 Poster: A snowHead
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Can't decide where to ski this winter. I know, first world problems... We've done St Anton for the last few years & loved it. I have a good few years' skiing under my belt & my partner is just getting to the level where he can manage most things without freaking out. We like exploring & so are looking for somewhere with plenty of runs to explore without going off piste. We've narrowed it down to Verbier or the Three Valleys at the moment. We've skied in France loads & have only skied in Switzerland by nipping over the border from Cervinia, so Switzerland is a bit of an unknown for us. Has anyone skied both of these areas - any pros or cons for either?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@sazza42,
I have skied both, personally I prefer the Verbier area for scenic beauty and quieter slopes generally.
However although they are both large ski areas, if you are predominantly a piste skier who likes to travel you may prefer 3V.
The linking is far more efficient. Once you get beyond the Verbier environs the lift system in Switzerland is considerably more antiquated and if you want to see the whole area there is a fair amount of travelling on slow lifts. The actual piste skiing close to Verbier does get very busy.
Both area are popular with Brit skiers so you won't necessarily feel abroad particularly if staying in Verbier or Meribel.
My own feeling is that the 3v are pretty dull scenically and the Belleville valley pretty ugly though I know these feelings are not shared by all. It certainly has a fabulous quantity of varied piste skiing and is well worth a visit.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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T Bar puts it very right imo, especially on the -poorish- scenery of the Belleville valley. It is just not very beautiful
In general 3V lacks atmosphere. Also around Meribel and Courchevel imo (not to mention Val Thorens and Les Menuires)
3V also has a strong feel of mass-tourism to me.
Verbier is -both piste and off piste- rather similar to St.Anton. But indeed you'll have to like off-piste to like Verbier (and St.Anton..?.)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
| 3V also has a strong feel of mass-tourism to me |
Strange that...in the world's biggest ski area 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Langerzug wrote: |
In general 3V lacks atmosphere. |
I think you've hit the nail on the head there. Yes, there are miles and miles of piste, and there is plenty of variety and travel to keep you amused for a week and more .. but it does somehow lack atmosphere.
Definitely worth a visit though.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
But the views from the top of La Masse, the top of Grand Fond lift, the top of Col chair, Col De La Chambre and the Cime de Caron (to name but 5) are, IMHO, both breathtaking and world class.
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Sounds like most of these view points allow you to look out of the Belleville valley which I agree must be a blessed relief. 
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Verbier for a boyz trip
I haven't been there for a long time but I loved it.
3 valleys is just so vast ... probably too big to get the most out of in just a week or two.
Aren't we spoilt?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I have skied both.
We have stayed in Verbier proper, La Tzoumaz and Les Collons. Verbier and the connected resort make up the "4" Valleys, if you're not into off piste, is not as huge as it claims to be, or as well and easily linked. The Tortin itinerary that links Verbier and Siviez is a fairly horrendous steep mogul field. Not much fun for intermediates. Then links further afield involve long drag lifts. My own experience is that this means the pistes above Verbier itself are crowded. The area above La Tzoumaz and is nice though. Skiing in Bruson is much quieter, though I've not been since the lift link has been improved. On mountain grub rather disappointing. Character? Hmmm....Verbier very full of the Chelsea set... The town itself is attractive, with some very attractive swanky apartment buildings and chalets.
3 Valleys wins in my opinion. I know people can be a little sneery about it catering for the masses, but it is truly excellent. Lacks character? Not sure I agree at all! It does depend where you stay. We love St Martin de Belleville and the surrounding little villages. We aren't into banging nightlife. If you are, then best look at Meribel, possibly Courchevel 1850 and VT. Les Menuires and VT admittedly are not big on cuteness, but are improving. Mountain scenery? Fab. There's something for everyone and for every type of weather. There's an excellent lift system, so travelling about is a seamless exercise these days. For piste based cruisers it wins.
BTW, I have also been to St Anton, and definitely would rate the 3V heaps better for on piste skiing.
