Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Richard_Sideways, Standard 3mm paracord has a breaking strain of nearly 200kg. Quite enough to dangle some of the lighter Septics from a chairlift.
I know this is far from being the first backpack incident on a chairlift, but luckily not the most fatal, so I wonder how long it will be before they get banned or people are forced to remove them on chairlifts.
I am more interested in forced removal in cable cars and bubbles for my personal comfort
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
The issue is more to do with poor chair lift design, with all sorts of places to get hooked up on. It is not just backpacks, anything with a loop or strap is a potential issue.
Backpacks cannot be banned, otherwise the ski patrol could never take a chair lift, so enforced removal which actually causes more of a risk in terms of flapping straps, is most likely.
Andorra (Soldeu) have a ban on the use of back packs on lifts, however removal is rarely enforced, probably due to needing one person dedicated to telling people in the queue to remove them so they can do it well before they reach the front.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@PowderAdict,
You could also say this :-
"The issue is more to do with poor backpack design, with all sorts of dangly bits to get hooked up with. It is not just backpacks, anything with a loop or strap is a potential issue."
I remember seeing in one resort the ski patrol people had slim backpacks with a smooth, possibly hard, back face that had no spare straps or anything hanging and I assumed they were designed specifically so that they could get on a and off chair lifts with no fuss. Cannot remember where it was though
I have tried one of those "easy release" backpacks, admittedly only the base model from Decathlon, which when you release it leaves even more, longer, dangling straps than a normal one, although it is released from across your chest so should avoid the strangling problem but might leave you hanging by the arm. Hopefully though you should be able to rip it off before the chair hits you on your, expensively helmetted, head though
After all it is free
After all it is free
@PowderAdict, flapping straps may get caught, but if you're only holding it then it's easy to let go.
Since that lad from Torquay died a few years back I always take my bag off on lifts.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
PowderAdict wrote:
The issue is more to do with poor chair lift design, with all sorts of places to get hooked up on. It is not just backpacks, anything with a loop or strap is a potential issue.
Backpacks cannot be banned, otherwise the ski patrol could never take a chair lift, so enforced removal which actually causes more of a risk in terms of flapping straps, is most likely.
Well, you could ban them. You'd just say the ban doesn't apply to the ski patrol. What's a bigger problem is that , unlike most piste skiers, people skiing off-piste DO actually need them.
Looking back, I couldn't remember many people wearing back packs in the 70's, 80's or 90's and a quick search of Google images suggests that's accurate. I'm sure a few did, but they were certainly far less common. My guess is that the increase in backpack wearing is partly down to more off-piste skiing (and heightened awareness of suitable off-piste kit), but also just a general fashion trend. Backpacks also seem to be particularly popular among Brits, and my guess is that this is because we tend to be less mountain-savvy and tend to overcompensate and take more than we need to.
A few 'surveys' I conducted last year in lift queues suggest that about 10% of skiers wear backpacks.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
My nephew was left dangling by the straps of his salopettes. He suffered nothing worse than a "savage wedgie" and the undisguised mirth of his cousin and the liftie, who took his time winding the chair back. He was fortunate.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
A backpack without any dangling straps is the answer, just cut off any loose buckles or straps that aren't needed. Mine is as smooth on the back as my jacket, and I keep the shoulder and waist straps done up on the lift, it is also very low profile so doesn't affect my comfort on the lift.
The only times I've seen issues getting caught up was someone taking their bag off and putting it on their lap, the loose buckle dropped through a gap in the chair (why on earth chairs can't be designed that either have very large holes or no holes at all I don't know) and turned 90 degrees. When standing up the bag was then caught, and pulled them off balance - could easily have been worse but wouldn't have happened if they just kept the bag on their back and done up.
The thing I don't like is seeing people getting on lifts with buckles, straps and zip pulls hanging off the back of their pack. Badly designed packs and indeed chairs make this much more likely.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I used to wear a backpack in the 80's but it was a very basic affair just a couple of straps for my shoulders and one to close the bag, nothing else. It was vital though as it held my lunch of 1Kg of bread and 400gms of Swiss chocolate. Those were the days
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
We have procedures in place for rescuing fallen engineers in harnessess, I'm not sure why there shouldn't be such a thing for lifts.
