 Poster: A snowHead
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This season was no difference to usual, I start watching snow reports in November & do my snow dances. I have been too successful with good snow for Val D in December. After that things got out of hand; Arabba had unusually high snowfall (very little the other side of the Brenner pass) for my mid Jan trip & it didn’t stop snowing after I left and the birthday bashers got legacy of my snow dance. Our trip to Jackson was greeted with almost continuous snow & continued after I left. Too much of a good thing ? I need to tone down my dance as I do like to ski under a blue sky. Maybe somewhere needs to employ me as a snow magnet.
John and I, two elderly gentlemen normally make an annual ski trip to Colorado. In the past we have skied Aspen, Arapahoe Basin, Keystone, Breckenridge, Vail, Beaver Creek, Copper & Winter Park. We like the polite & friendly natives & have always had decent snow, never icy as experienced in the Alps. The downsides are: the travel, airfare, time difference, high cost of lift tickets, ski hire, accommodation & smaller ski areas.
I don’t feel the airfare is justifiable for me for trips less than 10 days and jet lag and the altitude takes some acclimatisation. . There is not enough skiing at most of the resorts for 2 weeks without it getting repetitive so we may rent a 4x4 and ski different resorts. Vail is perhaps big enough with Beaver Creek also accessible without a car. Aspen has four ski hills so a car is not required.
Americans do not get paid holidays by right; they tend to only ski 2 or 3 days at a time, often a long weekend. Pricing is geared to suit this with day lift ticket prices being high, except for small hills, $100+ per day is usual & multiple day lift tickets not readily available. If you ski for more than a few days it is often cheaper to get a season pass. The Epic, Epic Local, Rocky Mountain Super(+) Passes offer great value providing you buy months in advance and offer multiple resorts on the same pass.
To get affordable accommodation we have stayed some distance from the ski resorts, in the past at Frisco and Dillon which have several ski resorts within 30 minutes drive.
The difficulty is in getting John to commit early enough to get a pre-season pass deal & then he natters to do a transatlantic trip. So I put in a lot of interweb time to get a lift pass deal. There are a few sites out there offering discounted lift tickets, how many are kosher, I don’t know and are often linked to buying accommodation.
I fancied trying somewhere new to us. Several resorts yet to ski in Colorado like crested Butte, Steamboat, Telluride. I found affordable accommodation in Steamboat but the lift pass price is astronomical. I widened the search to Utah, New Mexico & Wyoming. After a lot of trawling I came up with a great deal for Jackson Hole. A senior lift pass for 10 out of 14 days was £281. A Hotel suite with 2 queen beds & sofa bed for 14 night £1300 with a full breakfast, airport transfers & bus to the ski hill included. Flights from Manchester to Jackson Hole weighed in at £543.
I knew Jackson Hole is predominately a hardcore resort & we are cautious but still wanted to add it to my c.v. and pretend to be gnarly.
After booking it I advertised our spare bed on Snowhead’s.
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=101561
A Snowhead called Peter replied & he seemed genuine enough and I took a chance in letting him join us and thereby save a few quid. It was a big leap of faith, probably more so on his part. He may have been an axe murderer or Cannibal for all I knew. I hoped I was not going to need to nursemaid him & I hope he could fit in with two cantankerous old men.
The Good :
The hotel “The Lodge at Jackson Hole”, locally known as “The Bears” as there are carved wooden bears climbing all over it, was great value @ £434 each when the summer daily room rate is $350 per night.
 
Our room was as advertised, 2 queen beds + a sofa beds, 50” TV, safe , fridge, microwave, coffee maker, writing desk, chest of drawers, wardrobe, good size bathroom with large wet room multiple headed shower, lots of towels changed every day along with toiletries.
