 Poster: A snowHead
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A funny thing happened to me in Zermatt last week. Conditions were icy, and when standing my Bandits up in the snow outside the Henustall I hit a rock (Doh), and delaminated the twin tip at the back a little bit. (Double Doh!)
Then next day I took them to the ski shop at the bottom of the Sonnega, where he said that he could repair them, but that he would need to dry them out first, and then very kindly said that I could borrow a pair of skis for twenty four hours whilst mine were fixed.
He suggested some 1080s, but I suggested that I would like to try something a little stiffer as I like to go fast and conditions were a little hard packed, so he handed be a pair of Salomon equipe 2v sports (180), and with a grin, said that I should find these quite interesting in comparison to my B2s. 
Well, for the first couple of runs my friend was laughing his head off, because I had the continuous feeling that they were going to throw me off if I didn't concentrate on what I was doing, but soon after I got the hang of them, and wow!  With these skis I could carve and hold an edge on anything, snow, sheet ice, anything at all, it felt like going around corners on rails. At the end of the day I was sad to have to hand them back.
The next day, I'm sad to say that my B2s (176s) seemed a little unresponsive to me, and comparitively poor at holding an edge on the hardpack/ice.  Although I did enjoy skiing on them.
So here's my question, do I need to upgrade to a stiffer all mountain ski, such as the Stockli Stormrider XL, or where else do I go from here? I'm not keen on carting more than one pair of skis around with me.
Suggestions please. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Or keep them for rock hopping.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Kramer, you need new skis.  need good secondhand punter ski bargains. I sense the workings of fate.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If you're asking the question, then the answer must be "yes" 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Bandits are poo, Bandits are poo, give them away, give them away on eBay (with no reserve) ... record and play back in your sleep. 
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How much for your B2's???? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I don't think that I could sell them, more keep them as rock hoppers. I damaged the end of one of them, so even though I've had them repaired, it's probably only a matter of time before they delaminate, so I couldn't charge very much for them at all, and if that's the case, then I may as well keep them.
Masque, you're a very bad man.
What I would like to know from one of our resident experts is, if I chose a stiffer ski, which will be better on hard pack and ice, will I lose performance in slush, crud, and powder?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Kramer, I am not sure, who you are expecting to hear from, when you ask for a "resident expert" to advise you. I believe that you will have to do your own research and make your own shortlist, then go test...the fun bit
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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gregh, it's not a like for like at all, one is a race ski, the other an all rounder, but I guess what I'm trying to find out, is there an all rounder that will give me better performance in icy conditions, without sacrificing much in other conditions.
I have previously been put off the Stormrider XL by people saying that it is ski that needs to be worked to get the performance out of it, thinking that I'm probably not a good enough skier to handle them, but now I'm thinking that if I can handle the equipes then I could probably handle most other types of ski
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| Kramer wrote: |
| [b]gregh[/bwhat I'm trying to find out, is there an all rounder that will give me better performance in icy conditions, without sacrificing much in other conditions. |
tbh you need to try stuff yourself, recommendations on here may help, but everyone is very different and the XL's may suit other people and not you or vice versa
Great excuse for another trip
regards,
Greg
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You know it makes sense.
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gregh, another trip coming around in three weeks.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Kramer, gregh made an important point in his first post. If you were comparing them mainly on piste then the 2Vs should cream the B2s (which don't have particularly good edge hold in the first place - from experience of people I've skied with, not my own), but in variable, rutted or soft stuff it would be a rather different story. JT's the man to tell you about XLs vs others - but I understand that the basic point is that you'll find them much better on-piste, but tougher off-piste than the B2s. I can tell you that Legend 8000s are an excellent mix for both on and off - stiff and edgy enough for on-piste, (way more than the B2, but less so than the XLs according to JT), but still soft enough to make the off-piste very handlable - and they are beautifully responsive. Very available in France, but virtually impossible to find in England (Dynastar basically don't distribute in England).
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Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks GrahamN, that's basically the information that I was looking for.
I agree that you can't make a direct comparison between the B2 and the 2v, but skiing the 2v has shown me that I may like a stiffer ski than I previously thought. The B2s were great in the slush at the end of last year, and are pretty good off piste, but I do reckon that I could maybe handle something a bit stiffer off-piste to try and get some benefit in the harder conditions, which is what I mostly seem to end up skiing.
Is it possible to find an all-mountain ski that would come close to the performance of the 2v on hard pack and ice?
So far my shortlist for testing now includes-
Dynastar Legend 8000
Stockli Stormrider XL.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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...the other one I've seen mentioned in the same breath is the Scott Aztec (Pro version is stiffer then the "non-Pro"), although I've never come across them myself.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Kramer, let us know what you think of the Fischer AMC 79?
(Have you thought of a plate on the B2s?)
Anyone have a Volkl suggestion
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comprex, I was also wondering about the Volkl option as well.
What do you mean by a plate on the B2s? Surely that would create a dead spot?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| GrahamN wrote: |
| Kramer, gregh made an important point in his first post. If you were comparing them mainly on piste then the 2Vs should cream the B2s (which don't have particularly good edge hold in the first place - from experience of people I've skied with, not my own), but in variable, rutted or soft stuff it would be a rather different story. |
My B2's hold an edge fine, maybe they just need sharpening ? They're a fun ski and great for messing around on.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Kramer wrote: |
| What do you mean by a plate on the B2s? Surely that would create a dead spot? |
Oh, I imagine I had something like this in mind, and certainly not locking out the bindings.
If you like pretty pictures, RTC have a discussion of preload on their site, that doesn't actually tell you much about the plate itself.
Sure, try any/all of AC4/Karma/Mantra.
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Kramer, I found the B2s a bit disappointing when I first tried them, let alone compared to a "semi-race" ski.