Unfolding a mat and sending a ladder up to an unstable header isn't something I'd consider "safe", and even then there seemed no other plan in place other than to hoist the skier up onto the chair. If he was a big lad then the guy above would have been knackered and the outcome may have been a lot different.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@skitow, If a chair lift chair is just a solid seat and solid back, with a decent gap between the two to let snow and wind escape, it would be near impossible to get anything caught.
The problems come with slatted seats/backs, a narrow gap between seat and back that allows a backpack or pole strap buckle to slide through and then trap themselves, and finally a wide range of metal hooks and loops for various unknown functions.
A properly designed and done up backpack doesn't have any flapping straps to get caught, whereas a carried one as at least 2 and probably 4. Many appear to struggle to get themselves off a chair lift,without adding further complications.
The other factor is that a minor incident that previously would have perhaps been seen by 10-20 people, is now broadcast worldwide.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
PowderAdict wrote:
The other factor is that a minor incident that previously would have perhaps been seen by 10-20 people, is now broadcast worldwide.
A young lad died last year from the same sort of incident.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Richard_Sideways wrote:
Thats an impressively strong length of paracord.
Random, partly inclomplete memory from my RAF survival instructor days, is that real parachute risers had an ultimate load capacity of (here's the memory thing) either 300 or 600 pounds. Either will do!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
Standard 3mm paracord has a breaking strain of nearly 200kg
Do you mean force and 2kN?
Quote:
The issue is more to do with poor backpack design, with all sorts of dangly bits to get hooked up with.
Backbacks are designed largely for different purposes - mainly to do with carrying loads while walking or climbing. There is a lot to be said for different packs for different purposes a pack desingned to be taken rock climbing is very different from one designed for a multi day walk in the mountains.
@foxtrotzulu, I agree backpack wearing on piste is a very British thing. You can spot British skiers a mile away, helmet, rucksack, and probably a avalanche tranceiver on a blue piste 20m from a bar
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I see a "Dragons Den" opportunity. A backpack fitted with the quick-release mechanism from a parachute (or at least the parachutes used in the action films I've been watching). In the event that the chairlift takes your backpack, just punch the button and you're free. would give @under a new name, something to aim for too!
You can spot British skiers a mile away, helmet, rucksack, and probably a avalanche tranceiver on a blue piste 20m from a bar
You must be very lucky to always ski where the weather never changes, where your partners & kids always carry their own stuff and you never fancy a quick drink or snack without paying through the nose for it; or do you just wear a fartbag and shove everything down inside it ?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Where do you put your wallet/phone/keys/tissues/sunblock if not in a backpack?
@queen bodecia, Keys always go in a hip pocket so if it's cold and icy I have a sure fire way of warming myself up
Seriusly, when my kids were younger a backpack was very useful for all the things you may need and would involve either great expense or a trip off the mountain to get. Now they are older I don't tend to use one and just use my pockets.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
Keys always go in a hip pocket so if it's cold and icy I have a sure fire way of warming myself up
Seriously, when my kids were younger a backpack was very useful for all the things you may need and would involve either great expense or a trip off the mountain to get. Now they are older I don't tend to use one and just use my pockets.
I always used my pockets...and now with a young child I have invested in a backpack that I'm doomed to carry around for the next few years
After all it is free
After all it is free
I can't fit all that in my pockets and it would be bloody uncomfortable even if I could.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@dsoutar, I undo the zips and ventilation on my jacket and midlayer or stuff my hat in my pocket to cool off and adjust accordingly. And yes the weather rarely changes significantly during the day and the forecasts are actually very accurate. I have breakfast with a few cups of tea before I set off, lunch at lunch time and dinner at dinner time. I never snack and very rarely find the need to drink during the day apart from perhaps a tea break or two, which is mainly a social thing.
If partners or kids or anyone else feels the urge to have someting extra during the day then they should carry it. Strangely, they don't have the need.
My pockets usually contain: keys wallet, glasses, lift pass, hankerchief and quite often a mobile phone.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I should mention that I put each item in a separate pocket so I don't accidently drop my wallet while blowing my nose on a chairlift.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Dangerous things chairlifts.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Strax wrote:
I see a "Dragons Den" opportunity. A backpack fitted with the quick-release mechanism from a parachute (or at least the parachutes used in the action films I've been watching). In the event that the chairlift takes your backpack, just punch the button and you're free. would give @under a new name, something to aim for too!
