Austria (now Europe) 2024

A snowHead

Hi all
This is a great site with useful info.
I’m planning a ski holiday to Europe in 2024. I understand to avoid France during February due to school holidays and subsequent crowding.
I believe Fasching finishes on February 24th. Would the crowds and pricing in Austria usually be back to normal the next week? (The week straddling the end of February and beginning of March).
Thanks

A snowHead

In my experience "high season" is more spread out in Austria. Peak crowds tend to be less than in France but there are more busy weeks. Fasching (Fasching Dienstag, which is the final day, is the 20th of February) does attract more locals out in decent conditions but I wouldn't base your trip around worrying about that. Cheaper prices (if they exist) would be found in January and from mid March onwards. Some Austrian places tend to have more visitors from certain places than others, eg Ski Amade/Schladming tends to attract Viennese, SkiWelt Dutch visitors etc so you could spend hours studying school holiday calendars to little effect.

What sort of place are you looking for?

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the Fasching Week is the hell....try to avoid it. Usually the Fasching week are one of the weeks from Crocus Holidays in Holland. This week is the TOP high season in AUT
except that....
There is a big difference between most of AUT resorts and the big FR resorts.
Many resorts in AU are not purpose built. That means you live in a village and you have to take a gondel to go to the main ski area zb Mayrhofen, Ischgl, partially Kitz, SkiWelt etc
These resorts in Christmas - Silvester - Faschings are "NO GO"
Some others as the Arlberg or obertauern where there are more entries to reach the ski area are better.
This is also for some FR resorts.

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@Ozsnowfan, welcome to snowHeads

I wouldn’t be overly worried about the time you’ve stated for your intended trip. As mentioned above, Fasching Dienstag is typically the busiest day.

Which areas are you looking at and, I guess importantly, what kind of skiing are you most focused on? Any other factors to consider (slope access, Apres ski, other tourist related options etc)?

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Thank you for the replies. We’ll probably fly into Prague and have a couple of days checking that city out before catching the train to a town that has a train station. I like the idea of being able to ski some surrounding mountains but also be able to head to Salzburg on the train for a day trip. My initial research points me to Zell am See. That gives easy access to Saalbach and Kaprun and is an easy train ride to Kitzbuhel. We won’t get a car until we get down into Italy.
It gives me some comfort that crowds shouldn’t be too excessive in very late February and early March.
Any other suggestions would be welcome. We have limited experience skiing in Austria in particular and Europe in general.

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@Ozsnowfan, If you are doing a general European holiday then visits to both Prague & Salzburg is a good idea (note that the train connections from Prague might not be that easy). Zell could work though Kitzbühel might better. Another train option might be the villages in the Zillertal (fast train from Salzburg to Jenbach then local train) and then easy to get a connection onto Italy afterwards - train every two hours from Jenbach to Verona. The best "train" resort (and by many standards the best resort) is St Anton as the station is in the middle of the village but not so good for trains from Prague (its a long train journey). Other "train" options near Salzburg might be Ski Amade or Schladming.

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@munich_irish, schladming is in the ski amade and only there and Radstadt have railway stations.. Altenmarkt do but not many trains.

After all it is free

@Ozsnowfan, Kitzbuhel a good shout, high up at Pass Thurn/ Jochberg is especially good as is Bichlalm. Never been a big fan of Zell, always found it over busy. Innsbruck is a must do imv for a city stop overnight on way to Arlberg, train to Anton. Can’t go to Austria without a couple of nights minimum in St Anton and/ or Lech. Try also get into the Bregenzerwald in Vorarlberg. Slower pace but if snow is great elsewhere it’ll be epic in and around Damuls. Enjoy it.

@holidayloverxx, in the days when I used to go to St Johann & Wagrain we used to do day trips to Salzburg by train, it was very easy. I always think of Ski Amade being the area between St Johann & Flachau (including Zauchensee), but I assume Schladming is now part of the same pass. When I first went it was called the "3 Täler Skischaukel", Ski Amade coming in a few years later.

