 Poster: A snowHead
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This year I may have to ski earlier than usual, I am looking for good skiing about the second week of December in Europe, where is my best bet? I am upper intermediate ( enjoy blacks, still struggling in powder.)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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In France, Tignes or Val Thorens.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks, which is the best bet between those two or is it a close call?
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Les deux alpes, the glacier should be open and also should be open down to 2600 "usually" as well as what pam w, said above
I have also skied Zermatt early december and it was fantastic conditions...better than anywhere else at the time................but its all luck really!!
I would wait until nearer the time, as accomodation will be easy to get that early
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Chris_55, you also have lots of options and more runs if you look towardsany of the 6 Austrian ski areas with glaciers, as well as a few higher ones that don't. Way more skiing at Kaprun, Stubai and Hintertux than Tignes or any of the French glacier resorts and you don't need to go so high either. Sölden will be open although probably not completely due to the lack of customers, but there was more than enough ther when Inside-Outside did their first outdoor trip there starting December 9th in 2009. Other places that are non-glacier based include Schladming Obertauern, Kühtai, Ischgl (bit expensive but worth every penny!). In Switzerland there is Zermatt of course but also other skiing areas may well be open as well, just pray for a better exchange rate!
As others will also advise, wait until closer to the time and see what your options are in terms of snow cover. austria was better than France in the early part of this past season but things can be so different from one year to the next. do the research but don't book anything until it is clear where is open and where isn't.
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Zermatt or Cervinia definitely. The links between the two will be open by then. In my experience a good chunk of each resort should be open too. We regularly visit Zermatt in late November "preseason" and enjoy skiing both sides on the glacier and down to about 2400m. I think Zermatt officially opens for the winter season on about 6th December when even more of the ski area open up. The only issue is keeping an eye on the weather if you're the wrong side for your accommodation as the lifts will close when it gets windy (which can be quite often at that altitude).
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@Samerberg Sue, I'm not sure how all those Austria resorts will have " way more" skiing than Tignes. In mid December when whole Espace Killy should be open. Other way round I would say.
I would wait till last minute. If you want to book early and be really safe- Zermatt must have more skiing above 3000m than anywhere in Europe. But you have wind issue
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Whatever country you visit my advice would be to select from the resorts offering the highest terrain. By the 2nd week of December in a typical season you are not going to be limited to skiing on glaciers, but it is useful insurance in case of unseasonably poor snow to have access to high terrain including a skiable glacier. We've run a trip in the second week of December to the Trois Vallees for the past five years, and with the exception of last winter have had a good range of pistes available and sometimes some great off-piste snow. Last winter was a historically poor start to the season and we were glad to have access to the high terrain around Val Thorens, where conditions above 2500m were actually pretty good.
One thing to bear in mind if you are looking to develop your off-piste skills, that early in the season the snowpack depth is usually at its thinest so there can be little or no base for skiing off piste. You could get lucky early season snow which gives you some great off-piste days, but those won't be typical.
In terms of your best bet, perhaps waiting until late November and see what region is offering the best conditions would be the wisest choice. At that time of year there will be no problem getting last minute accommodation, although you might pay more for your flights if you leave that booking until closer to your date of travel.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Another one to add to your list is Ischgl in Austria - I've done early December trips there three times (2010-2012), and always had excellent conditions - pretty much the whole resort open, and not really feeling like pre-season either.
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@peanuthead, I think @Samerberg Sue was comparing the size of the actual glacier's and the amount guaranteed early season conditions, and indeed she is right the three glaciers stated have much more skiing KM's than the French alternatives. IF the whole of the EK is open unlike last year for example then yes the EK would have alot more skiing. The OP is saying "where is my best bet", i.e. where are the best guaranteed early season conditions. Ischgl would probs be my vote, 200km + of early season skiing and won't be a ghost town either.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'd have Ischgl high on my list. Keep in mind that a cheap place with guaranteed great snow for mid December doesn't actually exist in June. It may well do in December though hence people's comments about leaving it late. You could of course book flights early (to eg Geneva, Zurich or Salzburg) and fine tune accommodation in December. Though there is still a risk that you might find more snow in the west than east or vice versa. In terms of leaving it late it does really mean late. The conditions in early November won't be much guide for mid December. And @rob@rar's point about early season off piste conditions is worth remembering.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Val Thorens will have most pistes above the village open by then pretty much regardless of the weather, but the off piste can be non existent at that time.
