I started skiing 5 years ago in my late twenties. I've never skied before, not even as a child, so I have to learn from scratch. I have roughly 20 days of skiing per year and took some skiing lessons.
In January I am going to spend one week in Les Menuires and this will be my fifth visit of the area. In my previous visits i was skiing only on piste, but this year i intended to ski off piste and to explore the area a little bit more.
The problem is... i have never really seriously skied off piste before. I have skied a little off piste beside piste before, but I've never been in deep powder, or using transceiver, shovel or have any experience being off piste (for example how to check for avalanche danger, how to choose route, how to use equipment...).
So my questions are:
- what is the best way to tackle this problem?
- should i book a off piste guided group tour (i can't afford to book a guide by myself)?
- where to book?
- of what range of prices (hiring a guide, or joining a group) we are talking about?
Thank you for your answers and suggestions.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
You probably do need a lesson with an instructor rather than just going with a guide-a guide will first want to know you have done it before before taking you off the beaten track with a group.
I can recommend Vincent Suchel at Skischool. He's great fun (I think he's the snowboarder and the skier featured in their home page video) http://www.skischool-lesmenuires.com/menuires. His speciality is off piste- I'm not sure what a half day lesson costs, but it will be money well spent. Whatever you do- do NOT just buy the avi gear and think you can just head off on your own. You need to know how to use the kit and ski with someone who knows where they are going at the very least. Skiing off piste alone is risky. Don't feel tempted just to follow tracks where someone else has been.
Having said that, you could head up to the top of the St Martin 2 chair, turn left and ski the "liberty ride" area which is a great spot with a good pitch to get you started (avi controlled and patrolled). There are a couple of other spots marked on the piste map http://en.lesmenuires.com/tourism/!/fiche/liberty-ride-386981. We love the rolling slopes above St Martin which are a great place to practice once you know your way about.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
A couple of things which may be useful:
Don't just get the rescue kit but get training on how to use it (others may depend on you)
Consider what skis you will be using. A wider ski will float better and allow you you to ski gentler slopes. It will also be easier off piste.
If you're not ski fit, do a bit of exercise before you go as it can be more tiring than piste skiing, particulalrly at first when you're learning. You will also be in a group and may need to keep up.
Get decent baskets on your poles.
Do some online research on the general rules of off-piste skiing.
Treat a powder day as a suprise gift rather than an expected outcome. If powder isn't abundant, don't push yourself out of your comfort zone looking for it.
@matejp, what are your expectations? Serious powder days in Europe are reasonably infrequent so don't expect what you see in films.
Guides don't generally instruct and what you need to be starting with is instruction. Instructors are maybe a bit cheaper but you probably want them with you all the time to begin with so the cost clock is ticking.
Les Menuires ESF offer group off piste lessons http://www.esf-lesmenuires.com/les-menuires/adult/freeride - be aware that if your skiing isn't up to the group, they won't take you, also be very aware that it's not powder skiing but off piste so you need a full bag of tools to get you through variable conditions which is what they'll work you on. Looks like you might need 5 pax minimum, but best just to ask them.
Or, if time and budget allow, think about a specific introduction to off piste week with someone like Snoworks, etc. of which there are several companies offering.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
As above deep powder is rare and relatively easy to ski unless it's got high moisture content. It's everything else that may be more of a challenge.
Good point. One could argue that deep powder's challenges lie more in safety and risk management...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Can't be that easy. Myself and many others have made careers out of it here on Hokkaido
After all it is free
After all it is free
Snowheads Off Piste Bash would be perfect ..... instructors and guides for all levels
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Get one on one lessons and be explicit but realistic about your expectations and goals.
A good instructor will get you sorted on piste initially and then transition that learning to unconsolidated snow of whichever flavour.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
+1 to @Perty's recommendation for Vincent Suchel. If you express interest (and the conditions allow) he'll find suitable terrain, teach you all sorts about the snow and how to assess it, as well as working on your technique. He's great fun too, and very passionate about the mountains. I'd go with an open mind and if the conditions aren't right, work on piste (with an instructor) on the techniques that will transition to off piste.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Quote:
A good instructor will get you sorted on piste initially and then transition that learning to unconsolidated snow of whichever flavour
Important point. Unless you can do it right on piste, it won't work off piste except in the easiest conditions (fresh, not too deep, powder). I did an intro to off piste course for a week and we spent at least half the time practising stuff on piste. And I was still rubbish at the end.
The off piste bash sounds like a great suggestion.
Tracked out crud or heavy leg-breaking clag is much more common than powder
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Thank you all for your suggestions.
I will definitely contact mr. Vincent Suchel and try to book him, based on your recommendations.
As for riding off-piste alone I wouldn't dare to do it alone at this stage. I heard to many stories about people (most experienced guys) getting caught that i have a little respect towards snowy mother nature.
Regarding my skiing ability. I don't have problems with any type of piste in 3 Valleys. I practically skied them all in the past few years. Last year (in preparation for this year) I've done Combe De Rosael when there were big moguls in limited visibility due to the fog (skied very slowly and carefully), Combe de Caron and Glacier piste on Pecelet Glacier at the end of the day. I believe that my technique wasn't the best, but i survived ...Also last year i tried to ski beside the pistes as much as possible but this is not the same as going far away from pistes.
On blue runs i try to carve every turn, meanwhile on red pistes this depends on traffic, my stamina and snow quality ...
Regarding my physical fitness i regularly attend (at least 3 times a week) Cross-Fit training, so I think I am prepared enough. I know that skiing requires different muscle groups than Cross-Fit, but I've done many squats this year .
