Carving drills

A snowHead

u brain suggested starting a thread on this. I haven't visited in a few days (long flight from the old colonies and all that Very Happy

), but it seemed interested to start a thread on drills for carving.

The first and easiest drill: a carved uphill arc.

For this drill, use your poles to support you into a position with your skis pointing 45 degrees across a gentle slope (for you!).
Release your poles and begin to slide downhill and across the slope.
Tip your uphill ski into the hill and simultaneously tip your downhill ski into the hill, as well (keeping your lower legs roughly parallel). As you do this, think of slicing across the hill as you would slice bread with a smooth knife.
Continue tipping your skis while balancing on the uphill edges (do not lean your body either into the hill or away from it!) until your skis turn uphill to a stop.
Now, review your tracks. They should be two distinct, clean arcs from start to finish.
Next, turn across the hill the other way, and do it in the other direction.

A few notes:

Safety first! This is a slow-speed across-the-hill exercise. Check uphill and make sure that you are clearly visible from above.
Your skis really can make clear arcs! If there is any sliding anywhere in the arc, tip more!
To tip enough, you'll likely have to angulate a bit. This means that your body will make a bit of a C shape.
There is absolutely no rotation force in this drill!
Do this a number of times. You'll get better each time.
Be sure to think across the hill and balance on your edges. In other words, not "dig in" or balance "against" your edges.

While this is the easiest carving drill, it is not necessarily easy. I know a number of instructors who cannot do this drill! They just do not tip their skis enough and/or they insist on applying rotary forces.

Let me know your thoughts. More drills shortly...

A snowHead

One secret to being able to create linked carved turns is a clean release from the previous turn. A "release" is the process of tipping your skis towards the downhill side until they let go of their grip on the snow. On hard snow, a released ski will sideslip down the hill.

This drill is called a "static release" by Rusty Guy who taught it to me:

Stand on your skis across the hill, edges at the same angle holding you still on the snow.
Move your downhill foot, leg, and body forward and downhill to flatten the ski onto the snow.
Follow your downhill ski with your uphill ski at the same time. If you do this correctly, your skis will slide forward and downhill simultaneously.
As the skis begin to slide, apply rotary force to turn them as fast as you can to an uphill stop.

Again, a few notes:

The move with the body is a gentle move that effectively moves your belly-button towards the fat part of the turn. This, combined with a lengthening of your legs helps to flatten the skis.
Do not rotate until after your skis have started to slide. One of the keys to this drill is understanding that your skis will "turn" downhill without any help from you! Just "release" them to do it.

Comments welcome!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

ssh, I misread your first point initially - thought you said

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Ha! That wouldn't be too easy, would it? Laughing

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Just to clarify for folk over this side of the water, "rotary force" tends to mean what we call "steering". Bizarrely enough, much ski teaching over here is now focussing on "steering" or "turning the feet". It seems as though someone decided that carving was being over-emphasised, in itself a reaction to all the years of "terminal skidders" produced by the lower level ski lessons, and people were no longer being encouraged to steer. Hence intermediates (and even advanced skiers) were finding they had little speed control on steeper slopes. (NB steering does not mean heel-pushing or other peculiar twisting movements!)

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Interesting, Alan.

In my drills, I try to do some isolation of these skills (tipping, turning, flex/extend). I found that I was very tipping-biased, so I have had to work hard on my rotary skills. More on that later, too.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Got a question about carving - which may illustrate just how little I know about it!
The tracks that are left by a carved turn are an arc if you've done it correctly. Is the radius of that arc determined by the length of the skis, or the amount you edge the ski into the hill, or is it both?
I find I can't do carved turns on steeper slopes because a) the speed can be scary and b) I'm scared there isn't enough width on the slope to make the turn? Is it just a case of practising on the shallower slopes to make the turns smaller?
cheers...

After all it is free

Mountain, it's neither, the radius of the carved turn is determined by the radius of the side of the ski, Head used to actually but this in the title of the Ski's e.g Cyber 28X was a carving radius of 28M (Race Carvers). The length of the ski has little bearing on its turn radius.

That's for those nice smooth carved turns, if you want to do carved turns on a steep section of piste you have two options

i. Make the angle you turn through smaller so you go closer to the fall line of the slope.

ii. Change to a pair of skis with a tighter turn radius to be able to traverse the slope as you zig zag down it.

Hope that helps a bit.

Kind of DG - to do i. the smaller angle - is that by getting the ski to 'bite' more as I initiate the turn?
Suddenly realise how difficult it is to put into words what feels 'natural' on the slope!

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Sorry MM what I mean is the angle you turn through, i.e instead of doing wide S's down the slope going from one side to the other of the slope you take the slope closer to a straight line flatening the S's width wise.

This means that you change direction far more times per minute/second (if going really fast), the radius of the carved turn is entirely dependant on the ski design and you will never be able to get a tighter carved radius than the radius of the ski edge, you can however increase the radius by not putting so much pressure into the turn thus not forcing the ski to make the tightest turn it can do.

This is why skiers need a variety of techniques for getting down the mountain in one piece whilst enjoying themselves.

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Aah, but I think "..or the amount you edge the ski into the hill..." is meant to refer to the angle the ski makes with the slope when on its edge. If it is, then it does have a bearing on the radius of the turn.

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Good grief, yes I suppose so, sometimes it is very difficult to explain without a convenient ski slope and a range of skis to hand rolling eyes

yep thats the one marc - so if i can bend more - and get my knees closer to the mountain I can get tighter turns?
Then can complete the turn on a narrower slope... (have been reading Bob Barnes post on skiing the slow line fast! - fantastic info - printed out for next year!)
Damn - need more snow time Exclamation

You know it makes sense.