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Verbier is a very special place and to get the most of it you need some skills (to enjoy the vast off-piste opportunities it offers) or a sense of adventure to cross all the valleys and explore all the pistes - which are more varied and less crowded on a 4 valleys side. Tortin can be crossed in gondola if you can't/don't want to ski moguls. Quite a few drag lifts on the other side but only a few are mandatory and only if you want to go all the way to the opposite end of the ski area. For food you need to know where to go, it varies from average to amazing even for a similar price. Bruson side offers some nice and quite piste skiing and with new lift it's much better accessible from Verbier than before when you needed a bus.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thanks so much for all the replies. Not sure if it has made the choice easier or harder! I'm shocked by the comments about the Belleville valley - how can anything covered in snow be ugly??!!
I'm quite fond of moguls & drag lifts, so I'm veering towards choosing Verbier at the moment.... decisions, decisions....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Perty, Tortin is lovely. A very fine bumps run.
"It's not that you can't ski bumps, it's that you can't ski and the bumps are tellng you"
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@sazza42, If you've skied St Anton then Verbier.....my second favourite ski area, closely followed by Chamonix, followed by Espace Killy but not 3V. Used to like 3V back in the 90's but it became too British, then went to EK and that went same way. Before anyone jumps on me and says well what about St Anton, well yes plenty of Brits but not so many and plenty of area to get away from them. Used to ski Verbier loads 2000-2008 but it got mega expensive and tbph I didn't like seeing all the bankers throwing champagne about in Verbier when the rest of us were in recession.
You'll like vernier, personally its too expensive for us right now, but we'll go back one day, great skiing. Tortin, Mont Gele, Mont Fort, Plan de Fou, Chassoure (?) big moguls, etc.........
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You know it makes sense.
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@under a new name,  . Yeah... I love bumps (sometimes)....but there are bumps and then there are bumps. They are less fun when they haven't seen new snow for a fortnight, you're an intermediate skier and they are your only option, unless you bail out and take the gondola....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Perty, there is much to love about bumps. it starts by knowing and practising how to turn on one. then it gets easy. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Talking about bumps.
I bumped into Victoria Beckham in Verbier. I did not in the 3V. Sums it up
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I love bumps when I get them right - rubbish when you get them wrong. Gives you the incentive to learn how to do them properly! Still a way to go until I get to that point though....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I love Verbier, but I love anywhere snowy and hilly.
From reading your opening post it doesn't sound like you get off the beaten track too much. in that case I'd go 3V
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @Perty, there is much to love about bumps. it starts by knowing and practising how to turn on one. then it gets easy. |
Indeed. I can ski bumps, and even enjoy them. But lots of people don't. If an intermediate skier were parked at the top of Tortin and told it was their only way down, they would most likely freak out! I think the 3v offers more for the intermediate skier who likes to travel easily between resorts on great runs.
(Though for what it's worth, I think Verbier is overrated, unless you are a real off piste nut).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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On reflection - I think Verbier skiers fall into 2 camps, those who like the image and kudos of saying they ski Verbier, and those who actually do ski the best it can offer and so get the best out of the area. If you like big-country challenging off-piste it sits in a handful of European resorts than can offer that experience, and areas like Tortin, Vallon D'Arby, Mont Fort are amazing areas to ski. It is unfortunately overpriced, accommodation prices centrally are a lash (not just down to the exchange rate, they always were) and quality (unless you pay through the nose) in my experience poor, next time if and when we go we will stay down in the valley and travel up daily, Verbier town is not a great place imo. Fantastic skiing though and very varied, albeit getting about from valley to valley can be a tad confusing at times.
We once thought we had sussed the accommodation issue, stayed 3 times in Nendaz at a great small hotel, first 2x it worked fine because the link over to Siviez was open and mid season conditions were great, last time however it was not and we had to mess about on buses which was a nightmare. I wish they'd sort that link, we'd then give it another go as and when the exchange rate improves but regional issues seem to be holding that back.....