My expectations are:
Theory
- to learn how to choose line. To observe terrain and recognize where is the chance for a weak bond between snow and terrain (type of terrains)
- to learn how to check snow quality before i hit the slope
- to learn how to evaluate terrain steepness
- how to use a transceiver in case of accident
- which gear are necessary to have in my backpack (shovel, ropes,...?)
Practice
- What technique to use in different type of snow.
- How to do jump turns
- Body position on skis for riding a crud, ice, powder
- To correct bad habits collected during the years of self ski learning (as I said before I took some lessons at the beginning, but i doubt they were enough).
- I would like to know if my knowledge of skiing is enough to hit off piste.
As you see... i like to complicate things and i want to learn as much as possible...
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
And rent/buy some fat skis.
The appropriate equipment makes it all a great deal easier.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Powder in the European Alps is a bit rubbish.
Usually heavy / wet / crusty (close to the Med sea), often tracked-out in minutes, and rarely deep.
Go to northern Japan or west-midwest US, where the snow is lighter and deeper. Easier to ski.
Buy / rent some fat skis. And then spend 2 weeks with an instructor-guide.
Job done.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
Regarding my skiing ability. I don't have problems with any type of piste in 3 Valleys.
It's perfectly possible to ski pisted runs with the kind of basic technique errors which will rapidly catch you out on trickier snow. I know from first hand experience.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Just get yourself on an Off Piste or Backcountry course with www.snoworks.co.uk. They supply all the kit (and skis if you want), give tuition and guiding. You can choose between half day (off Piste) or Fulll day (Backcountry) and they are available across a number of resorts in Europe. Courses run Mon - Friday.
You can go on your own and they will sort out a room share if you want to keep the cost down.
A few snowheads have been on many of their courses including me. IMO you won't find better tuition elsewhere.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Whitegold wrote:
Powder in the European Alps is a bit rubbish.
Usually heavy / wet / crusty (close to the Med sea), often tracked-out in minutes, and rarely deep.
Go to northern Japan or west-midwest US, where the snow is lighter and deeper. Easier to ski.
Buy / rent some fat skis. And then spend 2 weeks with an instructor-guide.
Job done.
Well that's one belief i guess, i find US new snow to be subject to a feeding frenzy and tracked out within the hour wheras the sheer acreage in the alps gives untracked terrain for days after a snowfall, unless you are in an Offpiste mecca like chamonix.
Is it as light as Colorado? no, but i have found it way better than California and quite acceptable..
Japan is sounding like somewhere i should check out soon.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Some of that sounds like good advice.
Moisture content is irrelevant for learning and most other things: sure, I like cold smoke, but even Scottish "powder" is fun, and if you're into willy waving then what do you think makes that AK powder stick to those cliffs?
Deep powder is rare for resort skiers: even if you're riding untracked it's pisted by skiers all season, so you can often feel the base. This is a good thing: it's easier to ride powder on a base, to start with. I would ride what you find, maybe take some instruction, see how that works.
Most tourist resorts do have feeding frenzies, although away from there you may be surprised what you find if you look. "Family" places are often great - avoiding macho places helps.
If you're keen to get bottomless snow then my advice (and I have some commercial interest) is to go Cat Skiing. You can ride bottomless all day with a couple of guides to help you adjust your technique. Beginners are wasted on helicopters, but cats move slower and cost way less.
I've seen a lot of skiers and boarders who probably think themselves competent at resorts have a great deal of trouble in deep powder. They do daft things like sitting down, or stopping on the flats, or getting lost (because they don't know how to follow a line), or not standing on their skis properly. You can pick those things up or take instruction, or both.
All valid points of view above but I've enjoyed more true frigid cold smoke snorkel days in the rubbish Alps than anywhere else, right time right place I guess.
True, if you have limited time and want guaranteed (well almost) powder go Hokkaido as it is pretty consistent and the pitches are short and not in the least bit intimidating so much more suited to a powder pup, not sure about tuition but I'm sure someone will know.
America can puke but it does get whacked...super quick, great tuition though, the best I've had and I've had some.
In the Alps I would recommend a week long avi course, get used to life beyond the markers, get safe, chances are you wont be in powder and if you are... you will be safe when you find the float.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
You're in a good place anyway. I got some powder days off-piste up in Val Thorens the same time last year when it was chucking it down with rain everywhere else.
@matejp, some resorts have un-pisted runs.I think that's the same as Perty is saying. Those are excellent to start with. You can try them out safe in the knowledge that you are relatively safe. I did a trail in St Anton and a run in Val d'Isere. With both, I made sure there were people behind me and asked a couple of guys if they would hang around for a bit to check on me!! I often find skiers are quite nice like that.
And if that whets your appetite get lessons. I find off piste quite different. It's more or less the same but more unforgiving.
And powder ... I've only skied powder twice and it wasn't the wonderful stuff of dreams. I sunk to my waist the first time and it wasn't deep enough for me to get going. The second time was okay but a little stressful and repetitive. I prefer the changeable condition of a "normal" off-piste day.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@henzerani, struggling with this.
Un-pisted runs. IME these are often rather isolated and have no short cuts out. If you aren't having fun, you could get into real trouble. Skiers are nice like that but patience runs shorter if you clearly are being an idiot.
Powder not deep enough? Waist deep is marvellous. Were you on ice skates? I don't understand not deep enough to get going. Unless you are in fact a submersible.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Think he meant not steep enough.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@essex, ha ha you might be right.
Still feel it's a workman-tools moment
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
As I said before. Right now I don't intend to ski off-piste alone. It will be either with an instructor (later with a guide) either with my friends. But as i mentioned before, I need some guidance about basic stuff.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
