 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi all
I'm heading out to 3v this Saturday. Like everyone else I expect, I've been an eager disciple of noza on the weather thread. It looks like snow has finally arrived which is great news. Now that I can stop worrying about the possible absence of snow, I'm looking at the forecasts and it looks like there could be a lot of snow arriving on or around Saturday (with usual disclaimers for reliability of forecasts etc). Since we will be driving from GVA to Meribel I'm wondering what the collective views are on which is the best route in case of bad weather (I'm thinking via Chambery). Sub question, what would you do if you got stuck en route due to another snomaggedon? Presumably you just have to lump it but I was wondering if any more frequent visitors to the region have any possible plan b's. Maybe ditch the car and take the train to moutiers?
As always - appreciate the wisdom.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It's low season. Won't be too bad. If it gets busy, just wait it out.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@monkey, I'm not sure what forecast you are looking at. All the ones I can see are showing snow on Thursday albeit with a snowline at around 1400m, and then nothing until Monday.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Celebrate: good snow to be had 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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You should be ok. Your car will have winter tyres? Chains in the boot? Have some water in the car (and food if you have kids) and, as said above, just wait if you have to. Just stick to the obvious routes. Don't try any clever short cuts.
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Val T forecast has 30cm Saturday afternoon / evening.... Snow-forecast.com
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if your flying to GVA rent a car from the swiss side as its a legal requirement for swiss cars to have winter tyres, not the same in france. Make sure you have chains and know how to fit them. Apart from that be sensible and keep to the main road, a lot of the short cuts have police on them turning non local cars back to the mains way, especially between albertville and moutieres.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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What would I do if I got stuck........ I'd likely irritate the poo-poo out of all my fellow passengers with my incessant excitement jumping up and down, followed by my whining about being hungry.
For this reason I always pack lots of food/drink and a warm coat for when I get kicked out. 
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I wouldn't bother going via Chambery, the forecast for Saturday is still a long way from being certain regarding the track of that particular front but the freezing level is going to around 1500m at midday so it will be rain down the valley and potentially all the way to Meribel. I would head on the Motorway to Annecy from Geneva, then head for Ugine and Albertville, then Moutiers then follow the signs for paradise.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Is there such a thing as universal fit snow chains? As you never know what you're going to get at the car hire desk until you arrive, you could end up buying a new set of chains every trip 
We generally take our own car and make sure we have the following:
Chains in the boot, snow tyres fitted, food and drink for 24 hours, warm clothing (ski clothes), tow rope, windscreen scraper, de icer etc.
Of course none of that is much use when you're stuck in a never ending queue of traffic on the motorway, which I guess is the case for the majority of snowmageddon delays
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@imnotapenguin,
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its a legal requirement for swiss cars to have winter tyres
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Hmmm, it's not a legal requirement for personal cars, just a potential responsibility/insurance nightmare if you're in an accident when you ought to have them, don't and the other cars do.
It may be a legal requirement for rentals but I've never heard that. So you are likely (?100%) to have snow tyres from the Swiss side, some companies may even charge you extra for something you'd get anyway - but ...
Having snow tyres is no use if you don't know how to drive in the snow as the idiot in the rental Audi so beautifully demonstrated driving around the Ardent car park on Sunday.
No, putting your foot hard down doesn't help pulling away and once your wheels are spinning, adding more welly won't make things any better...
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Is there such a thing as universal fit snow chains?
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Never seen anything like that although most supermarket ones fit a range of sizes. Any way, Surely the car hire desk will be renting a set that fits the car you rent? (This is not a given, always best to check before you need them).
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You know it makes sense.
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@M535man, no universal chains. Generally folk get them from the car hire company. Sometimes they don't have them, and sometimes they are the wrong size which the prudent renter will discover when she practices fitting them before driving out of the garage.  or buy in a supermarket en route (tricky if it's a Sunday).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@imnotapenguin, yea, we are renting on the swiss side for that reason. But isn't the legal requirement that the cars be winter prepared or something rather than have winter tyres? I always thought it just meant you got chains for free. I'm pretty sure at least one of the cars I've rented on the swiss side previously didn't have winter tyres. Thanks all for the route advice too.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I would take charged power packs for phones/ ipads, make sure I had plenty downloaded on the ipad to entertain me. Shovel, blanket, food, drinks, tissues. voila.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Shovel not hugely practical when you fly in. But a very small kids beach spade can be very useful to clear snow from around the wheels if you're putting chains on in a snowy lay bye.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@pam w, if I was due to fly into a storm - i`d bring a shovel to clear snow from exhaust/ wheels if stuck.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I fly with my avi shovel just stick it in your hold bag.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Is that the autocorrect for "vodka" ?? 
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The difficulty that is moutier arises because so many large ski areas have all of their traffic pass through there with really no alternative, if it gets delayed then every consequence builds very quickly to huge traffic jams. There are local roads that you'd need larger scale local maps to properly navigate and as the others have said they will normally be controlled in bad situations by police\military personnel to preserve their own emergency capacity. I've been on a tour ops coach trying to find a local route in suburbs of moutier that got stuck in a timber yard in a big dip when the driver asked us all to rock back and forth in unison, to our amazement it did get it out when the whole coach erupted in a big cheer! Two more coaches followed us.
