 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi everyone,
We will be driving to Flaine for the half term week. Setting off 4pm'ish on the Friday for Dover.
Has anyone got any tips for the journey?
Any information of where we will encounter tailbacks & if possible ways to avoid them.
Also I've heard the queues for fuel can be horrible on the Motorway in France - has anybody got details of alternative Fuel stops?
Cheers
Alistair
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We will heading to flaine on the same day and I have driven down to the GM on several occassions. I wouldnt be particularly concerned about fuel stops. I would make sure I have a sanef tag to get through the toll booths as quickly as possible. I would also get into resort asap on saturday.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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For fuel, get off the AutoRoute and go to a supermarket - much less queuing and can be 20% cheaper! all have 24h card operated pumps these days.
Put grocery store into your sat nav to find one 
Don't go via Paris, stay east of Dijon
Unavoidable traffic will be crossing the Jura (after Bourg en Bresse) onwards - not really any other way.
Expect the climb from the valley floor to take 2 hours (its 30 min on a dry Tuesday).
Unless you have 4x4 and aggressive (not road bias) snow tyres. Make sure you've practiced with your snow chains! This hill I used chains on more than any other when driving Airport transfers, even though the highest point of the road is 500m lower than Val T it's much more exposed to wind.
If you are planning on driving through the night you should be OK and traffic will be relatively light.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@albrown7, I don't have specific half term advice but my tips would be as follows for your journey:
Buy the telepeage tag.
Avoid filling up on the motorway as whether or not there are queues it will be more expensive. We stop once for fuel at the same location as the overnight stop and find the nearest hypermarket. If you aren't stopping overnight there is a Leclerc near one of the motorway junctions in Reims so not too much of a diversion.
The standard route to Flaine is Reims, Dijon, A39 to Bourg en Bresse, A40 past Geneva and turn off at Cluses. Worth having winter tyres and chains for driving up to Flaine in February I'd have thought.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@allbrown, what time is your crossing? I take it you're leaving Holmfirth at 4 so at Dover for around 9pm. Should be clear for Dartford crossing. Keep eye on reports of delays at Dover. If A2 heavy on approach, try M20 and on to A20 into Dover. if this is heavy then take B2011 Folkestone Road from Courtwood interchange (old A20) into Dover.
Bottlenecks we've encountered driving to the Alps are on section after Taissey toll at Reims to where A4 splits away from A26 just north of Chalons and the again around Troyes. Can avoid the one at Troyes easily by coming off at Charmont and then taking D677 into Troyes and then D610 round the eastern side. These have been in the early mornings after a sparrows fart crossing on the tunnel. Plenty of supermarkets for fuel and a fill here should see you through to Flaine. Having said that we often stop at the Aire de Dijon-Spoy. Never found much of a queue here. If diesel is your fuel of choice then the cost on the autoroute is similar to that of UK prices.
Other Bouchon is as mentioned above from or just before Bourg en Bresse.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Fuel (diesel) on motorway is more expensive than supermarket as said but is pretty much the same price as UK. There is supermarket at J23 on Reims bypass, A4, as stated also at A39, J6, at Dole and A40, J6, Bourg en Bresse (head towards the town and you will encounter a retail park). Also head to town past the stadium off J3 of A216 out of Calais (barely out of the ferry terminal at the end of the "immigrant fence") and supermarket about 3/4 mile on left. 24 hour CC at all these. Not driven to Les Carroz for a while but used to be a Spar supermarket here with fuel which you pass on way up.
Personally the time it takes faffing about in local traffic isn't worth the hassle to me and I just fill up enough to get me to resort (Samoens) where I fill up at supermarket. When I fill up here I usually put some diesel additive in to protect against very low temperatures. The fuel will already have an additive but after a particularly cold spell a few years ago the fuel available was not adequate to prevent the diesel waxing in filters.
Tyre and chains also as mentioned.
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Dont forget the Dartford crossing is now pre or post trip paid via phone or internet. Prepay would be best, you dont want to go off to the port and then (or much later) realise you havent paid and could get stung for a fine.
