 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi there folks, in my days as a youth hostel manager it was nearly a national emergency if unsupervised young people were present. Is there any reason why guests in a catered ski chalet in France with live in staff should be able to leave their 6-10yr olds in the chalet and eat 2 doors down the road?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If the guests have an agreement with a member of staff to babysit the children for a certain amount of time for a certain amount of money whilst they go out, what is the problem 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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And if there is no agreement?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Then no, they should not be left and expect the chalet staff to look after them.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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As the chalet staff will presumabley be on their night off, I would have thought there's a pretty good chance they'll be out unless you've made an arrangement with them to babysit. So that they are live-in is irrelevant really. Why not just ask them to babysit? Most chalet staff are up for earning a bit of extra money.
EDIT: Have I read this wrong? Are you the chalet staff and have the parents gone out and just left their kids?
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 11-02-16 16:40; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Any suggestions on how to sanction that?
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| Daleskier wrote: |
| Any suggestions on how to sanction that? |
Quiet word in person, alternatively you might get on with fellow guests who are happy to stay in that night and alert you if any problems. Caveats CCB checks and all that probably won't apply, McCanns etc etc
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@Daleskier, are you the chalet host who got left in loco parentis without agreement?
Do guests pay a security deposit?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. What would the parents do if the children decide to go outside, build a snowman, get locked out and then go looking for there parents?
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@Daleskier, sanction what? Just tell us the full story then you may get more (better) answers.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'm a host.........a reasonably experienced one.........my guests are European.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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if the parents just left them behind and didn't check with you first they sound like total ar*e'ols
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We have two chalets, all the kids get fed in one and then adults in the other, the 8 adults want to leave 12 6-10yr olds in other chalet whist they eat
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You know it makes sense.
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sounds like they should have got a dog rather than had children
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I would expect most Brits to see the need for some sort of qualified childcare for this job!
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Daleskier, sounds like a logistical nightmare for the parents as well... what do guests with kids normally do?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@eddiethebus, 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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When our children were growing up, we investigated how old a child should be before being let to look after younger siblings unsupervised. Various people had said the legal age was 14, but in fact, there is no legal age. If concerns were raised, Social Services would be asked to take a view on whether the older sibling was mature enough to take responsibility for other children. I find it difficult to believe that a 10 year old would be mature enough to take that responsibility.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hmm. Presumably the kids eat early? Inform the adults that after serving the kids' supper, ALL the chalet staff will be going to a team meeting elsewhere. Perhaps put that in writing. And make sure they do go out, then if anything problematical happens, not your problem.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@eddiethebus, +1 
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If no agreement has been made with the staff to provide childcare, then they should continue about their jobs as normal, and leave as normal when finished to bed/bar/wherever. BUT they should politely point out the parents that no one will be in the chalet any longer with the kids, as the staff have all finished – and would they like to send one of the parents back over to supervise?
I.e. make it very clear they have done the jobs they have been paid to do, and have other plans/places to be, and they assume no responsibility for the kids.
Edit: too slow - what pamw said 
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Why are the parents and kids eating in different chalets? Surely they would be eating in the chalets they stay in in family groups. If they want to change the arrangements they should have the kids hanging out in the chalet they are eating in.
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@Daleskier, I can't quite get my head round this. What has been happening up to now. Do the parents hang around with the children while they have their early supper and then generally put them to bed - with someone supervising/listening out for them? And then they go to the other chalet for grown ups dinner? Are the bedrooms split over the two chalets?
Is there some sort of lounge/games room for the children to go into while the parents eat?
Or is this a problem that has just arisen - normally the people for chalet one would just get on with eating in there. The people for chalet two would get on with eating in their own chalet - but with a big group booking they want to mix it up??
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If the chalets are close it probably makes sense for the kids to eat all together. Just one meal to organise. And fun for the kids.
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I don't even think they are bothered whether we are there or not. I'm just interested really to see if this would be regarded as normal in ahem......a Benelux country!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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We often get groups here who want an early kids' sitting and then the parents eat later once the kids are in bed. There is usually at least one responsible parent in the room 'on duty' (sitting at the bar having a pint and a chat whilst keeping an eye on them  ) I don't think parents would leave the whole group of kids unattended for our sake rather than theirs!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Well, it's only your problem if your staff have some kind of responsibility. Which is why I suggest you firmly duck out of it. You can't stop the guests doing this, if they wish - you just need to take your sails out of their wind.
