door and take your skis off there but to others it seems to mean up to a short bus ride?

How do you feel about ski in/out? Are you put off a place (renting or buying) that requires you to get a bus or walk to the lift?

Thanks

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I bought in Val Thorens some 30 years ago. It was the cheapest of the 3 Valley resorts, the highest, and had the longest ski season (plus summer ski-ing in those days)

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@davejuk, to me, ski in/out means you can ski to/from the door. I think anyone who says ski in/out includes a bus ride is having you on Happy

.

Personally, I am not fussed about ski in/out, partly because it often seems to result in a location that is inconvenient for other reasons, or just because the considerable price increase is not worth the minimal extra convenience. Ideally, I like to be within 5 mins walk of lifts and town. But it's just one factor - I'm happy to get buses if the accommodation has other benefits.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

The key question is what's the budget? Yes, I think a long walk or bus to the lifts does put a lot of people off, judging by threads on snowheads, especially if they have small kids. Driving to ski is fine if you have a car AND there is convenient free or low cost parking. Which isn't often the case in those big name resorts.

After all it is free

The other key question is what you want it for? Each of the 3v resorts is very different.

- Will you want to rent it out?
- Is the best ski location the most important?
- Noise or no noise?
- Is 25m2 enough or do you need 45m2 for your 2 beds?
- Nightlife?

ect etc

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Just an observation, but your OP suggests that you haven't been to these resorts. I would counsel against talking to Immobiliers until after you've looked 'round a bit. Like anywhere, their job is to sell you what they have on their books, not give advice that would result in you buying somewhere else. It's rather like choosing a specific location in London never having been there before and walking into an estate agent. I'd suggest you take a bit more time. There are lots of things to consider but here are my thoughts in terms of basic issues.

Do you need/intend to rent? Alpine ski rental season is generally limited to high summer + Christmas to Easter. Spring and autumn are dead periods. Some resorts, like Chamonix, seem to offer much longer rental periods than others. So it's important to know the effective rental season - the local Tourist Office can be very helpful in giving you an honest idea of this. If it's a mix, and you want to use the place regularly, then don't expect rental profits (I emphasise profits, not income) to do more than cover running costs and taxes etc. If it's lifestyle only, and rental income isn't a necessity, then perhaps your choice is much broader.

What's your budget? If you have the cash spare and can buy outright, that's obviously desirable. Although you still have to consider the question of how quickly you could sell if your circumstances changed. Don't assume that you can sell quickly, even in popular locations. If you need rental income to fund the purchase then I'd reiterate that you need a very clear picture of the real occupancy income you can get: think 15 weeks maximum guaranteed rentals, although this varies enormously.

If you want ski-in/ski-out as your personal preference then that's up to you. But to echo another poster, I also find that many such places are poorly placed for shops and amenities. And in the summer, they may be disadvantageously located (on a nice grass slope, miles from any amenities). In an ideal world, your place would be close to the slopes, lifts and amenities. But you'll pay a hefty premium. I personally preferred to be within 10 mins walk of amenities and lifts, even though this meant 'losing' a small bedroom, compared to somewhere further away where I needed to get a bus. Personally, having closed, underground car parking was much more important than ski-in/out, and feedback indicates that many clients think this way too. Similarly, we have central heating and hot water, and both we and our clients like the way that there's effectively unlimited hot water for baths - I've stayed in some places where the immersion heater could only deliver one bath an hour - not good when four people all come back wanting baths ASAP.

You really do need to get a detailed idea of all the regular charges you'll face, plus up-coming major refurbishment. Many apartment administration schemes will (should) also operate a Building Fund. In our place, over the last ten years, on top of regular admin, maintenance and taxes, the Building Fund has covered access road resurfacing, a new water tank, new CH boilers, new underground garage doors, remedial work to balconies and next year we'll need a new roof. And you yourself need to build up a contingency for internal refurbishment: in our case, we've updated the kitchen, the flooring and furniture, and we've paid decorators to repaint. It's tempting to defer repainting, new furniture and refurb' work, but our rental agency says that all other things being equal, client's focus will be mainly on nearness to lifts and shops, underground parking, WiFi and reasonable space per room. In addition, if there are photos' of the interior on a website, then spacious, uncluttered and smart win over cramped, fussy and tired. Lots of knick-knacks and cushions won't compensate for an obvious lack of maintenance.