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Forgot to mention that if you are taking the M20/A20 route into Dover then there are average speed cameras from just after the Roundhill Tunnels at Folkestone. 40 mph for the 6 miles to Dover and expect a European reg lorry to loom up behind you before overtaking and ignoring the limit. In poor vis, which it often is on this section, its not a pleasant experience.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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There is a new (well, 1 year old) supermarket/petrol station just before you start the climb up to Flaine. When you come off J19 of the A40 follow the signs for Flaine and it is on the right by a roundabout. When I was there last month diesel was €0.99/litre, so probably even less now. It is about 530 miles from Calais to that roundabout so chances are you will have to fill up somewhere on or just off the motorway.
The only mega queues I have encountered for fuel have been on the return journey as you approach Calais, say within about 100 miles. All the Brits want to fill up with cheap fuel and the fuel they bought from a supermarket near their destination is running out. Fill up well before Calais to avoid this.
Make sure you've got a strong solution of screen wash, nothing worse than a dirty windscreen and frozen washer jets.
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Hi got apartment in Flaine, have been driving there 4/5 times a year for the last 5 years.
Usually get Friday night 8/9 pm tunnel train and drive through the night, 2 drivers rotating every 3 hours. Kids sleep all the way in the back. Very easy drive it takes 8 hours from Calais, you can be on cruise control for hours. Top up fuel once on the way down at 1st driver change over, always on the motorway...not worth the effort coming off the motorway...Never encounter any queues. Arrive at Flaine early hours...between 6/7am. As per Chris M post supermarket petrol station just before roundabout before you start climbing up to Flaine. If driving a diesel try run the tank to the feed me light comes on a fill up to the top...the diesel here will have additives in to stop it freezing. Winter tyres or chains are essential, of arriving early, the road above les Carroz can be snow covered and icy some days after a snow fall...can't comment on the return journey as return on a Sunday so avoid change over day madness.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Remember to remove your radar detector and the mount. Not a bad idea to windex over any sucker marks. It is illegal to have one in the car. Heavy fine and they confiscate your licence.
Pay cash at the tolls or use different cards EACH time. They track credit cards.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Remember to remove your radar detector and the mount. Not a bad idea to windex over any sucker marks. It is illegal to have one in the car. Heavy fine and they confiscate your licence.
Pay cash at the tolls or use different cards EACH time. They track credit cards.
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Track credit cards? What's all that about?
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You know it makes sense.
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I guess if two credit card receipts are made a certain distance apart quicker than the time it takes to do the distance within the speed limit, you'll get a fine.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| pam w wrote: |
| Track credit cards? What's all that about? |
Computing average speed by the times that credit cards are used to pay at toll booths?
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Poster: A snowHead
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@pam w, I think @TQA has been watching too many Jason Bourne movies
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If they track cards, then what about the tags? as Bergen says, too much Bourne...this can be bad for your paranoia 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
They track credit cards
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Who does? The CIA. Best bin your mobile phone as well, I mean the GPS signal for that could be tracked. Make sure you wear a tinfoil hat as well.
Oh and a mask as the tolls have CCTV on them, best switch cars every now and then as well
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Urban Myth about average speed between tolls..... supported by often the speed trap will be a few km before a peage who radio ahead to Les Flics waiting at the Peage.
At the frequent trap just before the last peage on the way to Calais there is actually a junction between radar man and peage, but I don't know anyone who thinks they may have been clocked so use it and the drive cross country to the Port
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Am arriving in Flaine late tonight. Does anyone know if the police are checking for snow chains at the bottom of the hill? I have snow tyres and 4x4 and could do without the grief of begging them to let me up...!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thanks everyone from the comments they've been very helpful.
Can anyone point me in the direction of a map that shows where the service stations are on the way down? I'll be doing all the driving so would like to plan the stops before hand.
Cheers
Alistair
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Thanks
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@albrown7, service areas are pretty frequent. No need to plan ahead, really. I find it difficult to anticipate exactly when I'll feel tired/hungry/needing a pee. And weather makes a difference. Will you be travelling on dry roads at 80 mph or - and it happens - at 30 mph in a convoy behind a snowplough across Bourgogne? I usually do the journey in one hit but never stay on the motorway in heavy fog. And that happens too. Driving, especially at busy times means being flexible and relaxed about buggeration factors.
