 Poster: A snowHead
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Hope this is the right place to post this but I would like to warn people about Pirin 2000 ski school in Bansko.
Today we took the girls up for little go on skis as we arrived at hotel 3am and didn't have girls booked lessons until tomorrow but wanted them to have a chance to find there ski legs.
We were queuing for the magic carpet when a female instructor demanded to go past as she had 23 (yes 23 children in her lesson!). Hubby and my daughter move back to let them past but the instructor must have felt my daughter wasn't far enough back so shoved her twice on the shoulders. My daughter is 9yrs old and the warning is that if she felt able to do to our daughter in front of her dad then I hate to think what she would do when the parents aren't watching with those children in her care.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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23 sounds a lot, surprised you took the time to count them all though.
cant comment on shovegate as I wasn't there.
It sounds as though from "the warning is that if she felt able to do to our daughter in front of her dad" that you feel she might physically attack someone on the slopes? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@eddiethebus, we didn't count them it was what shd was shouting at my hubby and daughter that she had in her class to get on the magic carpet.
Is shoving not a form of physical attack? As it IS in my mind.
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shoving, not sure maybe (more of a probably), but again I wasn't there, I don't know you, and I don't know the instructor.
what actually happened could be anywhere between a gentle push to help her up a slope to a punch in the back of the head!
As I say, I wasn't there and I'm not about to start casting judgement on the word of one side. I've seen far too much diversity of parenting on the slopes from being screamed at for being too close too being asked to show a small child how to hit big kickers when they barely turn. Parents a weird bunch! haha
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hello from Nicky's husband
I borrowed her account to clarify for those who may be interested
My daughter and I went to the bottom of a public slope with a magic carpet as a warm up for the day ahead. We then simply joined the queue (our third time down short slope).
Ahead of us was a female pirin ski instructor with a large group of children around the age of 6. She was visibly stressed and shouted at the rest of the group who were behind us for not keeping up in a mixture of English and Bulgarian. She then shouted to my self and my daughter to step back to allow her group of 23 through. We did so diligently and without question. However the child she beckoned seemed very reluctant so she rushed over a grabbed the child, lifted them into the air and plonked them on the carpet. The child seemed visibly distressed at this. The instructor looked like she was loosing her temper. At this point she felt she needed even more room around with which to carry children, marched over to my 9 year old, shouted and shoved her backwards using both hands on my daughters shoulders. My daughter tried to regain balance and the instructor did it again. At this point I shouted at her to 'back off' and that's was no way to treat children. Maybe I could have been more subtle. She stomped off in a huff, left her class unattended, and I made a complaint to one of her colleagues. In all my years skiing I have never seen an instructor bahave in such an appauling way.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@NickyJ, I hope your girls are not booked in with Pirin for lessons??
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| NickyJ wrote: |
@eddiethebus, we didn't count them it was what shd was shouting at my hubby and daughter that she had in her class to get on the magic carpet.
Is shoving not a form of physical attack? As it IS in my mind. |
Yes, under our laws, with an aggregating factor being that it's an adult shoving a child. It's quite simply disgusting behaviour.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 16-02-16 20:40; edited 1 time in total
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| eddiethebus wrote: |
shoving, not sure maybe (more of a probably), but again I wasn't there, I don't know you, and I don't know the instructor.
what actually happened could be anywhere between a gentle push to help her up a slope to a punch in the back of the head!
As I say, I wasn't there and I'm not about to start casting judgement on the word of one side. I've seen far too much diversity of parenting on the slopes from being screamed at for being too close too being asked to show a small child how to hit big kickers when they barely turn. Parents a weird bunch! haha |
I believe it. Who's going to take time out of a happy holiday to make up stuff like this?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| NickyJ wrote: |
Hello from Nicky's husband
I borrowed her account to clarify for those who may be interested
My daughter and I went to the bottom of a public slope with a magic carpet as a warm up for the day ahead. We then simply joined the queue (our third time down short slope).