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Ischgl or Zillertal (probably much of the Mayrhofen area open at that point, with Hintertuxer Glacier as a backup).
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You know it makes sense.
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If you want to keep costs lowest, decide which airport and buy a flight now, then leave the accommodation/resort choice till the last minute. Don't forget the cost of transfers.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
| IF the whole of the EK is open unlike last year for example then yes the EK would have alot more skiing. The OP is saying "where is my best bet", i.e. where are the best guaranteed early season conditions |
While accepting that last winter's pre-Christmas snow was pretty disastrous, in the case of Espace Killy it was a bit of a one off.
However, the whole of Espace Killy is rarely available on opening day - it generally opens gradually as the snow comes. Historically though, (although I stand to be corrected here) I'd say that a meaningful amount of Espace Killy has been open by mid December in 8 or 9 of the last 10 seasons - thus probably negating the need to emphasise the word IF in the quotation above - which suggests that 'You'll be lucky'....
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Poster: A snowHead
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We managed to ski first weekend of December last season at Cervinia. Pretty much everywhere else closed, and whole of Cervinia and link to Zermatte open. Great on and off piste skiing, good food on slopes, lovely town to mouch around pm. We stayed at Hotel Miravidi Annex which was central and a little noisy (didn't bother the kids) and ate at the main hotel which is in a quieter location but still only 5mins walk from town- and has a couple of terrific meals there.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Very helpful, thanks all
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I was in tignes 2nd week in dec last year and only glacier and double m open. No links to val disere and frustratingly some made snow on a few pistes but the lifts weren't open yet. Some hardy souls skinned up to ski down. I've been in the last 4 PSBs there the first week in dec it varied from not enough snow to too much it was too dangerous to open lifts to amazing conditions plenty snow and blue skies. So I'm afraid it's a gamble. I skied kaprun in November last year. It was open to mid station on kitzteinerhorn but no snow in kaprun or zell then.
I'm toying with the idea of some of the other Austrian glaciers in dec this year but haven't decided yet.
. @Gämsbock, have you got anything organised yet?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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owever, the whole of Espace Killy is rarely available on opening day
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The same could be said of most resorts surely. Even in good snow years with lower visitor numbers they only open selected pistes
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Second Ischgl. Will be in Obergurgl myself. 4th time mid Dec. Always been great.
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I will be in Tignes from around 25 Nov and would expect most of the EK to be open in the 2nd week of Dec (with the exception of the bit down to Les Brev which normally opens in the late teens of Dec). I am not sure when the 3V opens up further than Val T. But to repeat the best advice above - buy a flight to Geneva now and then make your resort decision with a week to go - accom will be plentiful. 2nd bit of advice - read the snow reports for Tignes on sH from late Nov - you can be sure I don't sugar coat it! (Yes I was one of those 'skinners' last year  )
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you can be sure I don't sugar coat it!
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an important point. Some "sugar coating" has sometimes been seen on SHs - or at any rate, local enthusiasts taking issue with folk who report that the snow is a bit ropey.
Last Dec/Christmas even the most ardent local enthusiasts couldn't credibly deny that snow was very poor across much of the Alps (not just in France). That really was exceptionally bad but there is no conceivably reason to book accommodation now for the second week of December. Last year, IIRC, you'd have done best that week heading for some of the resorts in NW Italy (the Dolomites were very bad too). It's still possible to have a fun holiday with horrible snow (my two grand-daughters actually spent a happy hour digging holes in ghastly compacted man-made snow with biros and dropping little bits of grass and leaves in to make "birds' nests") but that's not really what you're after, is it?
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| pam w wrote: |
| ... ... That really was exceptionally bad but there is no conceivably reason to book accommodation now for the second week of December. ... ghastly compacted man-made snow ... {is} not really what you're after, is it? |
Exactly. And if you did want poor snow, you'd still be better waiting to see where the stuff falls. The thing is that there's always space if you can be bothered to look, so your best bet is to wait and see.
