 Poster: A snowHead
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OK, I know this is a fairly frivolous question, but.... When choosing a resort for a week's skiing what is the minimum length of pistes that you would consider desirable?
I do appreciate that one can have a fab time in a small ski area and a lousy time in a big ski area, and I also understand that skiiable distance is just one factor to consider.
Personally, I reckon that I ski over about half of a La Plagne area in a week or about 1/4 of 3V, so my personal vote would be for no less than about 100km and preferably more.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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On a good day I cover 40km or thereabouts (according to Skiline). That might not be 40km of different pistes, after all there are several ways down the same run, and conditions can vary throughout the day which adds to the variety factor.
I have found in recent years that I really enjoy access to several different ski areas within a ski holiday, with the result that I ski a different area each day. Ski Amadé and Salzburg Superpass area is perfect for this, there are over 20 ski areas (I hesitate to call them 'resorts') on one pass and all are easily accessible by road without perilous icy mountain roads. Most are no more than 10-20 minutes drive if you are based in a central area. Some of the ski areas have over 150km of linked pistes, some less than 20km, but daily choice of area can be based on anything from snow/weather conditions (i.e. tree cover for heavy snowfall days) to visiting a favourite hut, or trying out a completely new area.
Also quality over quantity is equally important. 50km of varied pistes is way more fun than 200km of identical motorway pistes.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Clue the battle of the stats, with vertical, speed and distance records. Also the "I never ski the same resort/piste twice" people, and I almost forgot the resorts creative accounting when tallying their piste lengths.
Personally, I'll take quality over quantity, but then again as an off piste skier, pistes are generally only used to get to and from the skiing 
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I don't typically go on ski holidays.
If I did, something like Monterosa is probably lower limit.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I ski at about 367.2km/h average and that includes 3 coffee breaks. Its not a case of whist resort do I need to keep me going, its which continent
I guess it depends how fast you ski, whether you like to ski the same run twice, what time of year, how crowded it is, and indeed how the scenery is - I mean if there is an amazing mountain range or a group of ladies doing race training in their lycra, I'm more than happy to spend the week on the same slope.
If I see admin in lycra however, id be looking at a considerably larger resort with a good bar to try to remove that image! 
Seriously though, I'd sooner chose quality of run, low crowds, good scenery, considerate skiers and the odd decent (and cheap!) bar over a mega resort any day.
Personally I prefer Alleghe to Tignes, but then I love Italy - Alleghe isn't big, id got round it twice in a day, but was more than happy to do so. Also nice to have other local resorts for a potter out (which we did!!)
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@foxtrotzulu, it's an open question really isn't.
One of my best days out recently was yo-yo-ing a single chair in Morzine with a great bunch of long time ski buddies in thigh deep powder. One run, many lines and no-one around to spoil it.
Difficult to not like the Inferno where you basically do one long descent, top to boottom. In lycra. On DH skis. At the mercy of conditions.
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@under a new name, it's a very open question and perhaps I should have phrased it as 'how happy are you skiing the same run again and again?'
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@foxtrotzulu, doesn't close in much does it?
I've done umm, 14 Infernos, and that involves much skiing of effectively the same run.
I've skied Chamonix, Samoens, Avoriaz, Champoluc and Morzine home runs more often than I could recall or count and it's never a chore.
But it's always nice to go some where new.
I don't get this requirement some folks have to always go somewhere different. I don't think you get the best out of an area without knowing it, in many conditions, or taking a guide.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| 'how happy are you skiing the same run again and again?' |
Depends on condition.
If it's fresh powder, or even fresh corduroy undisturbed by other skis besides my own, easily 3-5 times back to back. Perhaps up to 10 times if it has "character" (banked turns, change of pitch etc)
Icy motorway with millions of out-of-control skiers? Once is too many.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| @under a new name, it's a very open question and perhaps I should have phrased it as 'how happy are you skiing the same run again and again?' |
A much more interesting question. For me it depends on what I'm doing on that one (or just a few) piste(s). If I'm not really focused on doing anything, just sort of bumbling along, then one piste gets tedious very quickly. But if I have a focus (e.g. skiing as fast as I can, skiing as well as I can, training myself, teaching others, be trained by someone) then lapping around the same piste can be extremely enjoyable. It's just a focus on pure skiing, not concerned with scenery, mileage, friends, or any of the other brilliant aspects of ski holidays. Just skiing. I like that.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@rob@rar, +1
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
I'd sooner chose quality of run, low crowds, good scenery, considerate skiers and the odd decent (and cheap!) bar over a mega resort any day.
