Poster: A snowHead
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We have come up with a set of ski fitness tests that you can do by yourself to help you gauge your progress when working towards improving fitness levels. These tests aren't comprehensive but should give you a general indication of how you are doing. You can log your test data on our website and once we get a decent amount of data will publish average figures. We will never publish your name or use your email for any purpose other than confirming with you the data you entered.
Never too soon to start working on your fitness for skiing. Have fun!
Basic Ski Fitness Test (Aimed at Recreational Skiers and L1/2 Instructor candidates)
Extended Fitness Test (Aimed at those considering advanced instructor exams and race training)
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 29-05-15 14:59; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Love this, the amount of fat unfit skiers I see is unbelievable, they blame a lot of the poor technique down to equipment etc, when 99% is down to lack of fitness level
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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99%? 99.9% More like! Especially in my case....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hi all, after discussing these tests with a few other coaches and trainers I have decided to do two versions of tests. A quicker basic test and an a extended version. Haven't yet finalised all the tests for the extended version but am open to comments. The extended version is aimed more at those training for higher level instructor exams or racing.
Basic Ski Fitness Tests
record year of birth and gender
Front Plank
Vertical Jump
Right Side Plank
Broad Jump
Box Jump overs (small 25cm box) in 1 minute
1.5 Mile Run
Extended Ski Fitness Tests
Record height, weight, year of birth and gender
Front Plank
Vertical Jump
Right Side Plank
Broad Jump
Pull Ups
Dips
Press Ups
? Single leg squats each leg
? Illinois test for agility
? Lateral Box Jumps onto 40cm box in 1 minute (instead of jump overs)
1.5 Mile Run
? Hamstring Flexibilty test
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Rather think you might end up with some self selection bias in your data set.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 27-05-15 10:25; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Not clear what you mean Dave... Will try to ensure that the test procedures clearly state that form is more important than time or number of reps. Or are you saying that people will only enter data on tests they do "well" on ?
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There's an awful lot of skiers who couldn't or wouldn't inflict a 1.5 mile run on middle-aged knee joints.
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The latter.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Don't run so won't be taking part. Biking, cross trainer, bit of gym work and stretches for me. Lost a stone since I got back at the end of the season already :-O
Tend to disagree on the fitness/technique argument. I would bet on an unfit skier with good technique against a fit one with poor technique any day Obviously moving to a higher level is a different matter.
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Dogwatch, each of the tests are optional at the moment and the run is last so can be skipped. I am thinking of making all but the box jumps and run mandatory for data entry though...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, thanks, yeah I agree and am thinking of making all but the plyo and cardio tests mandatory and done in sequence to avoid this..
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Claude B, do all but the run and jumping then .. in terms of technique i was referring to the technique of doing the actual tests not skiing technique.
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Maybe extend the "Skiing Level" list a bit, there may be one or two people above "Early Expert" who are not instructors.
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You know it makes sense.
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@rjs, good spot will do... What do you think on the selection of tests. I used procedures from Canada, USA and UK team selections and toned down some of the criteria for non FIS athletes.
would like to open this up to race clubs and can do specific data entry pages for anyone. Have a few interested already.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@skimottaret, perhaps Was referring to winterfunmans comments rather than yours.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Claude B,
Agree to an extent. Poor technique will always hold you back.
BUT if I am unfit, my skiing goes to pot. I know what I am supposed to do, I just can't do it. Under these circumstances, I'm scared to go off-piste or steep/icy, not because I don't know how to, (or indeed haven't done it before) but when I'm out of shape, the body just won't do it
(which leads inevitably to the vicious cycle of tense muscles, worse technique, further errors, more scared, more tense...)
This winter was great case in point - I did get fit, but not fit enough. An 8 day trip which ended with 4 days of powder meant I was knackered by the final day ( I refute any implication that late night boozing played a part in that tiredness...) and the legs just couldn't cope any more. Pitches I'd been skiing all week were scary, as I couldn't trust the bod to do what it was supposed to. I'm almost ashamed to admit it, but I couldn't enjoy the final session anywhere near as musch as I know I should have.
Obviously getting older every year doesn't help, but it certainly brought home the need to prepare properly. And as a result I've been putting in a lot of late night drinking practice. (Gym work will start in the summer).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Arctic Roll wrote: |
This winter was great case in point - I did get fit, but not fit enough. An 8 day trip which ended with 4 days of powder meant I was knackered by the final day ( I refute any implication that late night boozing played a part in that tiredness...) and the legs just couldn't cope any more. Pitches I'd been skiing all week were scary, as I couldn't trust the bod to do what it was supposed to. I'm almost ashamed to admit it, but I couldn't enjoy the final session anywhere near as musch as I know I should have.