The hotel provided a complimentary luxury taxi service to & from the airport & to town. A shuttle bus to the slopes, a proper breakfast with strawberries, blueberries & yoghurt along with sliced oranges, grapefruit & melons. Cereals, nuts, breads, bagels, pastries, butter, Philly cheese & jams. Heaps of crispy bacon, sausages, scrambled eggs & cried potatoes. Orange juice . Starbucks coffee, tea were available gratis all day. The breakfast table also provided enough take away to provide lunch & afternoon tea. John was like a combined harvester managing to pack away prodigious amounts into his belly & pockets.
The hotel had indoor & outdoor hot tubs & swimming pool, a sauna, bar & dinning room, ski lockers.
Jackson Hole is a historic western town in a few square miles of flat land surrounded by the Teton Mountains (hence Hole). Most of the land in the Hole is National Park or large ranches bought by the oil tycoons of the 1920-30’s, like Rockefeller, or. The small remainder of real estate small plots are very expensive in the millions of dollar range as it is voted one of the best outdoors place to live in the states.
The town was a 30 minute walk away, 5 minute ride courtesy of the hotel or free local bus service. It is like a western film set and great fun. The entrances to the park in the central square are framed with hundreds of antlers. The park has a free ice-rink.
 
Plenty of restaurants mostly selling beef, bison, elk, game & fish but also Mexican, Italian, Thai, Chinese & Sushi.
We used the Gun Barrel Restaurant adjacent to our hotel several times. The restaurant was a cross between a taxidermist shop & a museum. It served meat & game. Vegetables were few & miserable. We visited a supermarket & fresh vegetables were available but very expensive. The served a passable prime rib but not massive, the double barrel cut being only 12 oz.
 
I did not rate the local grass fed beef as good as the Alberta AAA beef but dare not voice this as they are fiercely proud of the local cattle. The local cattle is trucked to Arizona for the winter months as Wyoming has been in drought for years till I arrived with the snow. I am told the bison sirloin & elk was good. The locals went gaga when moose was seen by the road, they would have been lots more wildlife if they did not slaughter anything that moved.
Other nights we ate at a couple of restaurants, saloons and a one Mexican take away – which was difficult to order as the menu did not bear much relationship to Tex-Mex we have back home but it was good. We had beer at $5 or a bottle of wine at $25 in the restaurants or $10 from a bottle shop for the likes of Turning Leaf.
Plenty of bars, western & American.
Apres ski at Teton focuses in on the Mangy Moose which was always well patronised and you could rely on a roaring log fire, friendly intercourse with the natives and live music. The locally brewed Snake river ales were very drinkable at $6 a pint or cheaper by the pitcher (don’t ask for jugs, I’m told that’s what Dolly Parton has).
   
The Natives (no not Red Indian's, they had been wiped out with Winchesters & smallpox) were invariably polite & friendly. Everyone wanted to know where we came from & most had connections or had visited the UK. They were mostly elderly or young. As soon as I bought an appropriate hat I was greeted by the Mayor & old ladies who wanted to show me around.
The Axe Murderer, Peter turned out to be thoroughly decent. Without him I may have murdered John before the end of 2 weeks in the same room, probably justifiable homicide in Wyoming. Peters skiing was enthusiastic beyond his ability. He certainly was game. Peter didn’t bring skis, ski hire @ $50 a day would be $650 so he bought a pair of new, last season’s Volkl Kendo at half price, $330. Nice looking skis !
The Snow after a 2 week drought it snowed almost continuously for the duration of our stay laying down about 4 feet of snow. So we usually had several inches of powder under our skis. The K2 AMP’s despite looking thin compared to the locals planks always stayed on top even in the lightest snow even at low speed thanks to the rocker shape. I was happy enough with them.
The in-flight movie “Gravity” seemed apt at 35,000 feet and was enjoyable despite a weak storyline. It must be very good on the big screen, it would have been better if Sandra Bullock had not survived – sorry spoilt it for you.