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Whilst we have Sat Nav, I still wind my OH up by taking a road Atlas.  The services with petrol stations are marked in a dark blue line on the French road atlas I have (standard type you buy on the ferry). Those that are more basic without cafes and petrol stations are marked in a feint line.
If you are planning stops in advance I would avoid stopping at services between 12 and 2 as they will probably be heaving at half term.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Miscellaneous other advice: Flush your screen wash out before you go, so that it's concentrate all the way to the jets. Have boots, mat (to kneel on), gloves and torch to hand (not buried in the boot) in case you need to fit chains. We find a Thermos is often appreciated (keep it topped-up even if you stop at services) as is semi-emergency food. Blankets for everyone. We get some audiobooks from the library (or download podcasts) - makes a change to music. And definitely get a SANEF tag: if nothing else, it means the passenger can stay asleep at tolls and avoids those "I thought you had the ticket?"/"No, I thought you had the ticket."/"Where's the ticket!?" conversations.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Tue 19-01-16 12:33; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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And the diesel point is a good one. I picked up a French hitch hiker a couple of days ago. He'd been towed to the garage with waxed diesel and was late for his ski lesson. The diesel had been bought down in warmer climes.
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@albrown7, I think you're in danger of over thinking/planning this.
The French are quite good as signing when the next service station and Aires (non fuel and shops) are.
As you approach one they will often list the next few with the distance plus cost of fuel.
When we're doing the drive we usually like to drive for 3(ish) hours and that used to fit nicely with a tank of Petrol, we were more disciplined when we had the dog in the car.
So as we approached that time since the last stop we'd have a quick discussion as to whether we could make the next one with the petrol we had, whether anyone in the car wanted a "comfort break" or food or driver wanted to swap.
If you're driving through the night and you as the driver is feeling fine, the rest of the car are asleep and you've got plenty of fuel then surely push on and not stop because that's what you'd planned!
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You know it makes sense.
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Of course, everyone agrees you should try fitting your chains before you go. But like me, I suspect most people don't. Let year I decided to be diligent but found it hard to get the fitting right. Then I tried the chains on a spare wheel first: it makes it much easier to fit (well, obviously, since there's not a tonne and a half of car attached) and see how the chains should sit. After that, it was much easier to arrange the chains ready for fitting and put them on for real. Some people have laughed at this, but it worked for me.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hi thanks for your comments.
I know there's tons of service areas but someone has told my OH that the aires (basic stops) aren't that safe at night. Consequently she doesn't want me stopping there if I need a snooze. Is this a load of rubbish.
Silly question but what's diesel called in France?
Also any tips for the ferry - where's best to head for so that I can have a snooze
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I agree I don't think I'd snooze in an Aire, not just for security but also you could wake up, clean your teeth, grab a coffee and croissant and get on your way - far nicer.
Diesel - Gazole!
as for the crossing... can't help there only ever use the chunnell, you'll get on the road in France an hour or so earlier than if you get a boat at the same time, that's over 10% of the drive time!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Don't assume that you'll get much of a sleep, if any, stopping anywhere, whether it's an aire or a service station. I've done this in the summer, when it's warmer, and you can have the windows ajar but still be secure. But in the winter the car soon gets freezing if the engine's off and I wasn't comfortable running the engine and sleeping at the same time. And if you're not going to sleep then you might as well be in a service station having a break. We share the driving and snooze as a passenger - hence the value of the SANEF tag not needing the passenger to wake up. We find it's really important to try and swap drivers every 2 hours or so: the tendency is to press on for another hour or two, but you pay the penalty down the line later in the drive.
Also have a plan for what to do if the weather is really bad en route and you might as well give up and stay overnight somewhere. In fact, outbound, we no longer drive down in one go but stay over, somewhere between Troyes and Besançon, stopping about 16:00GMT. Initially, I'll think that I could have driven further, but once we've stopped, I realise how tired I really am.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 19-01-16 13:59; edited 2 times in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@altis. Thanks for the links. We live in Holmfirth next to Meltham!!!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Best place for a snooze on the ferry would be the club lounge. However it would be expensive to take the whole family there.
