Struggling to find snowchains to fit?

A snowHead

Hi there, we have a golf estate with low profile tyres. My husband did a bit of research into which snow chains we could get a little while ago and found some websites that Implied that we would have trouble finding anything reasonably priced to fit. It seems to be because of the gap between the tyre and the wheel arch.

I was wondering if anyone had come across this problem and what you did about it? Is there a way around spending hundreds on chains we may never need?

Thank you! X

A snowHead

Buy steels and winter tyres that fit better? Get some smaller rim size higher profile on all four corners and you'll have a much nicer ride.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I had the same issue with mr RS6, in the end went to a garage and tried several sets to see which fitted the best.

Couldn't use full lock and needed a pump trolley jack to put them on and off but apart from that they worked a treat!

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Stick the make and model into here:

https://www.tyreleader.co.uk

And then see what deals there are on steel wheels, winter tyres and snow chains.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Chains are your last ditch solution,
First get your self a set of winter tyres on steel wheels.

If your going to regularly to the mountains or even to southern Germany you will need them.
Its just another expense to fork out on.

But you'll be safer driving on them in temperatures below +7c
Then take them off in March and leave them at the back of the garage till December again.

Then you can get your shiny alloy low profiles on for the summer.

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We have an Audi A4 with low profile tyres , and technically the bumph says we can't put chains on it, but we have, and they work. Drove with the chains on for 4 hours on that Saturday last winter just after Christmas when everything ground to a halt and we were trying to get home from Morzine. However, husband always deals with it, so I don't know the details, but just because the websites imply it won't work, it doesn't necessarily mean it won't.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

The definitive authority on whether your car and setup can take chains is not any 3rd-party site or chain dealer; it's not someone on a web forum who'se managed to get away with a dodgy combination (so far); it's the manufacturer. Look in your Owner's Manual and if it's ambiguous, ask your VW service department. If they tell you it's not certified then there's a genuine reason why - its nothing to do with trying to sell you some new wheels and tyres, it's because as manufacturer, they think the margins are too narrow for safety. As I've said on other threads, it all hinges around the amount of space that's left between the inner side of the tyres and the suspension/steering/brakes. If you have lower-profile tyres and wheels, then you may simply not have enough space left.

On my A3 I bit the bullet and got a set of 7Jx17" winter alloys and winter tyres to replace the summer 8Jx18" low-profiles that were specifically not certified for chains. When I measured the available space it was clear that there really wasn't enough free space between the tyre and all the suspension, braking and steering gubbins on the summer 8Js for the chains to safely rotate. Especially as I was pretty sure that in real life, I wouldn't fit them absolutely perfectly. What really turned me off was that I'd had chain vendors saying things like "They should be OK." and "Well, give them a try out and see if they fit" - clearly, they didn't have a clue. While most retailers knew what they were doing, there were enough who clearly didn't care.

Even if it turns out you can take chains then as others have said, I'd still seriously consider getting winter tyres.

Yes, I know, it's a a big expense. Especially if you don't use the car for winter trips every year (well, it's expensive even if you do). But bear in mind that winter tyres are beneficial even in an average UK winter because their main feature is the chemistry of the tyres compounds, which offers significantly better traction below 7C, even on dry roads. If you commute in the rush hour, then even in Southern England, temperatures regularly fall below this for 3-4 months.

I got away with carrying chains and summer tyres for 6-7 years of driving down to the Alps to ski. I was just lucky that I never hit any snowfall, and in particular, mixed tarmac/snow - where chains are useless. Then I got winter tyres and we must have been one of only a few cars that got out of Besançon and across the Jura following a night's continuous snowfall. I never needed the chains again, but I do carry them for the worst conditions still. We've probably really needed the winter tyres 1 out of 3/4 winters since (if you include in the UK as well).

Technically, strictly speaking it's the wheel width that is key, which is the 'J' number above i.e. 7J is 7"-wide wheels, 8J = 8" wide and so on). Unfortunately, the corresponding tyre width is in mm (just to confuse everyone) and the tyre width is the first figure on the tyre designation e.g. 225/45 V 18 is a tyre that's 225mm wide. If you have the wheels as out of the factory i.e. haven't changed them, then the Owners Manual will give you a table that ties these two together e.g. '8Jx18 (wheels) 225/45-V-18 (tyres)': and this will be OK/not for chains.

Often, people will say that a particular wheel diameter can/can't take chains - this is really an indirect way of referring to the corresponding wheel width, as in most cases, a specific diameter (such as 18") has only one wheel width (8J) and tyre width (225mm). In the case of my A3, when I asked the mechanics, they said "You're 18" wheels aren't certified to take chains - they're too big.". What they really meant was that the 18" wheels were 8Jx18 and that 8" wide wheels carrying the factory 225mm-wide tyres weren't certified: fitting typical 20mm chains left only 5mm of free space between the chains (on the inner side of the tyre) and suspension/steering - really not good enough of a margin for the things as they fly 'round, even if fitted perfectly.

You can get thin ner chains - more like 8-9mm and these might give you a more confortable margin. But they are much more prone to snapping - I know two people whose chains snapped last winter and both had thin-type chains.

After all it is free

I use these:

http://www.weissenfels.com/en/snow-chains/quattro

Oh and as I just said on another thread, a tip for chain fitting practice is to initially try them on the spare wheel: it's much easier to fit them and see how they should sit when the wheel isn't attached to a car Happy

Then once you've mastered this, try them out on the actual vehicle. This also helps you to see how best to store them for easy removal from the bag and fitting when you're up that mountain in the dark and knee-deep in snow.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

I'm just trying to envisage trying chains on a spare wheel. On the car, you push the chain behind the wheel, then take an end in both hands, then lift it up and fasten the ends together , in front of the wheel. Then join the top joining chains (often helpfully colour coded) before pushing the the heavy wire bit right over the back of the wheel. Can't envisage how you do that effectively with a spare wheel - do you have it standing up? Strikes me as more useful to practice on a wheel in situ.