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Last season was a bit ropey in North America - lots of people from the US went north or south for better conditions. Whistler was a wash-out, for me anyway. But then I'm jaded: I want more than a bigger version of Hemel Hempstead. Most visitors probably have a great time when there's none of that awkward fresh snow to get in the way of their fun.... it's all a question of perspective.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Most visitors probably have a great time when there's none of that awkward fresh snow to get in the way of their fun...
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 not in much of the Alps last year, they didn't. With only a handful of runs open with ancient, compacted, manmade snow, therefore very crowded, it was truly grim. I didn't bother to go skiing and my keen daughter and SiL only went once. My niece and her husband and son were in St Anton, which was also ghastly - few runs open, icy and rocky. They drank and ate a lot though, so did enjoy their holiday in a bargain basement chalet with an excellent host. We enjoyed our Christmas, too - but it wasn't a ski holiday, not really. I drove daughter and family back to Geneva airport - a journey frustratingly prolonged by very heavy snow.....  Had been well forecast though, so we allowed for it.
It was the worst year for early snow, by miles, that I've known, in every year since 2002.
July 2015 and the year to date have been the warmest ever recorded for the globe http://www.noaa.gov/
Have to hope it cools a little before Christmas..... 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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not in much of the Alps last year, they didn't. With only a handful of runs open with ancient, compacted, manmade snow, therefore very crowded, it was truly grim. I didn't bother to go skiing and my keen daughter and SiL only went once.
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Maybe there was not much at your end of the Alps, but in Austria all of the Sport amadé was open and I skied with with rumdiary and his family the whole of Christmas week without too many problems. The lower runs were closed but only to protect the bases until mid week when it started snowing and did not stop. I also skied Schladming, Obertauern and a couple of other resorts the following week!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I skied in Val Thorens 6-13 December last year, when most resorts (including the one I was based in, Meribel) were still green. It was a bit of pain to commute by road to the pistes each day, but other than that inconvenience we had a very good week. Conditions about 2400m were generally excellent, with great piste conditions all week and even fresh boot-deep powder to play with mid-week. Under any circumstances those conditions would have been good at that time of year, but given how poor a start it was to the season we had an amazing time. As I said earlier, if you do go early season you improve your chances of decent snow, especially in a poor start to the season, if you have access to high terrain in whatever country you choose.
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In the past ten years I've skied in Avioraz,Flaine, Alpe d'Huez, Cervinia and Three Valleys in mid December and had a great time.
I go for a four day trip in mid December most years and last year is the first time where we struggled for snow. We ended up in Cervinia which was a 2 1/2 hour drive from Geneva but we had a great few days on the snow. Pistes were great but off piste was non existent.
This year we have booked flights to Geneva on December 13th and won't book accommodation until a few days before.
Looking at planned opening times all of the Three Valleys are due to open in the 12th or before and Tignes/ Val d'Isere should be great by then too.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Samerberg Sue, there were a good few reports of poor snow in Austria, too, but it was clearly patchy - some places had better snow than others. It's wise to wait before booking for that time of year.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Sella Ronda would be a good Bet in my opinion fgor easrtly season skiing. They are usually very reliable at opening when they say they will. Best snowmaking in the world and far enough east to be cold and dry enough in mid December to make snow. First day looks like being 4th December but worth checking that !
The medium altitude and tree sheltered slopes Will protect you from high wind closures, poor visibility and short days at that time of year. Grassy slopes means a quick start to their season.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Peter S wrote: |
Sella Ronda would be a good Bet in my opinion fgor easrtly season skiing. They are usually very reliable at opening when they say they will. Best snowmaking in the world and far enough east to be cold and dry enough in mid December to make snow. First day looks like being 4th December but worth checking that !
The medium altitude and tree sheltered slopes Will protect you from high wind closures, poor visibility and short days at that time of year. Grassy slopes means a quick start to their season. |
Just out of curiosity, how has it been the last two winters mid december?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think last year was pretty poor, early season, in the Dolomites, whereas the NW areas of Italy had some of the best snow going.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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They do have good snowmaking but that's no help when it's warm.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@pam w, you may well have read lots of reports, but as usual fact and fiction were unequally mixed to provide good headlines! And the Tour Operators made good use of the "panic" to sell off places where the snow had arrived (i.e. in parts of Italy for a change). The hotel I was staying in was fully booked at the beginning of December, but the inaccurate newspaper reports in Germany, the Netherlands, etc., created a panic among the one-week a year people and in the end there were actually only 3 rooms of the 25 available occupied. I must say I quite enjoyed the empty pistes, but my friends who work in the industry were worried about their short earning season for their income!