Mountain yes and no, if you are already turning carved turns at the minimum possible radius you will not be able to turn a tighter radius, if not then yes you can, of course you can always turn tighter turns, the tightest being the almost 0 M Jump turn but these turns will not be carved.

Is that any clearer Wink

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

yes it is - wish I could go and practice!

A snowHead

MM, you can adjust your turn radius even in a carved turn in two ways, one of which requires more skill than the other.

The first and easiest way is to increase the edge angle of the ski. If you think about how far you can decamber a ski (reverse the arc), you'll realize that a gentle edge angle will result in a relatively long turn radius, while getting your ski almost vertical will result in a much tigher turn radius. So, one of the key ways to change the radius is to learn how to get greater edge angle applied.

The other is to use pressure on the skis. While Bob Barnes disagrees with this somewhat, it is possible to increase the local arc for a portion of the ski by applying more pressure there. For example, pressuing the front of the skis will increase the local decambering and create a more dramatic turn radius. However, it is difficult to adjust the pressure during the turn to maintain a carve and keep the skis from skidding as a result of the (arguably) "artificial" turn radius. That is why this requires considerably more skill.

Note: My 170cm Fischer RX8s have a 14m turn radius. The 160 has the same sidecut dimensions, so has a tigher turn radius (13m, IIRC). So, length does have an impact on the radius a particular ski model can turn.

A snowHead

SSH length may have an effect some makers such as head have in the past produced skis in different lengths but with the same sidecut, others use the same widths so give a different sidecut for each length, confusing isn't it ?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Well, the good news is that most manufacturers now put the dimensions and the turn radius on the skis. So, all we have to do is look! Wink

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Absolutely, the thing to bear in mind is that shorter skis with smaller radii will be more manoverable, but that longer skis with bigger radii will be faster and more stable, thus the reason that beginners tend to learn on shorter skis.

Note there is nothing wrong with any type of ski but it's rather like cars, you wouldn't sensibly drive a Ferrari down a farm track or try entering a Landrover in a F1 Grand Prix. Theoretically you could actually want 4 or more pairs of skis but in reality most people make do with one pair that copes with most of the conditions they encounter.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Great stuff going on here - really useful. Could someone perhaps explain if my understanding of the following is correct.

On my last lesson, the guy I was being coached by said that when I was about to execute a turn to get the pressure on early. By this, I assumed he meant transferring weight to the uphill ski quite early in the turn to initiate the turn. It seemed to make sense and work at the time, so I'm guessing that the interpretation is correct.

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In fact depending on your angle to the slope you may find transfering the weight is sufficient to turn on its own, try it on a nice long gentle blue run going straight down the fall line and you should see what I mean

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

From that D G, I think I can see your point. Thanks.

So if you're taking wider traverses, or a sharpish turn at higher speed, transferring your weight in good time and getting the pressure on nice and early will indeed initiate the turn.

After all it is free

Basically yes, but you have to bear in mind that i'm heavier than the average skier with powerful leg muscles so it's easier for me to do that sort of thing Embarassed

Here is a picture of Mr Orf from his last skiing holiday (I'm presuming he was about to go into the pool for a dip)

DG Orf - the man himself

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Yep - just as we thought, the squirrel got him

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Oh God I'd kill for a body like that Laughing

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But just think how many shirts/pairs of trousers you'd go through - every time you tensed up you'd rip straight through them!

How do you know I don't do that anyway Masopa

You know it makes sense.

Thanks D G. I'm guessing (and it's not a competition) that as average weight skiers go, I'd need to be half the man I am now to make the grade Embarassed

well almost Exclamation

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

But presumably for other reasons! Laughing

A snowHead

Mark that pretty well sums me up, thogh thank God the legs can keep going or I'd be in reall trouble Cool

A snowHead

Amen to that Exclamation

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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That'll be making nice S's rathan than Z's then ssh?! See, I did learn something!

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

ssh everybody has individual prefrances, one of the nicest things I saw this year was a group of Brits skiing privately with the ski instructor, one of who was looking to get new skis, they hired a different pair each day and after 4 days the instructor gave his view as to which had done the most for the persons skiing. In that case they both agreed and the skis were purchased.

However my earlier coment was a generalisation, most people will have no more than 1 pair of skis or a single snow board, they therefore choose one that suits their style, I'm old school and heavy so I use a long pair of race carve skis with minimal sidecut because I find them good to ski on, others might pefer to spend more time off piste or in the moguls and would probably not choose the same skis as myself.

Stability is as much down to style as it is the skis, if you are constantly carving with them any carving ski will be stable as one of its edges will always bein contact with the piste, only in downhill mode with the skis flat against the snow does stability become an issue.

DG, what a greate idea that Brit had to get the ski that made the biggest difference. Unfortunately, sometimes characteristics not related to the ski (like binding position and binding ramp angle) can make more difference than the ski itself!

I get your point--really, I do. I just spent this fall skiing on 16 different skis before I selected the ones that I am now on. With the changes in my skiing this year, I suspect that they would ski differently now, and I'm looking forward to demoing a bunch again to see. I tend to ski faster than about 90% of skiers, and that was a key consideration for my choice. So was ability to carve and ability to ski the entire mountain. I have only one pair of modern skis.

My question to you, DG, is whether or not you've been out on some of the super-stable carvers like the RX8, Atomic SX11, Elan S12 Fusion, or Volkl 6 Star. You can likely ski them in a shorter length (around 170cm) and as fast as you care to go. Probably... Wink

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I was going to try a new pair this year but I wanted to find some new boots first, unfortunately I could't find the new boots so in the end I just saved my money, ah well maybe next year Crying or Very sad

Help!!

Carving drills

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