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@munich_irish, Klienarl and Zauchensee now linked to Flachau via the Panorama link. Schladming, Grossarl, Dorf, Bad and Super Gastein, Filzmoos and the Hochkonig all on the same Ski Amade Pass.

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Another general question if I may. Are Austria and Italy incredibly busy as France reportedly is during February?

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@Ozsnowfan, There is a bias among many UK based skiers (reflected on here) towards France, it is the shortest drive and many of the main resorts are within easy reach of Geneva airport. Spring half term week for the brits often coincides with half term for those living in Paris which rather creates a perfect storm for some of the French areas. Italy tends to be very much focused on weekends (there is no "half term" holiday in Italy) with many Italians owning an apartment in Italian resorts. As noted above the "high" season weeks in Austria tend to be more spread out, my experience is that New Year is the busiest time (usually best avoided as snow conditions are often marginal and prices crazy) but February is generally OK even in Fasching week (some places more affected than others). Personally I would not worry too much about this, unless you go somewhere with lots of Dutch folk I dont think it makes much difference.

You know it makes sense.

Where in Austria would be a little off the radar and lacking the Dutch crowds?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@Ozsnowfan, The places I am most aware that appeal to the Dutch are the SkiWelt villages (especially Brixen & Westendorf) perhaps there there some other places too. If you want somewhere a little less well known perhaps look at the Hochkönig villages, easy to get to from Salzburg, train to Bischofshofen or Saalfelden then transfer (even bus), not so much skiing but very attractive. Kitzbühel is not a bad option either.

A snowHead

If you don't want to be around dutch people then definitely avoid ischgl

A snowHead

@Ozsnowfan, Dutch holidays are split through February, usually the two weeks in which Fasching falls. As @munich_irish, said, the Hochkonig has some great options if you have to come when the Dutch abound. Flachau, Wagrain and surrounding areas are popular with the Dutch.

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I used to go for skiing in AUT from 2006 till nowadays, and i think that there is not any place at all where you will find not so many Dutch people especially in February.
Probably as mentioned the Hochkönig or some resorts in Ost Tirol or Oberösterreich etc and definitely in Kärnten.
All the other big resorts in Tirol / Vorarlberg and Salzburg are full with Dutch people in these weeks.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@RobMcQ, Fasching Dienstag (as it is known in Bavaria and parts of Austria) is indeed what is called Shrove Tuesday in England. The issue is that "half term" does not necessarily coincide with that week, for Bavaria it will do but other places might well be the week either side. High season runs pretty much for the entire part of February maybe even into March some years.

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As ever, this post is very useful.

https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=5098780&highlight=school+holidays#5098780

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@RobMcQ, You're right, it is week of 12th Feb in 2024. Got it mixed up with this year.

After all it is free

If I was going to the Zell area, I’d base myself in Saalbach rather than Zell. Zell gets very crowded.

Our plans have changed a little. The time in Europe will be a bit longer than first planned.
We’ll be flying into Milan on Friday 26th of January. We’ll grab a car. I’m guessing being a relatively quiet time on the ski calendar we’ll be able to get short notice accommodation somewhere in France for a week. We’ve been to a few of the mega resorts in France so this time will try to check somewhere else out - depending on snow conditions of course. I’m liking the look of Briancon. My wife likes a day exploring a town and having a car we’ll be able to drive to a nearby mountain like Duex Alps or Alp d’Huez or even Via Lattea. If snow is not good in that region we can always drive somewhere further in the north like PDS.
After that first week we are looking to drive to Aosta via a night in Turin. We’ll only have a few days in that area. We can check out Cervinia and perhaps get a look at the Matterhorn, have a day in Courmayeur or Pila or Champoluc. We’ll then drop the car off in Milan and either take a direct flight to Prague for a couple of days or take a train ride toward Austria with a stop or two in interesting towns like Verona or Bolzano or Innsbruck.
If we go to Prague we’ll take a long train ride for a day (by that time a rest day will be ok) to an Austrian resort. My wife likes the idea of a day trip to Salzburg on the train so we’ll more than likely be in the area around Saalbach/Zell am See. Somewhere near St Anton would be nice but it would make the day trip to Salzburg difficult. (My wife likes to break up a ski week with a day off in the middle).
We’ll catch the train to Munich on the Sunday 18th and fly back to Australia the next day.