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Fit is not ski fit although I suspect skimottaret's efforts may go someway to addressing that balance. 'Merkins, many of whom who ski hard are workout obsessed, would look at you as if you were insane for doing 8 days back to back skiing. So unless you'd already clocked 20-30 days previously that season then, especially factoring in booze, you might expect to be in pretty poor shape by the end.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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This thread is making me feel tired and guilty.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Remember fitness is specific to the sport your are doing - a marathon runner might have a poor 100m time (for example). I know from experience that i can be "fit" (say able to run 10km in 40mins). However the first day of the ski season will still hurt because my leg strength is poor from a summer off skis.
Skiing fitness is primarily about leg and core strength. So the exercises above would all help develop this.
Pro world cup skiers spend most of their training time in the gym developing raw leg and core strength (skiing is an explosive action that happens over 1-2 minute bursts).
In an ideal world I would spend more time in the gym to keep my legs strong. However I have to acknowledge that my time is limited (full time job / 1 year old child to look after!) plus I do other sports apart from skiing. Therefore I would much rather use the limited time I have to develop cardio fitness by running or cycling. However neither of these really develop strength (just endurance).
dogwatch wrote: |
There's an awful lot of skiers who couldn't or wouldn't inflict a 1.5 mile run on middle-aged knee joints. |
Fallacy. Dynamic sports like running help promote stability in the knee. If you don't ever do any dynamic sports (like running / squats) then you will inevitably have weak knees as a result of never using them? Which then of course means you avoid those exercises you don't like (we are all guilty of it!). What makes your knee strong is training the small pro-receptors to fire quickly and hold the knee together.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 27-05-15 11:45; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Hurtle, well don't. The basic test is all cardio and strength, which I'm rubbish at. But when I was at a hotel which was hosting a ski tuition week (not Inside Out), the participants were doing balance and flexibility exercises in the evenings. They were rubbish! We all have our strengths and weaknesses. Your strength might be ski technique. I "keep fit" by doing dancing and yoga as I think life's too short to spend it doing gym work I hate. I'm not aiming for the TT or racing so I don't care. But all credit to those who want to do it. I guess they'd be mostly blokes though.
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^ nail on head.
the general fitness most people do (swimming, cycling, 5 aside football, tennis, running etc) might keep them in shape - BUT it isn't ideal for developing specific fitness (i.e leg strength) for skiing.
arguably the best way to get fit for skiing is to ski lots ?
however if you live in UK and holiday once or twice a year that is easier said than done.
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@maggi, We do offer functional core stability checking range of movement, symmetry, joint stability, strength and balance focussing on the ankles, knees, core and lower back but this is difficult to self test and our resident Physiotherapist does the evaluation http://www.insideoutskiing.com/uk/rtsoffhill.html#2
I agree that flexibility, agility and proprioception are also very important areas to work on but difficult to self test. Let me think about this and see if I can add some basic tests. I wouldn't say our test programme is just strenght and cardio, it also tests endurance and power.
One simple balance test I was thinking of adding is http://www.topendsports.com/testing/tests/balance-stork.htm but to be honest not to sure if this on its own is that relevant for ski fitness. We use a Y Balance test in our full testing and this is very useful.
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Quote: |
dogwatch wrote:
There's an awful lot of skiers who couldn't or wouldn't inflict a 1.5 mile run on middle-aged knee joints.
Fallacy. Dynamic sports like running help promote stability in the knee.
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I suspect that this is a slight misunderstanding. Dogwatch may not have been talking about stability in the knee but joint pain caused by osteoarthritis. It is the degreneration of the bearing surface between the joints that causes the pain, not the "small pro-receptors". There is no evidence that running reduces the occurance of osteoarthritis.
@maggi, I would much rather work out in the gym than yoga or dancing, life is too short to do any of those activities
Bearing in mind the lengthy discussions on the wearing of helmets on these pages I am amazed that basic fitness doesn't get the attention it deserves. According to http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3200188 there are twice as many deaths in skiing from cardiovascular reasons than trauma (hypothermia is almost as significant as trauma).
We must all get fitter
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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^ his post didn't mention osteoarthritis.
yes : there, as you say, certain reasons (usually injury related) why some people shouldn't run.
however it is common fallacy that running "wears out your knees" or is generally bad for them.
In fact the opposite is true.
if you run regularly you will have stronger knees and be less to prone to ailments / injury / knee trouble.
the knee is a dynamic joint - use it or lose it.
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Claude B wrote: |
Don't run so won't be taking part. Biking, cross trainer, bit of gym work and stretches for me. Lost a stone since I got back at the end of the season already :-O
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Agree with the first part of this. I imagine there are a lot of people who bike seriously, either road or mountain, who don't run due to the impact side of things.
Imagine it's difficult to do a generic cycling fitness test though. How long to cycle up col de la madelaine?? Which for me was a horrendous near 3 hours.
Quite a few middle aged 'larger boned' that you see skiing would struggle to do 1 pull up.
