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Ski Club Great Britain pulls its leader training course from Tignes......

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
After many years of running the annual training course for new leaders in Tignes, due to the ongoing spat with the ESF in France the course will now run in Zermatt.........

http://www.planetski.eu/news/6974
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Will Phil Smith and colleagues travel to Zermatt to deliver the course, or will somebody else do it?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Don't know Rob, I'm out of the loop now I'm retired, you looking for some extra business? Very Happy
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I would have thought it'd be worth the trip for Smiffy
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@KenX, not looking for that particular gig! My guess is that Phil will head to Zermatt for a couple (?) of weeks to deliver the course as before, so I'm assuming this is a political statement from the Ski Club to take their business from France to Switzerland?
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@rob@rar, I reckon for 2 weeks it'd be worth the travelling for him and yes, I'm sure it's a poke in the eye to Laughing
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Well I'm sure the proprietor of the Levanna will be having a quiet word - 2 weeks of a nearly full hotel in the first weeks of December will make a large dent in their margin. This can't come to soon - ESF is only a small part of the billion euro businesses that are the large French ski resorts. As soon as the rest of the business owners realise this the better and become vocal - but I suspect as they all have brothers, sisters, uncles etc in ESF that have been too muted for far too long. It doesn't help in Tignes that the Mayor and one of his deputies are head of ESF in Val Claret and Le Lac respectively.
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@chocksaway, I guess the Levanna will be desperate for a big booking in early Dec. I can't think of an organisation which has a strong track record of organising 100+ skiiers in early Dec in Tignes and might be interested in booking a hotel which just became remarkably empty Very Happy

All this does mean that the pistes and particularly the lifts will be a bit quieter during those weeks, after seeing candidates crashing into other skiiers in an open area some distance from the piste, and being stuck on a lift with others braying about the relative wealth and skiing ability (or otherwise) of their friends and family, I can't say we'll miss them next season, even if Tignes will.
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^ I'm hesitant to raise Simon Butler again, but French business owners in Megève have (for example) taken to the local airwaves in his support. Obviously, it's not had much impact, but proves we should be careful using blanket terms like 'the French'.
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A 5-minute video about the SCGB training course, released by the Skeeb in the past few days ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=76&v=0EJXMMRbiiE

Jonny Cassidy, Programme Manager: "Nigel Shepherd is the Alpine Safety Advisor for the Ski Club of Great Britain ... and he is the Course Director ... We've also got some other well experienced mountain guides: Kathy Murphy, Graham MacMahon and Roland Steiger ..."
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@David Goldsmith, haha. I see our 'leader' adopted a cunning disguise for the video. I wonder how old that video is: somebody I know, who I think hasn't led for a while, is on it.
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"It will take place 29th November - 12th December 2015 and costs £2,899. This includes half board accomodation in the 4* Best Western Alpen Resort Hotel on a twin share basis. "

Nearly 3 grand to share a room. Strewth.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
And the French argument is that the SC leaders are receiving remuneration, not if you factor the course in, plus ongoing training, first-aid courses every 3 years....
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Hmm 3k investment for a lifetime of free jollys might not be the payback calculation it once was if lifetime is the lifetime of the skeeb's leader programme.

..and cue DG for an endless pontification on how long that might be.....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
£223 per person per day for HB, lift pass and training is very good value IMHO
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Poster: A snowHead
Mike Pow wrote:
£223 per person per day for HB, lift pass and training is very good value IMHO
I wouldn't say very good value for money, but not outside the realm of credibility for a nice hotel in Zermatt.

Assuming that the lift pass and the course fee is included in that price...?
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@hurtle ... It was from the season just gone ...maybe your friend was "refreshing" ! Why isnt anyone wearing an SCGB blue jacket ??
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
rob@rar wrote:
Mike Pow wrote:
£223 per person per day for HB, lift pass and training is very good value IMHO
I wouldn't say very good value for money, but not outside the realm of credibility for a nice hotel in Zermatt.

Assuming that the lift pass and the course fee is included in that price...?


£2899 / 13 days on snow = £223

An average place would cost approx. £100 per day HB, then a lift pass of £30 per day.

So approx. £95 per day for instruction and training = very good value to me.
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Mike Pow wrote:
So approx. £95 per day for instruction and training = very good value to me.
I need to put my prices up Laughing
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Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Hmm 3k investment for a lifetime of free jollys might not be the payback calculation it once was if lifetime is the lifetime of the skeeb's leader programme.

..and cue DG for an endless pontification on how long that might be.....


I'm more likely to pontificate right now on 'how come further recruitment is taking place' when the situation in France has essentially gone into limbo?

Last winter, in response to the prosecution of the SCGB rep in Val, all SCGB reps ('leaders') were given 'ambassador' status, as a temporary measure. As I understand it, the SCGB was therefore funding (at a cost of c. £100k or more, I should think) the posting of 'ambassadors' in French resorts to do little more than hold an assembly at 9am and advise people on where to go skiing.

It then emerged that SCGB members, requiring something comparable to what they were used to, were being given local 'seasonaires' to ski with ...

http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/membersonly/snowtalk/discussion.aspx/Skiing-And-Snowboarding-general?discussionID=15146#.VVSPATY4nTY

Whether this arrangement was officially sanctioned is not clear, but it seemed to continue without intervention. On the surface, this seems a very ambiguous arrangement, possibly putting the Skeeb into a new and unknown risk/liability situation should anything go wrong (e.g. a seasonaire giving dangerous guidance about where to ski).

The fact that fresh recruitment and training is to take place in Zermatt suggests that the 'ambassador' scheme will continue in France, though I'm not aware of official word to that effect.

