 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi SnowHeads!
I am new to SH and new to the world of skiing (can't wait to get started!!!).
I am in the process of planning a trip to the Arlberg area in Austria for the first week of January 2016. I will be traveling with 3 friends (so 4 of us in total), all of us are in our late 20's and are complete beginners.
From what I have read, it looks like Lech Zurs is the best place for beginners (we are all athletic so we are hoping to get skiing quite quickly and to get a lot of practice / mileage in, but are definitely not looking for advanced skiing on this trip). We have the following concerns, so some first-hand advice would be GREATLY appreciated:
- Will there be enough good quality snow in the first week of January for us to maximize our experience?
- Is there enough apres-ski in Lech to keep us entertained (we aren't looking to get absolutely hammered every night, but do want to have a few drinks after hitting the slopes)?
- How easy is it to travel between Lech and St Anton (both during the day (for skiing) and at night (for apres-ski))?
- We are looking to rent an apartment / chalet for a week, is Lech really that much more than St Anton (food, drinks, equipment hire etc. - one of the reasons we are going to Austria instead of France to to get better value for money)?
- Instead of staying in Lech, would you suggest staying in St Anton and skiing in Lech Zurs each day?
Thanks so much for any advice you can give!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@matfrazerz, if you are switching your interest away from France due to budget then The Arlberg is not where you should be looking. It is expensive compared to nearly every other ski area in Austria, only Ischgl can rival it I would suggest. Also for beginners The Arlberg is also not one of the best areas to learn. There are many places in Austria with very good après and are very good for beginners; I suggest you have a look at the 'Ski Welt' and 'Ski Amade' and the rest of the Salzburgerland for starters. Places such as Soll, Niederau and Radstadt/Altenmarkt would be ideal.
And January should be fine for all of Austria - except in exceptionally poor years.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'd say lech is pretty tame and zurs great fun. but if your learning as previous poster said I'd give it a miss. Ischgl is better, st johann (IT) and kitzbuhel cheaper and Mayrhofen probably ticks most boxes
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@AthersT - Thanks for the advice and the suggestions, I will definitely check them out! The change to Austria is not so much about budget, but more about getting value (we were originally looking at Val d'Isere, but were told by many people that the prices are astronomical there).
@mugen - Thanks for the insight! We have looked at Kitzbuhel extensively, but are concerned about snow certainty due to its low altitude (seems to be a common thread on the websites I have looked at). The last thing we want is for our first ski trip to be derailed by a lack of snow. Not sure if this is a real issue or not...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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prices in france are rip off when compared to Austria.
bear in mind because Austria is further away from Atlantic the freezing level is lower than in France.
Ischgl spend a fortune on fake snow if not there on time. But to save money don't stay in Ischgl stay in galtur.. kappl also an option but for me it's not as nice as galtur. there are free buses to ischgl from galtur.
have a look at ischgl.com/en and click on booking for prices. also for Mayrhofen area zillertal.at this is the larger area so more scope.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@matfrazerz, if it's not about actual cost and about value for money, then I agree Ischgl is up there, though I have stayed in Ischgl town at a reasonable cost S/C. As @mugen, says Austria has a lower freezing level and is further east with a more continental rather than maritime climate. Kitzbuhel is a good shout, also consider Saalbach-Hinterglemm. Excellent VFM with great après ski plus the addition of Fieberbrunn to the area now. Ischgl will be open last week of November so I wouldn't worry about Jan snow.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 18-05-15 11:43; edited 1 time in total
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@matfrazerz, Zurs has zero nightlife. Lech is pretty poor too. I'd definitely stay in St Anton over the others if you want to experience any après ski
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If you want nightlife, you need ot be in St Anton rather than Lech.
If you don't want to spend a fortune, you need to be in Anton rather than Lech.
If you want easy quiet pistes, you want to be in Lech rather than Anton.
If you want lots of good veried beginner skiing at a reasonable price with plenty of fun apres and some nightlife, you should look at Saalbach.
Snow and altitude is not a problem in any of the resorts mentioned.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Compared to France the quality of tbe sccomodations in Austria is far superior.
You can rent a 4 person apartement in Lech for a very reasonable price.
Lech & Zurs is upmarket. Apres ski is sophisticated & very Germanic.
Snow is normaally very goid in January but bear in mind most of the area is above the tree lune so white outs are common .