Ahead of us was a female pirin ski instructor with a large group of children around the age of 6. She was visibly stressed and shouted at the rest of the group who were behind us for not keeping up in a mixture of English and Bulgarian. She then shouted to my self and my daughter to step back to allow her group of 23 through. We did so diligently and without question. However the child she beckoned seemed very reluctant so she rushed over a grabbed the child, lifted them into the air and plonked them on the carpet. The child seemed visibly distressed at this. The instructor looked like she was loosing her temper. At this point she felt she needed even more room around with which to carry children, marched over to my 9 year old, shouted and shoved her backwards using both hands on my daughters shoulders. My daughter tried to regain balance and the instructor did it again. At this point I shouted at her to 'back off' and that's was no way to treat children. Maybe I could have been more subtle. She stomped off in a huff, left her class unattended, and I made a complaint to one of her colleagues. In all my years skiing I have never seen an instructor bahave in such an appauling way. |
Sounds entirely reasonable on your part. Speculating but could she have been unbelievably stressed out by being dumped with 3 classes worth of kids. No excuse of course but may not just be that she is a nutter.
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And they'll want more money to take them up the mountain or join a more advanced group. I kid you not, it's disgraceful. Run by gangsters IMO.
I have to put IMO, before the ultra Bansko defensive turn up.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I would have stepped forward and asked her if she would like to try that again on someone nearer her own size. If she did she would have been pushed off her feet after all it would be self defence and the only possible crime even in Bulgaria would be by her on two people. I would then have put my daughter on the carpet and followed her up and skied down to the ski school office and made a formal complaint for assault.
If she did not push me I would have made sure my child got on the carpet before the rest of the class after all an instructor should have control of the group they are responsive for. Then gone and made a complaint to the ski school.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@speed098, well, you know, I personally think Mr NJ did exactly the right thing.
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| Gerry wrote: |
| @speed098, well, you know, I personally think Mr NJ did exactly the right thing. |
+1
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You know it makes sense.
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+2 That ski instructor was having a bad day. Mr NJ had fewer kids to look after. 
Nicky, I hope the rest of your holiday goes better. I'm sure there are lots of charming Bulgarians!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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A ski instructor is an ambassador not just for the ski school the resort but also for the sport pushing a little kid is not acceptable bad day or not. Lets stop making excuses for this type of behaviour.
Fewer kids is irrelevant she should have ensured she had ALL her group together before moving into the lift area she had a duty of care which means she has to know she has all her group, that one has not gone off at a tangent or continued down if they could.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
Lets stop making excuses for this type of behaviour.
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Nobody's making excuses, but squaring up and inviting her to pick on somebody her own size and threatening to push her off her feet is not exactly being a good ambassador for polite British holidaymakers, is it? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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But it is showing her she can not get away with this if she decided to push then her problem and maybe her class seeing her flat on her back and shown up will see how wrong her attitude is. Or are you now saying we should be ambassadors when just skiing over and above protecting our children ?
I am not employed any more to be an ambassador so tough she should engage her brain and manners if not it's her issue so yes, stop making excuses for someone assaulting a child
Or are you saying assaulting a minor is ok if wearing an instructors uniform and is setting a good example?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@speed098, give over and grow up. You sound like a mouthy teenager. Nobody said her behaviour was OK and Mr NJ's reaction was proportionate and reassuring to his daughter. Yours would have given the kids nightmares.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| @speed098, well, you know, I personally think Mr NJ did exactly the right thing. |
+1 |
+2
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
| @speed098, give over and grow up. You sound like a mouthy teenager. Nobody said her behaviour was OK and Mr NJ's reaction was proportionate and reassuring to his daughter. Yours would have given the kids nightmares. |
LOL
Assault is assault and on a minor is serious, so maybe you need to grow up and learn right from wrong. Going on about being a good ambassador for country is pathetic you should be asking why this instructor was not a good ambassador for hers.
She would have had a choice back down and admit she was way out of order or at her discretion escalate the situation. Again at her discretion, so her issue, her upsetting children, her acting as a thug, but hey lets ignore assault and accuse someone of mouthing off, yes real grown up attitude Pam.
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@speed098,
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lets ignore assault
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The point is Mr NJ didn't ignore it. He acted on it. Proportionately.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
@speed098,
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lets ignore assault
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The point is Mr NJ didn't ignore it. He acted on it. Proportionately. |
Just as what I would have done was proportional.
The OP could have strait out pushed or even punched the instructor in defence of his daughter, now we may say that is not necessary. but it would be within the law to do so. And no I would not have done that, but I would have done what I said I would as that would put me between my daughter and the thug in uniform. This would stop them from doing so a second time.