Grand Targee We had 3 days not covered by our 10 day lift pass. One day we took the Gray Line trip to Grand Targee ($99 inc lift ticket) Only 4 lifts but they managed to serve the 3 faces of the hill. It was a good hill more suited to our ability with varied terrain with the ski anywhere hills and wooded valleys, with 12 inches of fresh light new even the black runs were not difficult. It was a delight despite the extremely low temperatures. The chairs were coated with an icy frost when we arrived and visibility non-existent at the summit when we arrived but sun eventually broke through. Well worth the white knuckle bus ride over the Teton Pass.
THE BAD
The weather the sun only broke through occasionally on the afternoon. The visibility was generally OK, sometimes poor especially high up and the light often flat. It was very very cold for 2 days down to 50 below (°F).
Peter took a snowmobile trip in Yellowstone Park on one of these days and was superficially scarred with frostbite to his cheeks & nose. I wore a neoprene face mask and never took my sunglasses to the mountain.
United Airlines on the way out the old plane only managed 400 mph due to a strong headwind, they usually manage to take a different arc or altitude. We would have missed our connection in New York if the crew had turned up to fly us to Denver. We made the connection for Jackson but the planes computer failed & we had to move to another plane with propellers but we had to wait for that to be fuelled. No matter, we were only 40 minutes late in Jackson & the hotel shuttle was waiting for us but the bar had already closed. On the return our flight to Denver was overbooked but I had already bagged our seats, the flight from Denver was delayed 1 hour which would be too late for the Transatlantic Flight. This would mean a 24 hour stop in New York which would be good but United don’t provide any hotel etc. so an insurance claim would be needed. Fortunately we managed to get put on an earlier flight & our baggage sought & re-directed and we made the connection. The jet stream gave us a speed of 600 mph+ so the crossing only took 5 hours which would have been good if I had not got a fixed time train ticket.
THE UGLY
The Mountain JH is a tough hill. It all faces one way and has little variety except for steepness. Has plenty of trees despite its altitude. Looking up the hill it goes from easy at the bottom right to extreme on the left side. The bottom LHS is steep, rocky & densely tree-ed, a real challenge with no bale outs. I made the mistake of missing the blue taking us down a black diamond mogul run for our first run of the trip despite have read the excellent guide & memorising the trail map, a necessity as I am near blind without my glasses. If you want a really good guide to the slopes, I recommend Bob Peters’ excellent guide: http://epicski.onthesnow.com/a/jackson-hole-guide-to-skiing-jackson-hole-mountain-resort We struggled & fell our way down (we didn’t realise it was not the blue run until 4 days later). It had not snowed for 2 weeks previously and the base was hard compact ice moguls, they had a snow storm on the day of our arrival leaving 9 inches of fluffy snow hiding the solid moguls underneath greeting each one with a jarring bump. There are some greens at the base RHS and relatively easy blues above (like Italian Reds). The double blues were like Italian Blacks when groomed otherwise worse.
We did the black from the top once a day and it was good when it was not a white out or blizzard. The notices about the severity of the skiing and the announcement as the “Tram” passes Corbett’s Couloir, “This mountain is unlike anything you have skied before for experts only. We strongly recommend taking the tram back down if you are not confident...etc” is all part of the hype, there are extreme steep & cliff drops but you can take a relatively easy route down. We got more confident doing it each day, traversing less. The run below that was sublime with great snow. There is a fair amount of skiing other than the double blacks but after several days it starts to become repetitive. On the plus side we got better at doing themore difficult stuff. But am such an age that I have passed wanting to push my limits & all in all it was beyond my comfort zone and severely tiring on legs and knees.
SUMMARY
The trip went to plan, so full marks to American Ski Classics for doing the donkey work : It would have been better to choose a better airline than United but the Hotel was brilliant for the money as was the saving on the lift pass.
The weather was extreme but at least it gave brilliant snow. I enjoyed the western experience, the beef was underwhelming, 7 days would have been enough skiing at JH .
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 22-11-20 18:14; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Wonderful report, thanks for posting. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Great report.
Love this comment ......
| Lechbob wrote: |
| Peters skiing was enthusiastic beyond his ability |
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Lechbob, brilliant report, thanks for posting. Really enjoyed reading that.
