 Poster: A snowHead
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At the risk of being shot, and not being in resort to know the temperature etc, according to bergfex and snow forecast and many apps on my phone, it's saying its been below freezing in much of the Alps since yesterday and is forecast to stay cold for at least the next few days, (I'm particularly interested in morzine) how come they haven't fired the cannons up? I know places like cairngorm get them going as soon as they can, I also understand it costs a lot to run them, but seeing as the season hasn't been the greatest so far I would of thought they would pump as much snow out as possible when ever they could, just curious that's all.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Believe it or not, you can run snow cannons when it's above 0 degrees if the air is dry enough. If the humity is high then it needs to be quite a bit below freezing for them to work. It's a combination of the two.
The more important factors though are man power and water, both of which cost money. The Alps has had a fair bit of snow recently so many resorts will feel it unnecessary to turn them on. There are also water shortages in areas too which may affect things.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@notverygoodatskiing,
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would have thought they would pump as much snow out as possible when ever they could, just curious that's all.
They generally pump out the snow at night when the temperatures are lower not during the day. Certainly back in January they were blowing like mad in Morzine, huge great piles of snow around the pistes, particularly Lievre and Chamois from memory.
Wed 10 Feb, 16
17:54
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Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 10-02-16 18:09; edited 1 time in total
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The Alps has had a fair bit of snow recently so many resorts will feel it unnecessary to turn them on.
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Snowfall has been uneven. But yes, for resorts which already have all their runs open, there's not much argument for running snow-cannons. It's peak French holidays at the moment, and until 5 March, so you can be sure they'll be doing what makes sense to keep conditions in good shape.
It's unusual to see cannons running unless the temperatures are well below zero - and in my area they normally run them at night. It's unpleasant to ski through showers of ice during the day. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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They have had them on around here when cold enough. Last night and tonight is humming away!
No real need at the moment but every stock pile helps!
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I suppose I was expecting to see them working flat out as soon as the temps dropped, I've spent a fair bit of time in Finland, one year it was pretty awful for snow and they had them running 24/7, one thing with Finland is the runs are a bit wider so you didn't have to go through them and get a face full, maybe they will will switch then on tonight.
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@notverygoodatskiing, higher snow (e.g. In Morzine) is adequate, it's really not very cold overnight, so frankly cost benefit says don't bother.
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@notverygoodatskiing, temperatures in Finland are probably lower, on the whole, than in the Alps. But in my area there's 1.44m of snow in the village, so really no need. And a lot more forecast. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It's certainly looking much better on the webcams lately, surely with temps around minus 2 (in morzine today according to my app) they could of made a hell of a lot of snow in 24 hours for "just incase" I'm just aware it's been a fairly poor time for morzine this season and it soon gets washed away when it rains with the poor base this year lower down, totally understand the financial implications but surely if they can lay snow down when ever they can, that would enable them to run the season for as long as possible?
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Just checked and I can see Les gets have the cannons on 👍
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@notverygoodatskiing, but they have to feel confident that the snow will last. Given this winter, it's not been guaranteed...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Surely the more they make when they can, the more chance they can stay open and make more money? I could understand if the forecast was for plus 15 degrees in a week then it wouldn't be worth while, but with fairly cold temps forecast I wonder if they will get them cranked up for a while
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Luckily we no longer have need of them in Tignes, where the local magazine says it must be minus 3 or lower, with little wind for them to operate effectively. Additionally, some resorts are limited to how much water they can use in a season, with the earlier dry spell water may not be in abundance in some areas.
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You know it makes sense.
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I didn't really think about the wind factor, that's been a big issue for most this week by the looks of things, they should of bottled all the recent rain water 😀
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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I read that a while back, didn't realise how expensive water is in the Alps 😂
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| notverygoodatskiing wrote: |
| I read that a while back, didn't realise how expensive water is in the Alps 😂 |
well speculating here that price may be the overall cost of producing the snow. There are the obvious 'direct' costs - water and power and then the indirects - maintenance, staff, chemicals, equipment purchase, water infastructure ( dams + pipes) and compressed air.
It is the compressed air supply that can surprisingly be one of the highest contributors to the cost.
This could be a game changer in the future of snow making:
https://vimeo.com/126861487
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Patrice Lorenzi of Tignes service des pistes
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Top bloke. Met him last April 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@extremerob, interesting watching that video - it ends up being completely uninformative about the way the Snowlogic system works!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Agreed, but why would they give their IP away in what is presumably a business competitive environment.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| notverygoodatskiing wrote: |
| It's certainly looking much better on the webcams lately, surely with temps around minus 2 (in morzine today according to my app) |
If that is the PdS app, then it's worth noting that the temperature is actually for Avoriaz at 1800m. to judge the state of morzine, I tend to look at the Centre Village webcam (looking at the ice rink). If that is showing puddles, then you know Morzine is warm!
This morning looks nicer
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I use the app on my iPhone, could be a reading from someone's fridge for all i know
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Our youngest son is doing his "work experience" as a pisteur on the Pleney / Nyon Sector this week.
On Monday he was doing work on the snow canons. I learned from him that there are the 2 types of canon used on the Pleney ( 3m high and the 8m high ) make snow slightly differently. The big ones have 4 sets of holes at the top. If the temperature drops below minus 4 C water comes from the top set of holes, and air from the second set down and this makes snow as it exits, the next holes down open at minus six, and the last set at minus 8. The shorter ones have the compressed air and water mixed in the tube, and I believe operate at a slightly higher temperature. He mentioned something about 332 canons and 66m cubed of snow per hour.
The canons were running in Nyon and Pleney up till about midday today.
The reason that the Pleney sector has lots of small canons is that it is more cost effective to have canons every 100 m or so than a few big canons, and running piste bashers to move all the snow around.
I tried to get more info from him, but all he wanted to talk was how adorable the avalanche dogs are, and today was that he got to drive a piste basher around on a reasonably uncrowded piste.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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That's interesting to know, sounds like he is having a great time that's for sure
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Last week in the Dollies it was noticeable that many of the mobile fan guns have been taken down for the season. Presumably because they know through experience where they don't need to make any more snow.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@WindOfChange what interesting work exp!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I noticed a lot of guns running this morning, so it's good to see they are using them when they can, I was starting to worry they had forgot that I was going out soon, looks like they were just trying to worry me
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@WindOfChange, interesting. I am a little surprised that any of the system is reliant on sub -8C temps. Pleney/Nyon isn't that high ...
@notverygoodatskiing, worry you about what? You really don't want to be skiing on factory snow...
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You know it makes sense.
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@WindOfChange, that is brilliant for us all to have that bit of info. We can now sit around talking authoritatively about whether the temperature has enabled snow from the top, middle or bottom holes... I can understand the logic too of having the canons closer together to spread the snow over a wider area. Certainly interesting work experience.
Are you based over there as a family or is this something he has sorted on his own? Edit - think I might have answered my own question judging by your knowledge on another topic.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Fri 12-02-16 8:30; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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worry you about what? You really don't want to be skiing on factory snow...[/quote]
I was joking, I'm not worried at all, but given the choice between "factory snow" and mud I know which one I would choose.
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Poster: A snowHead
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It annoys me when there's plenty of proper snow but they spray ice around in case the poor Parisians won't have enough in two weeks time.
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