I would definitely pay for the cheapest overnight accommodation and not risk sleeping in the car at any service station. We also never leave the car unattended at service stations when fully loaded even in daylight.
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@albrown7, it's easy to work out which is an Aire and which is a proper service station from the signs and plan accordingly. I would back the advice of find a cheap hotel if you need a snooze, but failing that go for a bigger service area.
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Supporting (and contradicting) the advice above:
Sleep
Formula1 are cheap, but sometimes have a variety of ne'er-do-wells hanging around the reception/showers. If you haven't booked the Friday/Saturday of UK halfterm yet, you might find it a challenge booking one now.
I would NEVER sleep at the basic "aire" services, and would only stop for a wee if REALLY desperate. (observing the rent-boy pickup trade at one a few years back put me off).
The busy service stations will have a steady stream of punters filling up throughout the night. If you're that tired that you cannot drive, then you WILL still get to sleep in front of the main doors! They also have decent toilets (for the family) and snacks/espresso for the driver.
Staying awake
I never listen to music, since I find the repetitive rhythms quite soporific. Audio books (Harry Potter, Breaking Dawn, etc) have enough variety that you stay interested and awake (although the year I managed to have HalfBlood Prince on shuffle was VERY weird!). Since I know those books backwards, I know listen to "I'm Sorry I haven't a Clue" episodes. It makes me laugh and engaged in the driving.
I have snacks and bottled water to hand (so I don't disturb the sleepers); a pack of mixed-fruit/nuts is good, satsumas are excellent (easy to peel one handed, and if they squirt in your eye then you'll be WIDE AWAKE very quickly).
Tolls
I've never bothered with a Sanef. There is plenty of time to jump out, run round, pay the bill, run back, get moving. The fresh air is also welcome at X oclock in the middle of the night.
Keeping the family asleep
When my daughter was very young, she got changed for bed; these days we don't bother with that.
Take a pillow and duvet/blanket for each sleeper.
Turn off your door-activated interior lights, otherwise they may wake up when you go to fill up in the night.
Use a headphone/earpiece for your audio during the night. The main radio will keep your passengers awake (like it is supposed to do for you), and with a single earpiece you can still be alert to the road outside you while listening to your audio.
Turn your phone to silent (with no vibrate). Getting regular texts saying "Welcome to France" will distract you!
Turn off the rear window winders (if your car has them). One memorable year my sleeping daughter managed to lean against the switch. The sound of the rushing wind at 2am made me think the door had opened and she'd fallen out!!!
Driving
The Journey TO Dover will probably be the hardest driving. You'll be in rush hour around the M25, in queues, looking at the clock and worrying about your crossing slot. I make my wife do that stretch so that I can rest (ready for the overnight bit).
The SatNav might not know about the latest French Roads (my old car didn't know about the Châlons en Champagne bypass), so I always make a note on a postit of the main Road Numbers and cities I need to aim for... just in case.
You'll see a number of UK plate cars "drifting" out of their lanes around 2-3am. If I'm alert and they're the sleepy ones, then I make sure I approach them slowly and then pass as quickly as I can (who wants a side-swipe?). The same goes for the Lorries when you get down to Dijon).
If you already have a perfect plan for off-motorway filling stations, then great, but if not then just work out exactly how much money you'll be saving compared to the time/hassle of leaving the motorway to find the Supermarket.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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P&O Club Lounges may well have a quiet and comfortable public seating area outside the actual lounge. On our outward trip last week we were on the Pride of Burgundy and walked through it. There was a sign saying that the area was for adults/families and no school groups were allowed, certainly worth a look.
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SANF or Not? You'll find a lot of people will tell you they're not worth it. Almost everyone who has one says they are. The people who don't have on don't have one, so how do they know? I doubt there's anyone who has got one and then decided to give it up (but there may be a few). I can understand that some people can't be bothered to do all the admin to set it up for just one trip a year. But I don't understand how something that allows you to dispense with payment and sometimes to get through tolls quicker is, of itself, unworthwhile (once you have it).
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FAQ