If you USED to like you bandits then I'd have a shot at the Rossi 9x Oversize. I find it excellent on all pisted snow and perfectly competent off piste (the "oversize" refers to a very wide tip and tail - which provides float in deep snow). To me, for me, it's the best all rounder I have found yet.
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WAS!!! just about to buy b2s, on xscreams for 6years thought would make a good change but now??
so what is the problem with b2s they get good reviews,I ski about 60/40 off piste would like more but rarely go guiding
do they hold up well on piste ??? how good off piste ??? ease of use ???
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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shorty, IMO they're very good skis, easy to use, nice and forgiving, and pretty good in most conditions on and off piste. I find them especially good in crud and slush, also in heavier conditions. In harder and icier conditions they are very skiable, it's only when you compare them back to back with a pair of semi-race skis that the differences become apparent.
I think that it is possible to get a ski that has similar off-piste performance, but that holds an edge slightly better on hardpack and ice (Ise you're the only person I know of who doesn't feel that this is a slight weakness of the last generation B2s! ), but that this will be at a cost of them being less forgiving.
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My first go demoing B2's was on my 5th day of skiing and on a piste so icy brick sized chunks were coming out and floating around. As I had only skied on very poor hire skis the Rossi's were a revelation and with my limited skills I was still able to get down with only the odd fall. I bought a pair in the summer sales and they give me that much confidence that at the moment I really do not wish to try any other ski (gimme a couple more years). If I was buying now I would go for the new B3's, but as I will be (hopefully) increasing my all round skills on and off piste I think that this ski will nurture me through the learning curves (pun intended)
OK - I will now put on a ski suit and knock on random doors... "Hello, I've come to talk to you about the joy of B2's" hehehe
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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ise just thinking about it, I'm quite a hefty bloke, which may explain why I'm having problems holding an edge in icy conditions on my B2s.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Maybe add this year's B3 to the list as well. I haven't tried the Stormrider XL and hence cannot compare but the B3 is pretty stiff (reportedly much more than last year's B2 - felt a little planky at first) but I was surprised by how easily it came up on edge for a comparatively wide ski.
I should add the caveat that the snow conditions in les Arcs/la Plagne, where I demoed them, were pretty good (not too hardpacked) and I did not get the opportunity to push them off piste properly. Worth a look, though.
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Kramer, it's a start but not sufficient. How much of what did you change in your turns to make the E2Vs work?
Variables:
- Technique (and stance) differences
- Tune
- Length and mounting point thereon (note that one is a pseudo-TT hence effectively shorter)
I take it the Salomons were on the Pilot system?
Pointing at just one factor is voodoo guesswork at this stage.
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You know it makes sense.
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comprex, my B2s are 176s, the E2Vs were 180s. Both had been tuned the previous evening.
I don't think that I changed anything significant in my technique, however on the E2Vs I tended to carve turns rather than rely on short radius parralells on the steeper pitches. It was more a case of becoming confident in their ability to hold an edge. The one other thing that I noticed is that the B2s will tend to let you get away with being in the back seat more than the E2Vs would.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Kramer, is it fair to say then that the E2Vs induced you to be further forward and more patient with the turns?
When you feel that the B2s are not quite, was it the tip chattering or the tail letting go?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Kramer, OK 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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comprex, on the straights the tips of the B2s chatter at speed, and they're skittish underfoot, but I can deal with that, mainly by keeping them on edge which sorts it.
On turns on icy sections, it's not the tails letting go, they either hold an edge and carve well, or the whole edge lets go, only catching again when they hit some snow. I'm thinking that it may be to do with the fact that I'm quite heavy, but ski quite aggressively, and so that may be causing problems.
I wouldn't say that the E2Vs induced me to be further forward, I tend to ski with a reasonable posture anyway (even if I say so myself), it's just that they very much gave me the feeling that if I were in the back seat then they would throw me, whereas on the B2s you can get away with it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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stevew, sorry mate.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Kramer, test your hypothesis by hiring a longer B2.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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comprex, do you reckon a longer ski would hold an edge better?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Kramer wrote: |
| ..... if I chose a stiffer ski, which will be better on hard pack and ice, will I lose performance in slush, crud, and powder? |
Not with Metron B5's you won't.
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| ise wrote: |
| ......maybe they just need sharpening? |
kramer, didn't you have them tuned by Decathlon before you went?
Let me know if you want them done properly
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| Kramer wrote: |
| ..... if I chose a stiffer ski, which will be better on hard pack and ice, will I lose performance in slush, crud, and powder? |
Not with Metron B5's you won't. |
I was a bit disappointed with the B5's performance on ice and at speed. Didn't even come close to the same level of confidence I get with my slalom or GS skis, but I guess that in powder snow the B5s will outperform my slalom or GS. I suppose that choosing skis will always have an element of compromise, which will vary depending on what you want from the ski.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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spyderjon, they were tuned by decathlon prior to my holiday to Meribel over Christmas, but they've been serviced a few times since then. The Decathlon servicing was rubbish BTW.
I think that the Metron B5s will have too much side cut for me.
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| rob@rar.org.uk wrote: |
| spyderjon wrote: |
| Kramer wrote: |
| ..... if I chose a stiffer ski, which will be better on hard pack and ice, will I lose performance in slush, crud, and powder? |
Not with Metron B5's you won't. |
I was a bit disappointed with the B5's performance on ice and at speed. Didn't even come close to the same level of confidence I get with my slalom or GS skis, but I guess that in powder snow the B5s will outperform my slalom or GS. |
I didn't feel they came close to slalom skis either. On a practical level, the weight alone would make them unlivable with for me.
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FAQ
In the meantime, flog the B2's on fleabay 
