I had a private lesson recently out in Austria: not terribly successful as the Instructor's English was a bit limited when it came to trying to understand or explain the nuances. Whilst I think that I've now 'translated' most of what I was advised, one thing which still doesn't make sense was - whilst doing both wide and short carving/edge-rolling turns down a fairly steep slope - "lift your heels as you make the turn".
I've just spent a lot of money getting my boots sorted so that my heels don't lift!!!
So, any ideas as to what this means? I felt balanced whilst executing the turns, maybe struggling to get the knees forward and far enough over into the hill as she wanted but I felt weighted over the arches to mild balls of feet. I don't think that she meant lean forward more or bend knees, etc: it was a definite "lift your heels".
Thanks in advance.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Not sure if it's the same thing but the first lesson I had for parallel turning, the instructor taught us to slightly raise the back of the inside/uphill ski when turning. If turning right, raise the back of the right ski and if turning left raise the back of the left ski. I could do it turning right but not left. I also think it was one of the worst things I was taught as I kept trying to do it and it took quite a while to get out of the habit.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
turns down a fairly steep slope - "lift your heels as you make the turn".
I think it's the steepness of the slope that might have been behind this. I think the basic concept is that its a level up from unweighting the skis to get them turned quickly to avoid picking up too much speed while pointing downhill.
I'm sure one of our resident instructors can be clearer than I can.
as for lifting the heel, they dont mean inside your boot ...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
There's a frequently used drill that involved lifting the tail of the inside ski as you start the turn, although not sure if that is what your instructor was referring to. But this is a drill, and not a tactic/skill that should be developed for regular skiing.
Perhaps your instructor was trying to convey a sense of being well balanced on the outside ski, so the insid ski feels light? Sort of a version of Harb's (controversial) phantom move?
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limegreen1 wrote:
as for lifting the heel, they dont mean inside your boot ...
OK, not being silly, but how do you do it otherwise? I tense my appropriate leg muscle and the back end of my foot comes up, and it is encased within this big plasticcy shell thing on the end of the leg!
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Am I sure that it was both heels? No. Not sure of quite a lot of what I was bring told...
Was it steep and bumpy? Good long Austrian red, cutting through and trying to navigate around a mixture of chopped-up softish piles of new snow on top of artifical hardpacky ice (so, yes, pretty bumpy).
Thanks for the vid clips - can't get my computer to do the sound at the moment but I'll have a look this evening - but that dolphin turn thing looks as if it might well kinda make sense.
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Grizzler wrote:
limegreen1 wrote:
as for lifting the heel, they dont mean inside your boot ...
OK, not being silly, but how do you do it otherwise? I tense my appropriate leg muscle and the back end of my foot comes up, and it is encased within this big plasticcy shell thing on the end of the leg!
ie... because your boots fit nicely when you lift your heels it lifts the ski.... not your heel within the boot.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
As others have posted, I think your instructor is saying to lift the back of your inside -soon to become the new uphill- ski at the start of the turn. ie you lift the ski, not your heel inside the boot.
Before the start of a new turn, your weight is on the downhill ski. To initiate the turn you need to transfer your weight to the current uphill ski, which during the turn is on the outside and eventually becomes your new downhill ski. Lifting your heel encourages you to take the weight off the inside ski and also to change edges. Harald Harb calls it "phantom edging".
Here is quite an old video from Lito Tejada-Flores that elaborates the point.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I guess it's to make sure that ALL you weight is on that outside ski. It's a drill, as noted above. I find it useful sometimes, if I'm skiing badly or vis is bad etc to do a few turns like that just to dial myself back in. If you can do it one side but not the other that's telling you something important!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
chomski wrote:
As others have posted, I think your instructor is saying to lift the back of your inside -soon to become the new uphill- ski at the start of the turn. ie you lift the ski, not your heel inside the boot.
Before the start of a new turn, your weight is on the downhill ski. To initiate the turn you need to transfer your weight to the current uphill ski, which during the turn is on the outside and eventually becomes your new downhill ski. Lifting your heel encourages you to take the weight off the inside ski and also to change edges. Harald Harb calls it "phantom edging".