Interesting idea. Of course, the question is whether in the event of being caught up by a backpack you are better off remaining with the pack or separating from it. My guess is that you are probably better being properly caught up than releasing. Within a very few seconds a passenger would be at normal chairlift height of, say, 25 foot. Releasing from even half that height is likely to cause serious injury at the very least.
Maybe a better idea for those who wish to wear backbacks is that each one is fitted with a special loop on the back. The skiers straps himself firmly into the backpack and is then scooped up by the next hook. That way, many more backpack-wearing skiers could be transported up the mountain. Something a bit like this:
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Always wear an avi bag and have worn rucksacks for many years, never take them off for chairs. BUT one of the major designs criteria when I select is no loose straps or dangles. It is these that are dangerous and doesn't matter if they are on rucksack, jacket, salopettes
Its the same when Diving, its critical when Wreck diving that nothing hangs and can snag.
Some folks skiing are just a mass of trailing stuff, just asking for issues
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@foxtrotzulu, was it not the the loading of bananas onto boats that prompted the design of chirlifts in the first place?
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I used a bumbag until a few yrs ago. Now have a small rucksack which means I can carry an extra layer + bits in case the weather turns. Also goggles as I usually wear shades. And on the odd time I fall, I'm more likely to land on my side than back. And it stops my pockets from getting out of shape
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@martinm, why would you worry about out of shape pockets when you used to wear a bumbag?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I carry a few litres of water and will still be dehydrated at the end of the day. Given my already generous proportions I'd rather have that on my back than shoved into pockets.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
under a new name wrote:
@martinm, why would you worry about out of shape pockets when you used to wear a bumbag?
Good point - I mean stretched fabric rather than temporarily misshapen!
I carry a few litres of water and will still be dehydrated at the end of the day. Given my already generous proportions I'd rather have that on my back than shoved into pockets.
I've got into the habit of carrying a bottle too having got dehydrated.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
The one time I was "forced" to remove my bag before getting on a chair lift, one of the straps (that would otherwise be well out of way) got caught in the chair and I had to ski under the chair all the way to the bottom in case it fell off and I lost it! I have seen many bags drop off chairs when people have taken them off, done a shuffle and whoops bag slips off..... I personally prefer to keep my bag on my back on the chair lift
I really don't see the need for 90% of skiers/boarders to use any kind of backpack. If you dress appropriately, no need to carry extra layers etc. The only people who NEED a backpack are those who intend to go off piste and need avi gear. Anything else is just vanity. I think a lot of people wear them because they think it makes them look 'cool'. It doesn't, they just look like posers. It seems to have become a 'fashion' item.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Old Man Of Lech, there's no way my backpack makes me look cool and I'd far rather ski without it.
After all it is free
After all it is free
We always ski with slimline backpacks, they carry avi kit, and a pack lunch if needed. They are no problem whatsoever on chairlifts, unless the staff get shirty and make us take them off - worn properly there are no loose straps, but taken off, and swung round to the front there are dangling straps and buckles - JanetS did get caught up on a chair in Cervinia like this. So in my opinion taking them off is more dangerous.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
queen bodecia wrote:
Where do you put your wallet/phone/keys/tissues/sunblock if not in a backpack?
My Burton pants have 8 pockets. The AK jacket has 7 although I may have not found them all yet. So plenty of room. Snow gear is all built for fatties, so putting some stuff in there doesn't make much difference to the aerodynamics.
Wallet: try https://www.trove.cc/ Right hand top pants pocket. Radio mostly goes in the one below that.
Phone: media pocket in jacket. Aeroplane mode if using a transceiver.
Keys: there's one dedicated hook in the pants left top pocket, one in the jacket left hand pocket. Choices, choices
Tissues: this is North America, they're provided for you, no need to carry.
Sunblock: top right pocket.
Backpack: Most people chop the straps they don't need, as they're always over-supplied as different people do different things with them.
Where I have had a backpack on at a resort they generally ask you to take them off for the chair lifts, even if you're skinny and the pack is skinny. I assume that's because it's too hard for them to decide which backpacks are safe and which aren't.
When I was in Chatel last year they made you take off backpacks and put them on your lap when going up on the lifts, made sense to me as it stopped people being half on/off the chair and a hinderance to the safety bar coming down unobstructed (i.e bashing the person on the head!).
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