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+1 Low crowds and good scenery are probably my top criteria. I am more and more intolerant of crowds and queues. Variety of runs is important but not sheer mileage.
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"How many km's of piste do you need?"
How long is a piece of string? I mean, seriously, how long is it?
A km of piste in resort A may not be worth the same in resort B. And even in the same resort, a km of straight piste may not be worth the same km as another one that twist and turns.
| queen bodecia wrote: |
| Also quality over quantity is equally important. 50km of varied pistes is way more fun than 200km of identical motorway pistes. |
This! ^^^
That's without even getting into the other aspect of crowds, views, queues etc.
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You know it makes sense.
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Depends. Japan, powder, trees...not much.
In the Alps, it's nice to be somewhere where there are options if the weather is mixed and I love the sense of travel. Also depends on how long the ski trip is. So Courmayeur is great for a couple days, but in the absence of fresh snow, I'd get a bit bored...although the option of excellent lunches kind of mitigates the problem. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Some areas have a lot of runs in the same bowl or the same side of a mountain - the three valleys for example. Other large areas are far more spread out like the Dolomites. I think people have rightly said that crowds are the biggest hurdle for getting a lot of skiing in. If pistes are busy you have to ski quite slowly and then often end up queuing for uplift so you don't get to travel much. Whistler is a great place to rack up the Km as it has a European size vertical and acreage coupled with a North American super efficient lift system.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Pretty much the best skier's ski resort in the world has roughly zero (OK they might skim a cat on part of the glacier)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Whistler is also not a place I think of when I think negligible lift queues
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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need or want?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, where's at then?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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LG
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Whistler is also not a place I think of when I think negligible lift queues |
Never queued once when I was there
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| Quote: |
I ski at about 367.2km/h average and that includes 3 coffee breaks. Its not a case of whist resort do I need to keep me going, its which continent
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Jakers Paul, you must have slowed down a bit since I last skied behind you
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If I see admin in lycra however, id be looking at a considerably larger resort with a good bar to try to remove that image!
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Thanks for that Paul, you really know how to plant a gruesome image in someones mind 
If you are with the right people, there is usually interesting skiing in even the smallest of resorts
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| cameronphillips2000 wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Whistler is also not a place I think of when I think negligible lift queues |
Never queued once when I was there |
Peak chair on a pow day? Emerald mid morning? Village gondy 9.30-10.30 on a Saturday?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I like a nice sense of travel, and lots of different runs to try. Espace Killy is perfect for me, I find new runs to do every time I go, and love the familiarity of the ones I do all the time.
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Been to Whistler twice admittedly quite a few years ago now and the queues were a fair bit worse than the average European resort on my visits.
Getting back to the original question, smallest ski area I have had a week's holiday at was Bonneval which has less than 40km I think, though we took a couple of days elsewhere in the week. I really enjoyed the holiday beautiful area lots of variety within that small mileage and some really nice off piste though that was nothing what we were going for.
I don't generally go for areas with much less than 100 km I guess but quality is just way more important than quantity.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Who needs a piste ???
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| musher wrote: |
| Who needs a piste ??? |
I do.
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You know it makes sense.
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Usually aim for places with 100km or more assuming it is mostly a piste trip. As we generally like going to different places, that becomes slightly more difficult when you add in other criteria but as long as people keep adding links and lifts should be fine!
For a mostly off piste trip not quite so important!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| ...Peak chair on a pow day? Emerald mid morning? Village gondy 9.30-10.30 on a Saturday? |
Places wise people would avoid at those times. Although where they have queues, they are terribly civilized and well managed, plus they have singles lines (even the gondola, but only at the end).
On the OP... if I'm going to one place for two weeks then nothing smaller than the 3V would be sufficient. But then I'm unlikely to do that... much more likely to go somewhere and then go somewhere else once I'm bored. Consider places like Taos and Snowbird, which are tiny but which are really good. For what it's worth, those two places are actually hard for casual visitors to get the best out of: you need to know a local or it's hard to get the best from them.