1. How do I change the thread title to Europe 2024? Please.
2. What is the best site to do car rental? I’ll want an auto given I’ll be driving on the opposite side of the road that I usually do. Is there any chance of booking a car with winter tyres in Milan?
I’m guessing most of the valley highways and roads should be free of snow but I’m sure there will be a pass or two with elevation that I’ll have to negotiate at some point.
3. I’m guessing that splitting Austrian accommodation in between Saturday to Saturday would be hard to do that time of year? If it was possible we may do 4 days in Salzburgerland and 4 days in Arlberg area.

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@Ozsnowfan, if you edit your first post I am sure that lets you edit title

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Thanks @NickyJ,

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@Ozsnowfan, I find expedia or economycarrentals.com best value for rentals. They are brokers so will trade the operators off against each other and come in much cheaper. Cars at that time of year in Italy are insanely cheap at that time of year due to the excess of summer stock. In the past I've spent like €6 a day, though prices have gone up in last few years.

Winter tyres are required on rental cars in Switzerland and Austria, but not in France or Italy. I have once gotten winter tyres in Milan through a broker, and as it happened I really needed them. Most operators will have a few cars with Winter tyres but you will probably have to book with the company directly and pay a premium for it. See what comes up on the broker sites maybe, if not try the companies directly.

You will get chains with your rental in Italy if you don't have Winter tyres. If you know how to put them on they are fine, but the side of the road with cold hands and an unfamiliar environment is not the time to be starting. Alternatively you can buy snow socks in petrol stations (for maybe €40) and they are really easy to put on. Not sure if they sell them in Italy though.

You are unlikely to need Winter tyres but you could get unlucky. The main roads will be kept clear, such as the main route through Aosta, its when you turn off the main road to go up to the resort that you might encounter difficulty. Those roads will also be ploughed constantly as they are a lifeline to the resort so I think you'd only get into difficulty if it was heavy snow. That side of the Alps gets less snow in general but you could be unlucky (or lucky, depending on your perspective).

From your plan I'm just wondering why you'd bother going to France. Less is more. Milan is just a little over two hours from the Aosta resorts. Not sure why you'd continue on through the tunnel to France as there is plenty of skiing there.

Better still, if you want to combine cities with skiing Bolzano and Verona are both beautiful small cities and close to the Dolomites, which are stunning. Think there are trains from both up into Austria.

@Ozsnowfan,

You know it makes sense.

@Ozsnowfan, a few years ago your fellow countryman @sbooker did a ski trip to Europe with his family. You may find his trip report thread interesting: https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=3294312&highlight=aussies+europe#3294312

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@8611, Thanks. With regard France - are you married?

@geoffers, Thanks.

@Alastair Pink, Thanks.

A snowHead

@Ozsnowfan, I, too, am wondering why you would venture to France. From Milan it's quite a trek to Briancon, although I will say that Serre Chevalier is a decent ski area but you would pass through Montgenevre/Via Lattia resorts en-route. At that time of the year snow chains are possibly needed if it snows.

The better idea would be to plan a road-trip around the Aosta Valley resorts. Base yourself for a few days in Courmayeur, ski there (and maybe get a guide to ski back down from the Sky-way) and La Thuile (which links into La Rosiere, France) with plenty of skiing, and maybe ski Pila. Spend a few days based in Champoluc and ski the Monte Rosa resorts, then head over to Valtournenche to ski there, Cervinia, and possibly Zermatt. 10 days should do that set of resorts, and you will find accommodation prices affordable. Unless there is some serious snow the roads should be clear to all these resorts.

As regards accommodation in Austria, currently on Booking.com there is very little availability around that time as the hoteliers have yet to plan their next season prices and availability. As you summise most of them want a week-long booking at the moment, so be prepared to make reservations much nearer the time if you are looking for just a few days, and expect St Anton/Lech to be pricey. Some of the villages just outside of the Arlberg ski system will have much better value and are easily accessible for the skiing (Klosterle, Stuben, Pettnau) and mean you can avoid some of the bottlenecks in the ski domain.