And perhaps consider at least one 'satellite' resort: these are places linked by lifts and pistes to well-known ski domains, but aren't themselves so well-known (and thus cheaper). Google 'satellite ski resorts'. They have their pros and cons, obviously, but in our case, we have somewhere in a Satellite where the £/m2 is 50%-60% that of the famous name resort to which it's attached, but we ski the same slopes. It meant we got a fairly spacious 2-bedroomed place with u/g parking for the same price as a tiny studio with no parking in the Big Name resort next door.

And by the way, there's no such thing as 'guaranteed rentals'. This is just the name given to a mechanism where an Agency or developer manages your place, estimates the rentability and takes the risk on 'guaranteeing' you a nominal weekly income. Usually you have to fix a couple of weeks ahead of the season for your own use, but otherwise can't use it (even if it's empty). In which case, what's the point of buying somewhere you can't use when you most want to? This isn't he same as Leaseback - but I'll leave someone else to explain that one (or take a look at the archives).

I certainly don't want to put you off! But as I said, I'd think about some of these things and take my time looking at at least a couple of other locations as well. In our case, we did one trip out to three locations but didn't talk to any immobiliers (but did talk to hotel staff and the Tourist Offices), then a second trip out to a specific location. It was only on the second trip that we talked to immobiliers and looked at places.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

I bought a ski in ski out in Courchevel Moriond (1650) and I am fortunate that it is well situated for the local facilities. I like Moriond as it has its own ski area but it is still well connected to 1850. If you can live without ski in/ski out Courchevel Village (1550) is lovely and less expensive. You can ski back from 1850 but need to take a gondola up there. As a lot of people have mentioned you really need to consider your budget and what you intend to use the property for (i.e. for rental or personal use).

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Or you could consider Orelle, if you want value for money. Very cheap and easy to get too.

You know it makes sense.

And just a note on prices: as you can see from the posts, this is usually measured in €/m² in Euroland or CHF/m² in Switzerland. Apartments in our block are 68m² with two bedrooms, but this excludes the storage cave in the basement and one underground parking place. So it's important to check exactly what the quoted m² covers. In our village, an older apartment like ours would work out about £4,232/m² whilst a newer one would probably be 25%-50% more, due to superior facilities (like a 2nd bathroom). We also see a big hike in the £/m² going from 2 bedrooms to three, and moving from an apartment to a chalet. In the adjacent Big Name resort, you can pay 2x to 3x this depending on age and size, and like anywhere, there are some crazy multipliers if you want an infinity pool, refrigerated wine cellar, parking space for a Bentley etc.

So try and get an idea of the £/m² for a 'typical' property, then look around and see if there are any key breakpoints or 'sweet spots' in terms of size/rooms. You'll invariably find that the £/m² rises as you get nearer to amenities and lifts. Once you get a feel for m² prices, you should be better able to judge what's on offer e.g. places with suspiciously high number of bedrooms for the floor area etc.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Thank you for the detailed replies.

To clarify, when I said 2+ beds I meant 2+ bedrooms.

A snowHead

A snowHead

My guess is that 45sq m, ski in and out in a decent location in central Meribel may be beyond your budget! (I could be proved wrong if the estate agents appear to have something to show you). You might get something in one of the satellite villages like Les Allues or Meribel Village. La Tania is definitely a good place to look. If nightlife in your mind is an extensive collection of bars and clubs on the doorstep,then that might rule them out,but if all you really want is a couple of places that do live music, or a bar that turns into a club maybe you will find those other locations more acceptable. Think the about the summer too and what the resorts may have on offer.
I love the 3v, but what are the "best resorts" is a matter of personal choice (personally Meribel is my least fave as I don't like the skiing as much as the two other valleys). Ski in and out in Meribel proper will limit your choices hugely. If that is important to you, I would guess you might need to look in Meribel Mottaret, but then you lose some of the access to nightlife and it's a bit more utilitarian in feel.

Help!!

Les 3 Vallees - Best resort for buying house

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