The investment in the snow-making infrastructure in most mainstream Austrian resorts means that as soon as the frosts start they start making snow and keep making it to ensure good cover up to March 15th. The off-piste meccas were poorly served because the frosts did not succeed in freezing the ground prior to the snow that eventually fell in abundance. However, the piste-served areas were all skiable due to the excellent preparation and the snow-making facilities. It was hard and icy in places, I hate skiing on artificial snow but I was skiing and travelling between resorts on skis! Some runs were kept closed until they were needed, but more than 75% of the lifts were open in places like Ski amadé, Saalbach-Hinterglemm, Ski Welt, Wildschonau, Zillertal, Stubaital, Ötztal, etc. St Anton was not quite as open but the links to Lech were, as were the links into Bregenzerwald. I was even invited to ski at our local area by friends - maximum height a mere 1563m above sea level at its highest. They were celebrating the opening of their new 6-seater chairlift with heated seats! But I was already committed to skiing with rumdiary and his children and could not go.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It just seems to me that Italy is the most unpredictable & therefore to be avoided early
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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The following quotes are all from snowheads, last December. It's simply misleading to suggest that snowmaking can guarantee open pistes.
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| I was in Scheffau Skiwelt Friday 19, really ICY and not much to ski on |
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A few months ago 6 of us booked a week in Lech with Ski Total, departing this coming Sunday 7th Dec. Never been with this company before (haven't been with any TO for years).
There's no snow in resort, the lift company have stated they won't be opening as planned on 5th Dec.
As contingency, we booked a car and planned a daily commute to Ischgl or other 'nearby' resort, about an hour each way but better than hill walking. But today, received an unexpected call from Ski Total offering to move us to Ischgl. |
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| They have done a good job so far with very very limited opportunity i am hoping the few cm's predicted and low temps will give them a chance to get some more runs and lifts open. (ref Saalbach) |
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| Ischgl as said above is worth a look but only 32/65 pistes open currently |
My niece was in St Anton at christmas and there were very few pistes open, and those were pretty icy and rocky.
No country is immune to snow problems at any time of year, but early season is particularly unpredictable (much less predictable than late season - lots of people give up skiing after early March when there is usually still plenty of snow in many areas. Fortunately it's never necessary to book in advance for early season. You can afford to wait and see.
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I'm sure @Samerberg Sue, will be telling us there is knee deep powder in every Austrian resort to valley floor all Summer notwithstanding 38degree temps. As always take the propoganda with a grain of salt
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@peanuthead, Oh go play with yourself you silly wee man, it's probably the only pleasure you'll ever get, you sour old git!
All I'm saying is that things were not as bad as they were painted in the eastern Alps. Plus, instead of pocketing their profits and buggering off to the south of France to live the high life, the money taken by the Austrian and Swiss ski lift companies is in part re-invested in the infrastructure so that people come back, year on year! Taking the long view is sometimes a much better investment and shows more return than the smash and grab attitude many of the outsiders from the flat lands (i.e. non-Savoyarde or Alpine Departement folks).
pam_w I didn't say it was perfect, I said it was hard and icy! Take the bloody blinkers off now and again and you may actually see I did not say it was a perfect start. It was very hard and icy and I don't like it, the natural snow was slow in coming BUT the colder temperatures in the east meant that the investment in snow-making saved a lot of resorts. Dec 5th is hardly the start of the main season by the way. It is a good point to aim for, but the Christmas (Advent season) in our part of the world usually starts more around the 12/13th December. By the Christmas week (i.e. starting Saturday 19th December) we were skiing from resort to resort in my preferred area, albeit on hard, icy artificial snow!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Obertauern was 90% open week commencing 14 Dec 2014. Snow fell the previous weekend on top of the snowmaking
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FAQ