I'd also go with your original feelings about the chambrey route as the local road from annecy past the lake toward albertville is joined first by one coming from megeve area and then the combined all has to que round a roundabout to join the chambrey to moutier autoroute, it usually takes ages on a ski Saturday even without problems.
It depends alot on the time you have to go through there but you'd normally expect some delays anyway at peak traffic time (probably 9am till 2pm with no adverse conditions) it maybe low is season but the call of big powder will easily bump that traffic level up for weekend skiers running to the mountains.
I'd add to the preparedness by suggesting you fully fuel the car by the time you reach albertville so that in the event of delay you just don't have to worry about running it if you are stationary, also a couple of strong refuse sacks to kneel\lay on if you have to crack out the chains helps do it without getting soaked.
Hopefully you'll not get any serious problems as it looks like you're on the right week for ski conditions.
I have been through there on a Saturday evening at 10pm with almost nothing on the road at all, so you can sometimes get a clear run.
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First thing is put the chains on before you go up the mountain, it's proper annoying when people arrive with 1. no idea how to drive in the Mountains 2. no idea how to drive in the snow 3. don't put their chains on until realising the 1 and 2 and getting stuck in the middle of the road or skidding in to on coming traffic, a tree, ditch and so on causing massive delays for everyone else.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The weather now looks pretty good for driving on Saturday which hopefully means it will be an easy journey. The plus side to that is it dramatically increases my chances of a half day on the slopes on Saturday afternoon.
I agree with all the snow chains advice etc. In fact, to add to the collective, it pays to have a handful of cable ties with you because once I got a set with a hire car that looked and fitted fine but when driven, the fastening link on one of the chains was faulty so came off after a few yards. Ended up ghetto rigging it with some accessory cord I keep on my rucksack, but a cable tie would have been much easier. In fact, cable ties generally are handy - a friend once snapped a snowboard binding and managed to patch it up with cable ties to get us back down the hill.
Thanks all
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Obviously being properly equipped for mountain driving, that is having snow chains as a minimum and knowing how to put them on, is a minimum. However sometimes you just get overwhelmed by events. You could have had the best equipment in the world and because of the stuck cars, not been able to move. The snowploughs couldn't get through in some areas.
So the best thing is to keep an ear on the radio (107.7 in France) and if there seem to be huge problems stop a way short of the mountains, have some tea, take stock and only if it seems to be clear, push on. I've stopped at Beaune in the past because it was clear that the roads in the Alps were blocked and pushing on and risking not finding a hotel was pointless.
If the weather is bad I'd prefer not to be at the mercy of the SNCF, to answer your question, and spending 24 hours on an unheated train.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@davidof, +1
Much better to avoid the area with the worst congestion than get stuck in the middle of it, no matter how well prepared. The TomTom traffic info service (which can be consulted via their website, I think even if you don't have one of their products) seems very accurate and I'd rely on it to make decisions about route planning. For last year's chaos at the start of NY week I was following the problems via TomTom and it matched exactly reports that were common on social media.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@rob@rar,
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The TomTom traffic info service (which can be consulted via their website, I think even if you don't have one of their products) seems very accurate and I'd rely on it to make decisions about route planning. For last year's chaos at the start of NY week I was following the problems via TomTom and it matched exactly reports that were common on social media.
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When I looked at this the other day it insisted on me logging in. Maybe it is now subscription only or available to people who already subscribe to their Live services.
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@foxtrotzulu, that might be right. I have an account with them so I guess I get logged in automatically.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Mountain Addiction, when do you put chains on? Slush / snow / clear Tarmac (assume not)?
1 I can do (i think)
2 I can do
3 no idea (please help)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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You'll break chains driving on tarmac and it will be very uncomfortable.
Rob's right about Tomtom or some other device - Google maps provides traffic info if you have an Android and data connection.
You may get some way on back roads but they are likely to be even harder to drive on if there is snow as they won't be getting the attention of main roads. It can be useful for a few km's detour. For example from Albertville towards Chambery there are three relatively wide back roads (pretty much A road standard). Passed Moutiers there is a single 'A' road standard back road but it is often controlled by police so have your story ready as to why they should let you use it - you are visiting old aunt Mimi who lives in Combelouvrie or some such.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Wed 6-01-16 20:55; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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| davidof wrote: |
| Rob's right about Tomtom or some other device - Google maps provides traffic info if you have an Android and data connection. |
I think TomTom provide the traffic info to Google.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Levi215, Normally 300m up the hill after you should have! But to be more helpful - if the road is black - no, is it watery slush - no, is the road starting to look white all over - soon or now if there is a layby, a village with street lights, the minute you here a wheel spin - yes - but you are now on a dark narrow road where you can't see very well and are upsetting the locals with snow tyres.
As for the OP the Meteo France forecast for snow level does not drop below 2000m on Saturday - which means you will not need chains but an umbrella to unload - won't do a great deal for the snow though.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Freezing level is one thing, snow-level quite another...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The Meteo france forecast suggest freezing level around 2300m and snow down to 2000m below that it's probably rain 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I find the best indicator of need for chains is any loss of traction. Best to have quiet for this. Switch off the music, tell passengers to pipe down. it can be very subtle as you are already driving in as high a gear as possible with low revs.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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We spent 16 hours in Snowmaggedon last year, driving from Flaine to Ste Foy. Main lesson learnt: have a pee bottle in the car and, for the ladies, a sheewee! Not nice having to squat between open car doors in a major queue of traffic with headlights on in a blizzard.
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