I doubt it's somewhere I will ever go, and even if I did I couldn't ski half of it! I'd be the one crawling up to Corbett's to peer over the edge and scutttling away again 
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Bones, Did the driver of the shuttle have you singing "Johnny come marching home" & threaten to drive around in circles until the volume was to his liking ? Quite a character with a great hat, I am glad he didn't make us Brits join in with "The battle of New Orleans".
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Lechbob, A very entertaining write up and enjoyable reading. I too have skied Jackson Hole and Grand Targhee, and whilst I enjoyed the experience overall I did and do look back with a little disappointment, I think this comes with the fact that the area is generally over hyped in true American style - it is marketed almost as the holy grail or Mecca of ski-ing. When we were there, the audible warnings on the "tram" where cringe worthy to the extreme about the terrain - you don't get this type of nonsense in the likes of Alagna, Andermatt or Engelberg to name a few in a similar league. Anyway, been there done that, got the t'shirt and we won't be going back. We were based there for two weeks and looking back, I think seven days is about right. We have just come back from a trip to the Dolomites exploring the lesser known side valleys away from the Sella Ronda. In my humble opinion there is no comparison in terms of scenery, terrain and also with regard to the culinary experience. I must stress this is only a personal opinion - I don't like the glorified theme park feeling I get when I ski in America. The late Doug Coombes who spent some of his earlier years based in JH later chose Chamonix as a base as has Glen Plake , hmm I wonder why? 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Bones wrote: |
| Did you meet the nice tall lass working as host at the Gun Barrel with the great smile ? |
Yes, I think she was only flirting with me to get a bigger tip 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Bones wrote: |
| Elise is a friend of a friend really, but shes off to dental school later this year. |
I suspect she will really need good tips to fund that unless her parents are wealthy but a great investment for future riches.
I made the mistake of accepting a table by the fire in the Gun Barrel, I thought it would be nice after coming in from the cold but I got roasted - it's one hell of a log fire.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Lechbob, great report. We've stayed in the Lodge twice and, like you, found it to be a great hotel for astonishingly little money. I think you were very unfortunate with the weather - typically JH has infrequent, short but very intense storms followed by extended periods of sunshine. As you discovered, that can badly affect the snow on the lower mountain - especially the Hobacks which have extensive areas with little tree cover - and the powder is often so light in JH that even 12" or more can brush effortlessly to one side and set your teeth on edge as you scrape over hard, icy moguls. The trick is to seek your powder higher up the mountain or on the north faces of the ridges - runs like Tower 3 and Toilet Bowl (not marked on the map but called that by all locals) never seem to run out of deep, soft powder.
JH is one of my favourite places to ski: the hype is massive but it's all done in a great sense of fun. This isn't a place that takes itself too seriously. It's also the home of one of my favourite skiing videos - make sure you watch it with the volume turned up because the soundtrack is truly awesome.
http://vimeo.com/21864555
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Jonny Jones, Thanks for giving your re-assuring insight into Wyoming weather, that concurs with our previous blue sky & lots of snow experiences in Colorado which is not that far south.
Peter did a recky of the Hobacks & came back, eventually, saying "he wish he hadn't done that" but then he did it again thinking he had just picked a bad slot. It took him a long time to get down, the patrollers offered to see him down safely. I struggled down a gully that had had so much snow that massive moguls disguised the rocky drops, it took a while for me to negotiate it but it was very satisfying to have done it, unfortunately it sapped my energy & I didn't have much "gas left in my tank" for the rest of the afternoon. I have been told that in poor visibility you should get the information from your feet but it takes away my confidence. You really need to see where you are going at JH as there are hazards to be avoided. When the visibility & light is good my skiing is so much better, attacking runs I had previously struggled on now seemed easy. I was surprised by the sheer numbers of people that arrived at the weekend, maybe the volume of snow brought them out but it is pretty sparsely populated thereabouts. We only did the Tram once or twice a day as despite taking 100 people every 10 minutes there was long wait early morning and thereafter 20 minutes during the week and forget it at weekend. It hardly seemed worth the wait for the howling gale on the summit & the moonscape of the Rendezvous bowl, then again, the waffles are legend in the cabin at the top. On the one calm day when I could see and didn't have to brace against the wind, the view of the Tetons was magnificent. So more often than not I would avoid the wait for the Tram or the Bridger Gondola & work my way across the mountain by a series of chairs & traverses to the Sublette chair which takes you almost to the summit and to some great runs.