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
We once thought we had sussed the accommodation issue, stayed 3 times in Nendaz at a great small hotel, first 2x it worked fine because the link over to Siviez was open and mid season conditions were great, last time however it was not and we had to mess about on buses which was a nightmare. I wish they'd sort that link, we'd then give it another go as and when the exchange rate improves but regional issues seem to be holding that back.....
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The link was improved last season with a high speed chair from Siviez replacing the old chair/ drag though the drag is still there if you want to repeat the top section.
We always stay up at Nendaz where the view are much better than Verbiers and the prices as you say lower. But we also rent a car for transfers and driving up to Siviez is not a problem.
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If you want to explore and stay on piste it's very hard to beat the 3 Valleys. The area is massive and the lift system is so efficient that it's very easy to do big mileage in different directions each day and you are not going to ski the whole area in a week.
Regarding how beautiful it looks, I think all big mountains with a lot of snow look great.
It is very British and I understand the comments about the whole tourist feel but I'd never let that bother me.
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We have an apartment in La Tzoumaz, part of the Verbier-centered, Quatre Valées Domain. Obviously, we're biased, but you may find that it is worth looking at, as accommodation is cheaper (like Nendaz) but links are probably better than the latter. You can generally get to the Ruinettes mid-station as fast, and sometimes faster, than if you were staying in Verbier and had to queue at Médran. There have been some articles recently on La Tzoumas in terms of being a typical 'satellite' resort:
The Guardian 6.12.14
http://www.theguardian.com/travel/2014/dec/06/satellite-ski-resorts-verbier-four-valleys-switzerland
"Satellite ski resorts – how to get Verbier snow for half the dough"
Mail Online 26.3.13
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2296527/How-Verbier-cheap--stay-little-sister-La-Tzoumaz.html
"Meet Verbier's chic little sister: Luxury for less on a chalet break in La Tzoumaz"
Observer 17.11.12 (Observer is Sunday edition of The Guardian)
http://www.theguardian.com/travel/2012/nov/18/cheap-ski-resorts
"10 cheap ski resorts: in the shadow of giants"
Financial Times 2.11.2012
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/94dc9da2-1f6e-11e2-b273-00144feabdc0.html
"With new chalets and lifts, the more modest and uncrowded La Tzoumaz is stepping out of Verbier’s shadow."
Typical of the press, these articles tend to focus on the more up-market chalets. However, the village is oriented towards self-catered apartments as well. Here's the typical sort of place on offer, from the agency that rents out our place (typical middle-of-the road, 4-comfortable/6-at-a-squeeze places). Change the search criteria to find something different. Bear in mind a couple of things - the number of rooms includes the living area, so 3-room is 2 bedrooms; and Swiss apartments tend to be more spacious than French i.e. a 2-bedroom apartment in Switzerland would have the same m² floor area as a 3-bedroom apartment in France).
http://www.carron-immobilier.ch/en/component/osproperty/?property_type=2&category_id=8&fields=&option=com_osproperty&task=property_advsearch&Itemid=312&show_advancesearchform=0&searchmoduletype_id_1=1%2C2%2C3%2C4%2C5%2C7&searchmoduletype_id_2=1%2C2%2C3%2C4%2C5%2C7&searchmodulefield_ids=
I've nothing against the 4 Valleys and our family have skiied there many times. What attracted us to return to Switzerland was the relatively shorter queues, and the quality of instruction. If you've not done so already, take a look at the Verbier website at www.verbier.ch
In terms of transportation, train/gondola/bus is a viable option - see the Swiss Travel website at www.sbb.ch If you're doing the public transport option, it's generally better to arrive in GVA before 13:00 and depart after 14:00 as you may have to change from bus/train and from local/intercity. However, we find that it's generally cheaper for 4+ people to hire a car, in which case hire form the Swiss side, where winter tyres, chains and motorway vignette are usually included.