Here is quite an old video from Lito Tejada-Flores that elaborates the point.
This is very old style. Some people still do it even with carving skis....soooooo not necessary.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
When learning on huge long straight skis, one of our excersises was to ski on the down hill ski while lifting the uphill ski completely, then we would start just lifting the tail of the uphill ski. So when I started carving it was natural to lift the heel as you say and it will indeed help to turn the ski, I suppose when you are just doing it you don't realise you are doing it so it is hard to explain, but the first video posted by DB is what I am trying to explain. I think over thinking each move can lead to confusion.
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mayr wrote:
This is very old style. Some people still do it even with carving skis....soooooo not necessary.
Yeah, took me a while to kick that old habit.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rob@rar wrote:
Sort of a version of Harb's (controversial) phantom move?
Why was HH's Phantom Move controversial?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Let's be clear, both skis should normally be in contact with the snow during turns and heels should be firmly in the rear of your boots without lifting from the footbed..
The lifting of any ski is usually part of an exercise.
Modern ski instruction drills may include the lifting of the rear of the uphill or inside ski, while the tip remains on the snow. There are others which involve lifting the front of the ski too but this is not in question here.
The preference to lift the rear of the ski rather than the front is because by lifting the front or whole of the ski usually encourages the skier to stand tall or rearwards, and creates a bigger problem. Lifting the rears helps the skier to become better balanced und mehr sportlich
I suspect what the instructor was trying to improve was engaging the new edges earlier by increasing pressure on the ski tips, and rather than directing the skier to pressure the front of the ski more, they suggested making the rear of the ski lighter *
Often it can give better results to give an opposite of what is needed. eg if wanting to encourage a skier to pressurise the outer ski more during a turn, an instruction may be given to make the inner ski lighter. The results are the same, but the skier may find making one ski lighter easier than trying to press down on something that is already on the snow.
* It is difficult to comment on what another instructor may have said or may have meant though.
Sort of a version of Harb's (controversial) phantom move?
Why was HH's Phantom Move controversial?
Because most instructors don't like it. I certainly don't. Promotes too narrow a platform, excessive reliance on one ski, unnecessary challenges to lateral balance at transition and encourages skiers to be a "one-trick pony" (the trick being pretty turns on easy pistes in good snow conditions). Some people have argued the the PMTS promoted by Harald Harb is more about trying to create a unique identity for his style of teaching than promoting good, versatile skiing.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Grizzler wrote:
Am I sure that it was both heels? No. Not sure of quite a lot of what I was bring told...
Was it steep and bumpy? Good long Austrian red, cutting through and trying to navigate around a mixture of chopped-up softish piles of new snow on top of artifical hardpacky ice (so, yes, pretty bumpy).
Thanks for the vid clips - can't get my computer to do the sound at the moment but I'll have a look this evening - but that dolphin turn thing looks as if it might well kinda make sense.
Yes sounds like she was talking about dolphin turns rather than lifting the tail of just the inside side.
Here are another couple of videos showing how dolphin turns are used in variable terrain
Dolphin turns - interesting. Never heard of that. Love skiing the bumps so keen to give it a try.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I think @mayr makes a valid point. Although your instructor might not have explained things overly clearly, I think she was probably trying to get you more centrally balanced on your skis. It's a common drill that they use.
After all it is free
After all it is free
My advice is:
Keep both skis on the snow and get an English speaking Instructor next time. simples
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mayr wrote:
I suspect what the instructor was trying to improve was engaging the new edges earlier by increasing pressure on the ski tips, and rather than directing the skier to pressure the front of the ski more, they suggested making the rear of the ski lighter *
I agree. I don't think the instructor was trying to get the pupil to literally lift their heel out of their boot or the rear of their ski clear of the snow.
Rather going through the motion as if you are lifting your heel will naturally put more pressure on the toes/balls of feet and move weight forwards, which I imagine was what they were trying to achieve.
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Email the instructor n send em a link to this thread
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simples