I could swear I saw a sign pointing to "Toilet Bowl" off the Paintbrush run ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Bones, yes I shared a chair with someone from Tahoe who said that. I have only been to Tahoe in the summer, I have been tempted to go to ski when I have the Epic pass, I assumed that snow wouldn't be in short supply, it would have been disappointing to make the journey to find poor snow conditions.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Lechbob, Normally its good - we had 11 days out of 14 with fresh snow, and bluebird days when there. We just checked the snow report and skied the mountain with the most fresh stuff
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Lechbob, I'm surprised by the queues for the tram. We've been there over President's weekend a few times, and we've really only seen queues on weekends and even then things tend to subside by mid morning. IME it's usually been possible to catch the next tram (one runs every 10 mins so that's an average 15 minutes wait) but, by lunchtime, it's often possible to walk straight on.
A good challenge is to beat the the tram down with a view to riding up in the same car. It can be done, but you need to choose your route carefully as the groomed runs aren't always the fastest way down. Great fun!
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Jonny Jones, On our second weekend all the lifts had long queues, I'm told Grand Targhee was the same. AsBones said, probably because they had epic snow after a 2 week drought and Tahoe had poor coverage. The queue for the tram was made worse as the Sublette chair was derailed during the storm and was not fixed until mid morning. The queue for the tram snaked way beyond the railings and down to path up to the Bridger Center. The skiers/boarders must be praised for being well mannered and good humored, the multi-lane queues for the chair lifts alternated politely without needing directing, a refreshing change from the Alps. I guess it would be unfair to limit the numbers as many must have traveled a long distance to be there.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Bones,Strangley not many were using the 2 man Eagles Rest Chair or the Sweetwater tripple giving access to the Casper quad then traverse to a bit of a queue at the Thunder chair & then the crowds had thinned a bit. There was plenty of snow for all.
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| Lechbob wrote: |
| I could swear I saw a sign pointing to "Toilet Bowl" off the Paintbrush run ? |
Toilet Bowl is off the right of Paintbrush and it makes a much more entertaining way down than the main run. I can't say that I've ever noticed a sign on the mountain - perhaps it's new this season or maybe I've failed to notice the sign while I've been concentrating on not falling over. You can also get there from the Expert Chutes or Cirque provided you carry enough speed across the groomer at the bottom, which makes for a great route down from the Sublette chair: Tensleep -> Expert Chutes -> Toilet Bowl -> Amphitheatre. Back up the Thunder/Sublette chairs and rinse, repeat, enjoy.
Toilet Bowl consistently has some of the best snow on the mountain, especially if you take a high line into it. You have to be a little careful, though, as there are a few quite nasty rocky drops and the snow can get extraordinarily deep after a powder drop. My son once sank up to his waist there when he stopped to find the best way past a particularly awkwardly placed rock.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Brilliant report, and love the Tiny JH vid too.
I went to JH in 2007, conditions were rubbish and half the mountain was closed off. It was so warm people were skiing in board shorts under sunny blue skies. Have wanted to go back ever since because I feel like I haven't really experienced it properly. Every time I see they're getting huge dumps of snow I start twitching and reaching for the credit card.... which has been quite often this season.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I got back from JH on Monday, fantastic week my 3rd time. Huge amounts of snow, great day out at Grand Targhee which had 1313 13 inches of new snow the night before. Great reading such a good report, I went with 14 mates and we had a blast!!! I love the place.