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prices in france are rip off when compared to Austria
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Compared to France the quality of tbe sccomodations in Austria is far superior.
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Sweeping generalisations, much.... Some French accommodation is better than some Austrian accommodation and some French prices better than Austrian (especially Arlberg) ones. In comparable resorts Austrian prices for beers and food on the mountain are generally better than French ones but other costs including equipment hire and lift passes are about the same.
If you are all young and keen and want to make as much progress as possible in the week, you could look at the all-inclusive holidays at UCPA centres in a bunch of the best French ski resorts (including Val d'Isere, if that's where you want to go). Prices for next winter are not out yet but I bet you would struggle to better their deals for full board, lessons and equipment hire (usually around £700). If you want to make fast progress go for all day lessons. The Centres have a good-value bar, too, and plenty of lively company. See the Action Outdoor website. There are plenty of reports on UCPA holidays on snowheads, generally very enthusiastic. Fantastic value for money.
If you go to a really big name resort like Val d'Isere or the Arlberg you are going to be paying for a whole lot of advanced skiing and a big lift network, but only able to dip your toes into a small fraction of it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Oh and welcome to Snowheads @matfrazerz, as you have/will find - some prefer France and some prefer Austria and some like both.
Austria offers - high accommodation standards, with good value for money food and drink on or off the mountain and unparalleled après ski options that have to experienced. It also offers good quality skiing for all abilities mainly based around individual towns and villages. More and more are becoming linked together year after year. Less KM of pistes in some cases, but not all.
France offers - good accommodation standards, specialising in self catering apartments and chalets. Food and drink costs are substantially higher on or off the mountain, hence the flourishing self catering and chalet accommodation. Apres ski on an Austrian scale is a non-entity in most resorts, but purpose built lift linked ski resorts offering high quality on and off piste skiing are numerous.
There are exceptions for both countries, for example there are some very high quality hotels available in France and also S/C and Chalets in Austria also The Arlberg is very expensive whilst the places such as Serre Chevalier and Les Menuires offer reasonable prices across the board, but in general the above is indicative.
On a resort by resort basis they both have brilliant places to visit, but for your requirements Saalbach is probs top of the list.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thank you everyone for the excellent advice!! I really appreciate the insight, it has been so helpful!
I have done some more research based on these posts and it looks like we will be going to Saalbach in January 2016 - seems to hit all of the marks (higher than Kitzbuhel, easier than St Anton, cheaper than Lech and a little milder apres ski than Ischgl). The only possible negative I have been able to find is that the snow can be a bit dodgy (but I'm hoping early Jan is close enough to mid winter to be okay). In any event, the snow making facilities seem to be extensive.
Will definitely be looking at the bigger and higher resorts (and a taste of France) for future trips once we have a bit more experience and have developed our snow legs.
Thank you for the warm welcome to Snowheads!
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@matfrazerz, Saalbach as a first ski holiday is pretty epic. BTW higher does not necessarily mean better and by the time you get to Saalbach in early Jan, snow will probably have been lying at resort level for 2-4 weeks.
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You know it makes sense.
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the snow can be a bit dodgy
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true of just about anywhere, anytime.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks again, everyone!
We are busy putting the trip together - a few days including New Year's Eve in Vienna, a week (or maybe a little more) in an apartment in Saalbach and then a few days in Switzerland (won't be skiing, unfortunately) afterwards to round it off.
Really appreciate the help!
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Poster: A snowHead
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@matfrazerz, sounds awesome, guess your flying from South Africa, don't forget that Munich is more convenient than Vienna for access to Saalbach. I'm guessing you are somewhat limited with flights and Munich has direct flights to SA and is about 2 hours by road closer to Saalbach.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Awesome! Thanks, AthersT. Looks like we will be spending NYE in Munich!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Samerberg Sue, just highlighting options  yes traffic can be bad from Munich but same can be said for Vienna and trains are available from both. I haven't spent it at either but Munich appeals to me more than Vienna for NYE. Plus that event sounds awesome! A good tip would be try to avoid driving on transfer Saturdays between 9 and 3.