The metric (km of piste) doesn't really work in North America: they do have trails, but you can safely ride between them too. Perhaps there's a clue in that.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
The metric (km of piste) doesn't really work in North America: they do have trails, but you can safely ride between them too. Perhaps there's a clue in that.
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That's not quite true.
The American west yes. In the east, it's still trails and miles of trails (or worse, the "count" of the number of trails)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| philwig wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| ...Peak chair on a pow day? Emerald mid morning? Village gondy 9.30-10.30 on a Saturday? |
Places wise people would avoid at those times. Although where they have queues, they are terribly civilized and well managed, plus they have singles lines (even the gondola, but only at the end).
On the OP... if I'm going to one place for two weeks then nothing smaller than the 3V would be sufficient. But then I'm unlikely to do that... much more likely to go somewhere and then go somewhere else once I'm bored. Consider places like Taos and Snowbird, which are tiny but which are really good. For what it's worth, those two places are actually hard for casual visitors to get the best out of: you need to know a local or it's hard to get the best from them.
The metric (km of piste) doesn't really work in North America: they do have trails, but you can safely ride between them too. Perhaps there's a clue in that. |
If you're still in the village at 9.30 you deserve to be in a queue.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Dave of the Marmottes, I'd suggest it was actually CMH Galena. No lifts at all...
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Having this dilemma choosing where to go next season: ignoring other factors (such as transfer, height, likelihood of snow, etc.) its between Les Contamines (120km) for £750 or Les Arcs (200km) for £900.
Trying to keep costs down, but is there "enough" to do in the smaller resort to justify the lesser expense...?
Also the group will be having lessons, which will reduce the daily average, I reckon...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Again for me, quality over quantity. Even back doing ski holidays.
I went to Westendorf on family ski holidays 6 times during my teenage years, and I think in all those weeks we bothered to go to Kitz once and the rest of the SkiWelt 2 or 3 days max. Most of the time we'd just lap 3 (long, top to bottom) pistes all day, exploring some of the ski routes and offpiste diversions on later trips.
Honestly, the 111, KiWest piste and the red top to bottom (110?) in Westendorf are probably my favourite pistes in the Alps. The piste form Schindlergrat to Alpe Rauz in the Arlberg is also great though.
I do get and enjoy the feeling of travel you get in the Dolomites and places like PdS, but I also get frustrated when you find a great piste but the rest of the group want to carry on forward on their itinerary to wherever they've decided to to get to. I'd rather carry on exploring the better piste, finding the best flow through the sections bumps and jumps.
I do think standard of skier comes into play with this sort of question. As you get better and can work the ski better, it becomes more about the sensations you feel/can achieve; a newer skier probably gets less enjoyment that way, so needs more of a sense of exploration/travel to really have fun.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| I do think standard of skier comes into play with this sort of question. As you get better and can work the ski better, it becomes more about the sensations you feel/can achieve; a newer skier probably gets less enjoyment that way, so needs more of a sense of exploration/travel to really have fun. |
Sort of agree, but I think it's not so much skier ability as skier focus at that moment in time. Any skier, regardless of ability, can focus on making the best turns they can, tuning in to the sensations and the movements they are making, playing around with different things to see if they can be better. For those times the amount of piste mileage available is not so important, and can sometimes be a distraction - when I'm teaching there will be times when I want to minimise "travel time" to maximise "development time". At other times the availability of lots of pistes or terrain will be much more important, so that sense of travelling, having a great restaurant to ski to, new terrain to challenge yourself with, clocking up different pistes while skiing with friends, etc, will be the focus. I think if you just focus on one or the other aspect all the time you're missing out on some of the great things that skiing has to offer.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It's a holiday. It's not just about maximising the time of skis on snow.
So a reasonable amount of piste distance is nice to have, and my wish to explore is because I'm on holiday and want to explore, and not because of my skill level. Find new pistes, find new hills, find new places to have lunch. Every piste and every turn is an opportunity to hone skills, or to play, when free skiing between formal lessons/coaching.
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FAQ
- give it 18months and my lad will be over taking me and it'll be time to retire all together (that or ill take up boarding so I have a reason for being slow 
for boring up to 
? The simple and correct answer is 100km.