A snowHead

@skimastaaah, A ‘long drive’ is relative and I suspect I’m not as sensitive to lengthy periods in a car as I’m Australian. I have often driven 10 hours each way for a weekend fishing or hunting. I’ve done many skiing road trips in North America where I’ve driven over 6 hours in a day.
My wife has a certain affinity with France. We’ve been to quite a few French ski areas but never to the Serre Chevalier region. The old town of Briancon is something she would like to see. The 3.5 hour drive is no hassle.

Thanks for the tips on Austria. I appreciate it.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@Ozsnowfan, it’s an interesting armchair challenge to devise a trip that will include sightseeing in multiple countries as well as skiing opportunities. Even with three weeks you need to choose your route carefully, if you are to properly explore places and do some skiing you will want to optimise your travel time to let you spend several days in most locations.

I can see the attraction of including a mediaeval hilltop town like Briancon, and of course that gives you a ski area right there (gondola into the Serre Chevalier area, though it is about a kilometre from the historic part of town). If you are driving it would be easy to include skiing Via Lattea too since you drive right past it.

My feeling is that including the Aosta valley as well would leave you too little time for Austria. Better to head back to Milan and use the train to head Verona-Bolzano-Innsbruck as you suggest. We have just come back from cycling in that area; Verona is a reasonably nice historic Italian city (Roman amphitheatre, several palazzi including one associated with the fictional Juliet of Romeo fame), and I liked the smaller town of Bolzano (I recommend the archeological museum with Ötzi the ice man, not for the man himself since one mummified human looks much like another, but for his well preserved clothing and equipment demonstrating the level of technology 5000 years ago). You won’t get the full Italian atmosphere though in winter when it is too cold for pavement cafes.

From Bolzano the train goes over the Brenner pass to Innsbruck which has several ski areas close by. (From Bolzano you could alternatively take the bus trip up to Ortisei for a couple of days Dolomites skiing). And a further train ride will get you to Salzburg which is on your wish list and again has ski possibilities nearby. It will be a bit of a schlep to get from Salzburg to Prague then back to Munich, so you will need to keep a few days for that.

Alternatively if you started with the Aosta valley instead of Briancon, you could travel by train instead of car to Aosta (directly connected to Pila ski area) and on to Courmayeur by bus then you could get the bus through the Mont Blanc tunnel to Chamonix which is worth a few days for both skiing and sightseeing. That gives you access over to Geneva and the Swiss train system. There are of course ski resorts to visit in Switzerland, but also a route to the Austrian resorts via Zurich.

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@j b,
Some great food for thought. Thank you.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Fair point re being willing to drive. A downside of Aosta valley is I'm not sure any of the towns are really nice. Aosta itself is said to be nice with some roman ruins but it always seems industrial around it to me.

Agree with @j b re Bolzano. I much preferred it to Verona as it had much less of the Romeo & Juliet tourist schtick. Don't think most people would have heard of it. The Otzi museum is also one of the best museums I've ever been to. Verona is still nice though.

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Thanks for the contributions so far. Just rethinking plans. My wife really wants to go to France. Can anyone offer advice as to the best base for Serre Chevalier please? We will have a car and are willing to use it some days to check out nearby resorts like Montgenevre or even L2A. Somewhere that is close to local lifts and has a pub or two and a few restaurants.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@weathercam on this thread may be able to help

https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=161895&start=360

After all it is free

@Ozsnowfan,
Look at Chamonix then Courmayeur & Aosta Valley via the Mont Blanc tunnel. If skiing Breuil-Cervinia/Valtournenche you'll need to get over to Zermatt for the Matterhorn.
If doing Milan-Prague by train consider going via Vienna, Bratislava or Budapest (or a combination of).

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Just to check, is it mostly the school holidays one needs to avoid? I’ve booked Courchevel for Feb 3-10. Assume this will be fine given the main school holidays aren’t until Feb 12th. I was already a little worried about strikes… don’t need to add queuing to my list!

Help!!

Austria (now Europe) 2024

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