It's a good idea though as I think fitness does hold a lot of people back. Went with a larger friend last year who does no real activity besides skiing and he complained of burning thighs all the time. None of the cycling group that were there had any problems. Technique is probably the most important element but if you are athletic and fit, it must enable a little compensation for poor technique.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@johnE, nah. My fitness is reasonable and my leg strength is excellent. But I have the balance of a drunk cow, skiing technique of a similar standard and no "bottle".
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@skimottaret, I wasn't criticising; simply encouraging people like @Hurtle not to feel bad. The stork test you link to is something I've seen good skiers struggle with. It's even harder with your arms up in the air and the bent-leg foot pointed!
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@maggi, constructive criticism is good, keep it coming !! More I think about it having a simple balance and hamstring/lower back flexibility test will be good additions worth the time to do..
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You know it makes sense.
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Haggis_Trap wrote: |
dogwatch wrote: |
There's an awful lot of skiers who couldn't or wouldn't inflict a 1.5 mile run on middle-aged knee joints. |
Fallacy. Dynamic sports like running help promote stability in the knee. If you don't ever do any dynamic sports (like running / squats) then you will inevitably have weak knees as a result of never using them? Which then of course means you avoid those exercises you don't like (we are all guilty of it!). What makes your knee strong is training the small pro-receptors to fire quickly and hold the knee together. |
Try telling that to my neighbour, for years a keen runner and skier, who has seriously shot knees. No more running for him and very limited skiing.
Running used to be my main aerobic training but I've switched to cycling as safer for my middle-aged body.
I'd hope yoga balance exercises are doing something for those pro-receptors.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Same here. I used to compete in Tri's and run a few half marathons each year and the occasional marathon. It wasn't one problems that stopped me running but achilles problems that 30 years or rugby and running had taken their toll on. I was advised to stop running but cycling seems to help.
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Poster: A snowHead
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emwmarine wrote: |
Quite a few middle aged 'larger boned' that you see skiing would struggle to do 1 pull up. |
Although middle aged, I'm not larger boned. I'm 5' 6" and size 8/10. Pull up my own weight? You're having a laugh .
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Reverse i know but I did find this year after 10 weeks of skiing I climbed back on my bike after 6 months off it and was up to 50 miles within 2 weeks. Helped also by living at altitude for so long.
Although I'm 56 and was at least a stone overweight (being addresses atm) I could really ski long and hard this winter. One particular day I skied 70km/11000m vert with at least an hour left if I'd wanted to do more, no I'll effects. An hour or so off piste where my technique isn't so good does me in though.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 27-05-15 12:49; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@emwmarine, there is a standard cycling fitness test - something to do with nearly killing yourself on a trainer and finding your max heart rate, I think.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The Run just measures aerobic fitness is completely optional.. One other test considered was a 500M row but requires equipment so Im not too keen on it.. I would say do whatever you like for aerobic fitness and record your progress whether it be swimming, running, cycling, etc. Comparing results with others is somewhat pointless for ski fitness but a decent level of cardio is important to get the most out of your holiday or training.
A 500m Row – Try and use a concept 2 rower, you can set the resistance at whatever level you want. It works like bike gears the higher the resistance the further you will go with each pull the lower the resistance the less distance you will travel. Big strong heavy athletes normally benefit from a higher resistance and slower more powerful strokes. If you are light and not as strong you may benefit from using a lower resistance and aiming for a higher stroke rate.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Is running bad for your knees ?
Quote: |
"The body adapts to running and gets stronger, after all. Since running doesn't involve excessive bending of the knee nor much twisting or turning, it's a very safe form of exercise for knees." Plus, high-impact exercises like running spur bone growth and strengthen the muscles around the knee, thereby taking pressure off the joint
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Runners had half the incidence of knee osteoarthritis compared to walkers.
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http://www.details.com/blogs/daily-details/2014/12/health-myth-running-is-bad-for-your-knees.html
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@Haggis_Trap, yes. Now that my knees are completely jiggered (mixture of long distance running, rugby and football).
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@Claude B, I also notice I'm fitter after a ski trip than at any other time, especially after a trip of 2 weeks or more. E.g. I took part in a few MTB XC races some years ago and by far the best result I had was at a race soon after a 3 week stint in Tignes, with very little time actually on the bike. I find the challenge is maintaining a reasonable level of ski specific fitness at home, with work and family commitments taking up time.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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^ I wonder / guess that the altitude plays a role ?
Tignes is high enough that spending 3 weeks there then returning to sea level would make a difference to performance.
balernoStu wrote: |
I find the challenge is maintaining a reasonable level of ski specific fitness at home, with work and family commitments taking up time. |
yip.
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RE ; 1.5 mile run
Arguably this is testing anaerobic rather than aerobic performance ?
Which is similar to what is required in alpine skiing (shorter explosive bursts of action).
It is not a sprint - but if going for a fast time you couldn't maintain that same pace for 30-40 minutes.
https://runneracademy.com/aerobic-vs-anaerobic/
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