[/end of pontification]
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The seasonnaires thing is interesting ( I'd not heard of it before) but clearly a very thin technical separation . I assume the seasonnaires chosen are not the usual baggy trousered stoners but trusted SCGB members and the insistence that non members join to ski with the seasonnaire rather gives the game away.
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A friend of mine used to rep for the scgb, not much of a jolly from what I saw. Skiing with goodness knows who for six days a week and in the bar after answering endless daft questions. The only good bit as far as I could see was tagging along foc on organised guided days, and repping on the fresh tracks holidays. I wouldn't do it for £500 a week.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

It then emerged that SCGB members, requiring something comparable to what they were used to, were being given local 'seasonaires' to ski with ...

http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/membersonly/snowtalk/discussion.aspx/Skiing-And-Snowboarding-general?discussionID=15146#.VVSPATY4nTY

That makes for eyebrow lifting reading. I can't imagine there's a judge in the entire world who wouldn't see it as contempt. Just thinking up a way of dodging around the law after having been prosecuted like that is asking for trouble, especially if someone gets killed or injured. Seasonnaires leading punters? What could possibly go wrong? And there's no way those guys are insured for public liability. Pierres les corbeaux.
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@jbob,
Quote:

repping on the fresh tracks holidays
From my experience - of a very nice rep trying to hold together a large number (too large, there should have been two of them) of disparate punters, most of whom were old and grumpy - that could be less than fun as well.
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jbob wrote:
A friend of mine used to rep for the scgb, not much of a jolly from what I saw. Skiing with goodness knows who for six days a week and in the bar after answering endless daft questions. The only good bit as far as I could see was tagging along foc on organised guided days, and repping on the fresh tracks holidays. I wouldn't do it for £500 a week.


I've got to agree with you there although I've enjoyed "social skiing" with punters in the distant past I wouldn't have paid 3 grand to go on a course to do it. I did it for a TO for a season and we got a couple of days with the same folks the ski club used at the time. It was really the usual common sense about not "leading" the group, where to stop, where to arrange to meet if the group got split up etc. IMHO the ski club course is not enough if you are going off piste, not by a long way and far too much for a bit of social skiing.

But there are only so many weeks in a season and only so many seasons in a ski career so while spoil it skiing with people not of your choosing? The only exception I've made over the last couple of years is skiing/leading school groups... but that's just me and Kylie doing it for the kids.
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Quote:

old and grumpy

I believe thats SCGBs core demographic these days.
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Richard_Sideways wrote:
Quote:

old and grumpy

I believe thats SCGBs core demographic these days.


Also sHs in the summer wink
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@Dave of the Marmottes, just in the summer? wink
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You know it makes sense.
Richard_Sideways wrote:
Quote:

old and grumpy

I believe thats SCGBs core demographic these days.


It's skiing's core demographic.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
dogwatch wrote:
Richard_Sideways wrote:
Quote:

old and grumpy

I believe thats SCGBs core demographic these days.


It's skiing's core demographic.


It's England's core demographic...judging by the election results. Laughing
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Er, it's a minor demographic, judging by the wailing and gnashing of teeth of the losers. wink
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Er, well yes, 25% of the electorate would be minor, but quite hardcore wink
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
David Goldsmith wrote:


It then emerged that SCGB members, requiring something comparable to what they were used to, were being given local 'seasonaires' to ski with ...

http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/membersonly/snowtalk/discussion.aspx/Skiing-And-Snowboarding-general?discussionID=15146#.VVSPATY4nTY

Whether this arrangement was officially sanctioned is not clear, but it seemed to continue without intervention. On the surface, this seems a very ambiguous arrangement, possibly putting the Skeeb into a new and unknown risk/liability situation should anything go wrong (e.g. a seasonaire giving dangerous guidance about where to ski).


Wow this looks like a disaster waiting to happen.
What seasonaires are doing this, they must be mad, given the setup they could surely be arrested and the idea that that they are in effect an off piste guide is even more worrying.
The fact that SCGB are saying non members can only ski with these seaonaires once or they need to join the SCGB shows exactly how the relationship is even if they are "unpaid".
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someone to backmark & ensure whole group has all safety kit & knows how to use it (perhaps the Ambassador).

Showing people how to use safety kit? Isn't this teaching?
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@stewart woodward, I guess they can have gear and check if others know how to use it without teaching them if they don't know, but still a recipe for epic fail imo. The court would go potty if they saw that kind of thing going on after previous ruling.
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@stewart woodward, I guess they can have gear and check if others know how to use it without teaching them if they don't know, but still a recipe for epic fail imo. The court would go potty if they saw that kind of thing going on after previous ruling.
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betterinblack wrote:
The fact that SCGB are saying non members can only ski with these seaonaires once or they need to join the SCGB shows exactly how the relationship is even if they are "unpaid".

Nail on head.
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maggi wrote:
betterinblack wrote:
The fact that SCGB are saying non members can only ski with these seaonaires once or they need to join the SCGB shows exactly how the relationship is even if they are "unpaid".

Nail on head.


The SCGB does not say this.

The link is a conversation between members saying what the members are doing as there is no leading service.
Much the same as if you went skiing with your mates and the one who knows the place goes at the front

The SCGB .. " providing seasonairres " ?
rolling eyes ....please !
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From DG's link
Quote:
Also we conform to the norm of one free day with seasonaires then a non member is expected to join the Club


Quote:
Much the same as if you went skiing with your mates and the one who knows the place goes at the front


limegreen, no, it's not. You don't generally ask your mates to pay money to ski with you more than once! Laughing
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