Mind you, I do have one friend who, having bought chains in a supermarket before starting up a very snowy mountain road, proceeded to jack the car up before putting the first chain on, in the car park, much to the astonishment of an onlooking Frenchman who came and showed him how to do it, on the other wheel. My friend claimed his effort was much neater. Laughing

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Snow socks?

snow reports

Buy Autosocks have used them on my Audi A4 several times and they're great i'd never go back to chains.

Chains ans socks should be IN ADDITION to winter tyres, not INSTEAD OF it!

You know it makes sense.

Thank you all for your replies.

Msej449 we will take your good advice and speak to vw.

Laundryman we will have a look at those chains. Although expensive they might do the trick. We might see if we can hire them.

A few of you have mentioned snow socks instead of chain. Is this legally acceptable? I thought that in certain areas you had to carry snow chains?

We have looked into winter tyres but as its a company car it gets a bit more complicated. We only have a couple more years left with this car before its changed so don't really want to be buying new wheels for it.

Thank you all for replying!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

http://www.autosock.co.uk/faqs/#q12

A snowHead

I found VW particularly unhelpful when I had a similar issue with a Passat. The issue was that the UK spec summer wheels were wider than the German spec which would cause the part of the chain on the inside of the wheel to potentially foul the suspension and brake pipes.
In the end I ended up with Maggi TRAK sport (other brands are available) chains which although expensive did the trick. However you still need to have sufficient clearance between the tyre and bodywork.
I was able to resell on ebay for a little more than half my original outlay.

A snowHead

there is a good after market for winter tyres on steel wheels for popular model cars as well.
eBay in eBay out

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Other than looking nice what is the purpose of alloy wheels?

They are a pain to fit winter tyres or chains to. They are weaker than steel wheels, prone to scuffing and expensive to buy. A work colleage is having a nightmare with his because the garage just broke TWO wheel nut keys trying to get the wheels off after someone torqued them on too tightly!. May have to weld a steel nut on to it to get it off now. In the meantime he is having to pump his slow punctured tyre up each day.

Are they really worth the bother for a bit of fashion and vanity or do they perform better in some way Puzzled

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Alloys make no difference to fitting chains, it's just that people get terribly precious about them and don't want to risk scratches.

You'll need to Register first of course.

@pam w, the main issue is low profile tyres - which generally are fitted to alloy wheels - not alloy wheels per se. Hence my choice of chain which keeps itself well out of the way.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

This link may be of some interest and pretty much anything that fits octavia will fit golf but if you scroll down there are audi and vw wheels too. By fitting winter tyres on 6 x 16 wheels you will save a fortune vice 18 tyres ( more than the cost of the wheels difference if you consider one seasons changeover charge as well) and the chains will be easy and cheap to find. This is exactly what I have done on my Octavia and I have been hugely pleased with the results, having no trouble whatsoever durign Snowmageddon.

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/The-Skoda-Parts-Shop/_i.html?_nkw=wheel&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

After all it is free

"Struggling to find snowchains to fit?" ... which eventually will become 'struggling to fit snowchains'. I would recommend buying quality, the cheaper ones can be horrendous to fit. Another piece of advice - avoid the YouTube demos of how to fit them - invariably in a dry parking lot in mid-summer. Try this on the Flexen Pass in a blizzard and they don't slip on so easily!

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

OK thanks for that. So alloys are better for performance and large car wheels. It seems however that the weight of steel wheels is an advantage in winter, so if money is no barrier then alloys for summer and steels for winter is the best option. snowHead

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Personally I couldn't be bothered with the faf of changing wheels twice a year so we used socks for our S-max which are very easy and quick to fit and got us through 60 miles of quite deep snow.
We then discovered Goodyear Vector all season tyres which are probably not quite as good as winter tyres on ice + snow but massively better than summer tyres, we ploughed through snow that had 4x4s on summer tyres floundering, they wear about the same as the summer tyres we were using, less tendancy to aquaplane in deep puddles, Probably less grip on dry roads than summer tyres but it's extremely rare to require 100% of the grip on dry roads but very common to use 100% of the grip on ice & snow. we just left them on all year round and we were wearing the fronts out every 12 months so it worked well with a new pair every November. even if you end up binning tyres that are not fully worn out, it works out cheaper and easier than swapping tyres twice a year.

Interestigly, on deep snow, the S-max with the wide, low profile Vectors on was much better than my transit van with winters on, the car "floated" over the surface whilst the van sank in. I ran the van on winters all year round.

snow reports

@breeze11, What size wheels and tyres do you have - I will be selling a pair of MaggiTrak chains shortly at a considerable discount from new price - I had these for my Audi Allroad they would fit safely when officially the size of tyres and wheels indicated no fit for conventional chains.

You know it makes sense.

[quote="RobinS"]@breeze11, What size wheels and tyres do you have - I will be selling a pair of MaggiTrak chains shortly at a considerable discount from new price - I had these for my Audi Allroad they would fit safely when officially the size of tyres and wheels indicated no fit for conventional chains.[/quotje]

Hi there, the size is 225/45r17.

The car is going in for a service on Friday so we are going to ask then but I would be very interested to know how much of they fit?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@Peter S, Actually alloy wheels are better for small and light cars not heavy ones. It is the ratio between sprung and unsprung weight that is important.

A snowHead

@breeze11, I think mine would be too big - the Audi had 225/55/17, but will check.

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Struggling to find snowchains to fit?

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