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@Daleskier This is a can of worms and one you should not open. With child protection issues the general view is that you are actually protecting yourself not the children. (Experience based on being Chairman of a swimming club and my wife owning a childcare/nursery business).
What happens if one of the kids makes allegations? Bumps their heads? etc etc
Unless they are paying for a service do not dragged in to this. Just point blank tell them you/ your staff are not childminders, are not qualified and will not look after their children. I dare say of you are a UK registered business you would need DBS checks etc too. If they decide they are happy to pay a bunch of people to babysit then you have a different scenario, but be careful with that many kids and one of you alone.
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You know it makes sense.
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you can't tell them in one breath that you're not qualified and offer to babysit for money in the next.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Daleskier, probably regarded as normal anywhere that doesn't have an arguably ridiculous attitude to risk as the UK.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Pam, you're right. but if they were......
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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As a chalet host I would'nt offer to babysit myself unless it was an emergency I'm not trained or insured, I'd do my damdest to find a babysitter if one was requested.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Mmmmmm. They should get a qualified babysitter end of. I recall stopping in a 40pers chalet hotel. Staff night off and those with kids left them in the chalet with a 12yr old in charge. I got back before all the parents to find mayhem - they had been riding up and down in the lift as a team and managed to initiate the emergency break. Having arranged for the pompiers to do the rescue bit, the parents came back and one particularly gobby one was shouting and wailing and threatening to sue the company. So, I just said that if she did that then I would report them to social services on my return for leaving the kids unattended. It went strangely quiet.......
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| chocksaway wrote: |
| Mmmmmm. They should get a qualified babysitter end of. I recall stopping in a 40pers chalet hotel. Staff night off and those with kids left them in the chalet with a 12yr old in charge. I got back before all the parents to find mayhem - they had been riding up and down in the lift as a team and managed to initiate the emergency break. Having arranged for the pompiers to do the rescue bit, the parents came back and one particularly gobby one was shouting and wailing and threatening to sue the company. So, I just said that if she did that then I would report them to social services on my return for leaving the kids unattended. It went strangely quiet....... |
Nice one.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@under a new name, sounds about right.
There are all kinds of 'risk assessments' to consider as a parent sometimes it is fine, other times not.
This entire business model sounds absolutely ridiculous to me and is just asking for problems.
If I have bought a catered holiday that has a split dining time with the dining in different locations then I would expect the kids to be supervised. Why shouldn't they be as the company has manufactured a way for them to be somewhere else.
If you just bring them along to the 'adult only' dinner then what is the point of having a split meal?
We offered split meals in the first season and then stopped after that.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Why are the children and the adults having dinner in different chalets? Sounds like your planning isn't the best. It is reasonable for the adults to expect to have dinner all together. OTOH I'm guessing you didn't offer child minding. Have they booked on your promise that you'll be able to provide dinner for the adults as a separate group? Do you have a tv/play room in the chalet that the adults are having dinner in?
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If they are Dutch, I can tell you, the attitude is pretty laissez-faire.
Holland being a relatively safe country and extremely bike friendly, parents allow children enormous freedom to explore the local village or neighborhood on their bikes.
Not all parents are in equal in teaching their children manners either. I hope they are well behaved. If they are Dutch, you might need to explain the English point of view on this, they might not get it.
What a very awkward situation for you.
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| Daleskier wrote: |
| We have two chalets, all the kids get fed in one and then adults in the other, the 8 adults want to leave 12 6-10yr olds in other chalet whist they eat |
Well that's reasonable - it's your business model that is kinda forcing them into it. Have a word with your manager if you don't like it. What about you all eat in your own chalet as a principle?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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They are all very pleasant and well behaved, most people from that area are. our guests specifically asked for this service type!
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Just print a few articles about Maddie McCann out and scatter them around the chalets/ dinner table. Perhaps even photoshop the face of one of the party onto one of the "Gerry is prime suspect" articles
Don't expect a tip.
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