Switzerland has a reputation for being expensive, but I think that this is true of many resorts, and the pricy parts of Verbier are no pricier than the pricey parts of Courcheval 1850, Vail, and so on. I'd admit that the skipass costs more than many other Alpine resorts, but that is up-front and obvious - you can decide. Similarly if you go for a Tour Operator holiday, then they also tend to be pricier. You can certainly spend a lot on an on-piste, up-market lunch if you're not careful, but again, this is true of many other places as well.
I'd also recommend looking at the Swiss Tourism website http://www.myswitzerland.com/en-gb/home.html and the London Swiss Travel Centre http://www.stc.co.uk/ as well. The latter are very helpful and both often have special offers.
If you like La Tzoumaz I'd suggest that you might also contact the Tourist Office, especially if you have any special preferences etc. and leave them to dig out some options for you: http://www.latzoumaz.ch/ It's not a staggeringly slick website, to be honest, I think because they are more oriented towards email/telephone enquiries - a lot of the German and Dutch visitors tend to book this way, directly via an Agency like Carron or via the Tourist office. The Office de Tourisme will have contacts with local owners who don't necessarily advertise via an Agency (this is true wherever you choose, of course, including France).
Last edited by After all it is free  on Sun 18-10-15 16:44; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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After St. Anton staying at La Tzoumaz will be like staying in the middle of a cemetery. It's too quiet. Great for families with little children but less so for everyone else.
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It depends, of course, on what you're after. It's always hard to make recommendations to someone without a dialogue. Just because someone stays, say, in St.Anton or Verbier, it doesn't mean they're party hounds. If you're a very keen off-piste skier, then La Tzoumaz is nearer the Heliport at Croix de Coeur and great for someone who is happy to spend that sort of money on a helicopter. If you have a young family and are effectively housebound in the evening, then you might prefer the flexibility of an apartment of chalet rather than a hotel. If you have non-skiing snowshoe types in the group, then LTZ would be pretty good combination. But complete novices might be better omewhere else, as the learner slope is small. And so on. But yes, I would certainly not propose La Tzoumaz if you intend to party 'till 4am. I think, though that the nature of most locations is fairly clear from their websites and you'll see form the La Tzoumaz one that the bias is families, couples and self-catering. In that respect, the articles are a bit misleading - not in terms of the quality of Chalet accommodation but if you want to combine a chalet stay with a lively nightlife, á là Verbier - but I suspect that the original poster can work that out for themselves.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Perty,
| Quote: |
If an intermediate skier were parked at the top of Tortin and told it was their only way down, they would most likely freak out!
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This is where they stop being intermediate skiers They've got to ski it one day anyway. Some opt for gondola as there is no real bail option once you get to traverse, but others opt to give it a try. I don't remember seeing anyone turning back. Snow there tend to be very good even when it's less good elsewhere, and it stays good for a while after a snowfall too.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You're right @msej449, it's very hard to recommend somewhere without knowing anything about their skiing or likes & dislikes! On the other hand I can't think of anywhere else I would find the expertise & experience here on Snowheads. As it happens, we're definitely not party hounds - I did it all back in the day in St Anton, but now prefer sharing talk tales in a quiet bar. I dream of going up in a helicopter one day, but sadly the money for that hasn't materialised!
Well after all your help on here, we've just booked our trip..... to Tignes. The fact that we couldn't decide made us talk about other places we've been & we're going back to Tignes which is one of my favourite places to go. Thanks again for all the help even though I'm ignoring it for this year! Verbier & 3V are still on the list & I'll probably dig this thread out again in a few years time for reference.
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Hey, no problem - I'm sure you'll have a great time wherever you choose. Another thing to take away might be the run-down on the 'satellite' resorts in the links I posted: it's quite common on Snowheads to find someone will reply with a "Had you thought about .." in reference to a linked resort. Obviously, Switzerland hasn't got a monopoly on these. Enjoy your holiday ...
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You know it makes sense.
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Very useful thanks - we're big fans of 'satellite' resorts & wouldn't have even known about the ones around Verbier. As it happens, we've booked for Tignes Les Boisses rather than any of the main Tignes locations, so following this thread's advise, even if it is in a completely different ski area!
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FAQ