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Skiing has always been a weather dependent holiday. I've gone to some good size mountains in the Alps and found the skiing "limited" even for one week. That's when clouds made visibility zero the whole mountain. But when the weather/snow condition was right, even a tiny mountain was enough for me to ski days and days non-stop!
I've been in the Mad River Valley for the past 4 days. Tomorrow will be my last day and I really wish I don't have to leave. The mountains here aren't terribly big. But it's been snowing 3 of those 4 days and the condition had been so good that it really doesn't matter if I'm skiing a handful of trails over and over again. (I haven't even gone into the woods yet 'cause I've been busy just cruising the marked trails)
Contrast that to the previous 4 days. Condition had been less than steller. So even though I hadn't "covered" all of the trails of another new (to me) mountain, I just didn't feel like bothering. Instead, I was faffing about with some demo skis just to kill the time. I was bored not because the mountain didn't have more trails but because all the trails skied the same: hard as rock! 
I've been to Jackson Hole twice, with opposite condition. The first time the whole mountain was mostly re-frozen moguls. But the second time, I lucked out with a foot or more of fresh snow. Well, the mountain skied BIG! Fortunately for me, it's easy enough to go there a bunch more times. I know my luck with the weather will even out.
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You know it makes sense.
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Great read. Thanks.
Thought you would have written more about the food, even getting into the kitchen 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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abc, Fair point, I went to Jasper which has only a small ski area & is miles from anywhere. I had skied it all after 2 days. Then they had a storm bringing a foot of fresh snow & it didn't matter where you were skiing, it was great fun. I even went back another time, making the transatlantic crossing & spectacular 250 mile transfer from Calgary through the spectacular National Park. I suspect the attraction of the best prime rib I have ever had at Tonquins, friendly locals, no single supplement at The De'd Dog (Astoria) & heavily discounted deal might have had something to do with it.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Please could I ask who you flew with? We are looking to go from Manchester in December. We like to self plan as feel too restricted with a package. Looking at the flights, it's very confusing which route would be best to take as we realise we can't go non-stop direct. Thank you 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Best routes are probably through Dallas or other southern hubs. Lots of direct flights from Chicago but Chicago also vulnerable to winter storm backups.
Back to the OP, I was in Jackson first week in March. We weren't as lucky with the snow but had a solid crew to enjoy the steep bumps in the trees, the funky weird snow in the Hobacks and even got a few laps in with the great Bob Peters. For a man with 2 artificial knees he was obviously given the " sh:t off a shovel" version of the implants.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Bump.....Hi, we used http://www.americanskiclassics.com/ to put together a customized package of our choice of flights, transfers, hotel & lift passes. I can recommend them as they got us a great deal on the hotel & ski pass + making a package gives you extra rights & ATOL protection if things go ary. From Manchester you will need to change planes twice. We went MAN-->New York---> Denver--->Jackson hole with United airways which are not the greatest but were the cheapest at the time. British airways have a sale at the moment and would be more pleasant MAN--->LHR---->Dallas--->Jackson Hole for £726. Discounted lift passes are not yet available for next season. Hope you get sorted & have a great trip.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thanks for the quick reply and the info, I'm starting to plan now for Xmas so you've given me a starting point. If only BA still did flights from MAN, it would make the long journey a bit less painful 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@JohnDory, we once flew back via Chicago which worked well. We caught a late flight from JH so we had an extra day's skiing, and we spent the night in Chicago. It was all very civilised compared with the normal timing of transatlantic flights. American Ski Classics sorted it put for us - they're a great company to deal with.
Be careful of December if you want to ski the rough stuff, btw. Coverage might be a bit thin on the double blacks.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| DB wrote: |
Great report.
Love this comment ......
| Lechbob wrote: |
| Peters skiing was enthusiastic beyond his ability |
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This reminds me of a top 10 list of skiing rules, of which one was
"Adjust your ability to the speed you are skiing at"
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FAQ
Takes about 45 mins to an hour to eat up in the morning 