The instructor could have thanked the OP for allowing the class through and then asked would he mind if his daughter took another step back to facilitate the class moving as quickly as possible, so as to not hold him and his daughter up too long, but no ! The instructor did not act proportional they acted as a thug and bully pushing a child. I value a child's safety to high to allow this thug the possibility of a second assault.
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@speed098,
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Just as what I would have done was proportional.
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So far you seem to be in a minority in that view.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
@speed098,
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Just as what I would have done was proportional.
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So far you seem to be in a minority in that view. |
That's fine we are all entitled to our own opinion I take exception though to someone saying I sound like a mouthy teenager and should grow up I expected better from pamw.
I know my actions would be proportional and legally could not be viewed any other way. If people would act differently that is their choice and respect that and commend the OP for restraint above and beyond.
But to position yourself between a minor and an adult who just assaulted that minor is also a sensible thing to do saying what I would say is clearly saying do not try that again or else, at present I am showing restraint but do not try this again I do have the right to defend myself and the ability and to defend my daughter. Just maybe a few people doing this to that person would make them stop. But making excuses for someone pushing/assaulting a minor is not acceptable and is not acceptable in court and that is all that really matters here.
Well done to the OP sorry for going a bit of tangent it was not my intention to do so.
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Just to add if the instructor had then apologised rather than try and push me, I would have accepted the apology as long as they apologised to my daughter as well, and most likely would not then have reported her.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@speed098,
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to position yourself between a minor and an adult who just assaulted that minor is also a sensible thing to do saying what I would say is clearly saying do not try that again or else, at present I am showing restraint but do not try this again I do have the right to defend myself and the ability and to defend my daughter
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I don't have any quarrel with that. I don't know where Mr NJ was 'positioned' when he shouted at the woman, but she obviously got the message, which will have been reinforced by the immediate complaint.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| eddiethebus wrote: |
23 sounds a lot, surprised you took the time to count them all though.
cant comment on shovegate as I wasn't there.
It sounds as though from "the warning is that if she felt able to do to our daughter in front of her dad" that you feel she might physically attack someone on the slopes? |
For someone who doesn't feel able to pass judgement or comment, I am glad you persevered and felt able to on this occasion.
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Wow just seen all the responses.
Thankfully it isn't the school we have booked. That is Ski Mania. I am sure I saw on their site said lessons were limited to 8 in a group. I do hope that is the case!
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You know it makes sense.
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@NickyJ, yes, you didn't imagine the limit of 8. From their website:
We operate with a maximum of 8 in a ski class, as we feel this is a safe and professional maximum (however classes usually go out with less than this).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I think youll find, In England an adult shoving, pushing or scaring a minor is considered Assault on a Child and a Schedule 1 offence.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Wed 17-02-16 10:36; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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| NickyJ wrote: |
| That is Ski Mania. |
very true!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| franzClammer wrote: |
| I think youll find, In England an adult shoving, pushing or scaring a minor is considered Assault on a Child and a Schedule 1 offence. |
So what do you suggest? That the OP should initiate a court case? In Bulgaria?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Hurtle, I don't suggest anything
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@franzClammer, good plan
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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why wouldn't you deal with this at the time in resort with the ski school she was from, is posting on here really going to make any difference
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@geeo,
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why wouldn't you deal with this at the time in resort with the ski school she was from
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they did
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is posting on here really going to make any difference
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well, I think the OP was simply warning readers that the ski school in question might not be a very good bet, which is useful. She probably wasn't expecting advice on How Not to Let Yourself be Trampled Underfoot by Criminally Violent Foreigners. .
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@pam w,
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
is posting on here really going to make any difference
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well, I think the OP was simply warning readers that the ski school in question might not be a very good bet, which is useful. She probably wasn't expecting advice on How Not to Let Yourself be Trampled Underfoot by Criminally Violent Foreigners. . |
Spot on. I know how traumatic contemplating our first ski holiday where we were going to be leaving our children in the hands of strangers was. This was a warning which I know will be found by google searches (how I stumbled on this forum many years ago looking for childcare while skiing) for other parents who are planning their trips in the future.
Thankfully the ski mania ski lessons were enjoyed by the girls and suitable group sizes
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 17-02-16 15:40; edited 1 time in total
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OK well just tar the entire school off the back of one bad instructor then, I'm sure that will stop it happening to anyone else 
And if anyone came here for opinions on where there is bad instructors no one would get any lessons apart from maybe in kazakhstan or somewhere equally remote
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