As far as the Vienna flights go, I don't believe the Vienna ones are direct and go via Amsterdam making the journey around 20hrs as opposed to 10hrs direct! Just found flights with South African Airways - departing 29/12/2015 from Jo'burg to Munich (10hrs 20m) and return on 12/01/2016 (10hrs 40m) for £520. Indirect with Etihad via Abu Dhabi for £364! but 21hrs outbound and 33hrs rtn! lol
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@AthersT, I've had both direct and idirect flights to and from South Africa, you pays yer money and takes your choice! Direct flights do go in and out of Vienna, but as South African Airways have now moved their main European hub to Munich it makes easier to find flights to and from there.
The sheer volume of traffic at any time of the year or week along the stretch from north of Munich to Salzburg is what causes the delays. It only takes one accident or breakdown and the whole thing snarls up. Take today for example, a mid-week day outside of any of the major holiday periods, you would have had over three hours added to the journey time because the motorway was jammed due to an accident involving a lorry somewhere between the Irschenberg and the Bad Aibling exit. They had to close the motorway in order to get things cleared up, this resulted in massive jams on all the alternative routes. These types of events are not uncommon either. Last Wednesday evening, instead of having my easy 1 hour 5 minutes commute home, I was stuck in traffic for well over 2 hours crawling along the A8 at somewhere between 30 and 60 kms for a lot of the time. Again the misfortune of some bad accidents at the key points in the traffic system around Munich plus necessary roadworks, and the whole of the south and south-east section of the Munich traffic system was buggered up. An added problem in these slow-moving days as well is the follow-on accidents as people either try to make up lost time or simply drive into each other due to loss of concentration. All adds to the mix, and we are ignoring bad weather (snow or icy roads), crazy Dutch and Swiss drivers, as well as the increased volume on key holiday weekends in the ski season, such as New Year week. As I have to cross Munich (east to west) to get to work as well as tackle the infamous Irschenberg, I plan my Home Office days very carefully in the holiday seasons to avoid any possible slow journeys!
I use the Tomtom Live traffic reporting maps to help me plan, I monitor them in the background while at work and have learnt the patterns of build up.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Had a look at the train schedules and looks like there are frequent trains to Zell am See from both Munich and Vienna. Sounds like this is the preferable way to travel in light of the unpredictable traffic issues (we have no desire to rent a car - too much additional admin, we would rather sit back and watch the world go by as we travel).
I think that the deciding factor regarding flying into Munich or Vienna will be which flights are quicker and are at better times. I must say though, that parallel slalom event in Munich sounds awesome!
The biggest problem we now face is how to wait out the next 7 months!
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@matfrazerz, let us know which one you choose and maybe we can help you get the cheapest deals on train tickets! A friend got from Radstadt to Munich airport with just 2 changes of train (at Salzburg and then onto the S-Bahn at Munich Ost) for 24 (?) Euro this past March. There are some good deals to be found but it isn't easy if you don't know where to look and how to compare ÖBB and DBB prices!  The schedule and prices for next winter will appear somewhere around December 13th (usually the nearest Saturday/Sunday to that date).
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Thanks, Samerberg Sue! Will do.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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And to get the best out of your week, factor in some lessons. Lots of lessons (but remember quality is always preferable to quantity!)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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If you are coming from SA I presume you've already looked at Beachcomber/Snocomber or whatever they're called these days? I used to do ski hire for them in St. Johann I.T. and all there guests seemed to enjoy the beginner/intermediate friendly skiing and nightlife, they did a few other Austrisn resorts too.
Mind you, a bunch of fellow countrymen/women might not be your idea of a good holiday.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@matfrazerz, Let me know if you need any help - we're based in Saalbach and can advise on most aspects. Our contact details are below.
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@matfrazerz, hi, a fellow South African here... I skied lech, zurs, St Anton, St Christoph in January.... The arlberg is very expensive compared to other ski areas in Austria, but the night life is second to none in St Anton. My favourite is Ellmau in the Ski welt region... Much cheaper And fantastic for beginners. Wide gentle runs. If you are a complete beginner you will still be able to survive in St Anton, but your skiing experience will be extremely limited, and considering the costs involved, you want to get as much as possible out of your skiing. Hence i would recommend Ellmau or even Saalbach. Beginnng of january might be touch and go for snow in Ellmau, but generally it is okay. End of jan is a safer bet. Happy carving.
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You know it makes sense.
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@matfrazerz, lots of great advice from snowHeads here. My contribution is that early January is low season, once New Year week passed and most people back at work. Personally I'd wait to check where snow is good. Then book best deal no more than a week before arrival on the mountain. There's always lots of capacity and some of the best value of the season.
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FAQ
