 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi, I am looking to buy a pair of ski which will help me to improve and progress through the intermediate plateau. I have skied on and off many years, 1-3 weeks a year. But I don’t seem to be able to progress beyond level of 3 class in the ESF French system. I am a petite skier, weight 50kg and height 163cm, not particular athletic. So ideally the ski is light weight and forgiving ski. I am starting to learn how to crave and try my hand off-piste on powder. I have a few in mind, just wondering what do you think of them?
ROSSIGNOL NOVA 8 CA
SALOMON E S/MAX N°8
NORDICA BELLE DC 78
ATOMIC CLOUD C9 RVSK LIGHT
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Maera, it's all subjective of course but I absolutely hated the S/Max 8. Wobbly and just didn't give any confidence to go steeper/ski ropey conditions. Certainly not for off piste.
Haven't skied the others but did like the Volkl Flair 76 a few years ago, was relatively stable for a light ski and lots of fun - coped with spring slush very well!
Cloud 9 are really popular and by all accounts great, haven't skied them though.
If you have the opportunity to try a few, maybe on your next trip from the hire shop, you might fancy something a smidge wider with rocker for playing off piste a bit - Atomic Maven are very light and fun skis, there's an 83 width - nearly bought the wider ones this year after tryingcthem last season. Or I've heard good things about Volkl Yumi?
Either way, skis won't solve the plateau but a fun pair will make it more pleasurable! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Maera wrote: |
| Hi, I am looking to buy a pair of ski which will help me to improve and progress through the intermediate plateau. |
Buying new skis is not the answer
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Whitegoldsbrother wrote: |
| Maera wrote: |
| Hi, I am looking to buy a pair of ski which will help me to improve and progress through the intermediate plateau. |
Buying new skis is not the answer |
Agreed. I'm not saying that better skis can't help. But you are never going to be particularly good at something you only do 1-3 weeks per year.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@boarder2020, but you can work to improve. Why so negative? The OP is asking what skis will help, not 'which skis shall I get that will perform a miracle'. (The answer is- the skis you feel good on will help!)
Given that most skiers are holiday skiers, the purist 'no point trying to improve if you only ski a couple of times a season' is at best a buzz kill and at worst a confidence knock. 
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@ElzP, I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't try to improve. I'm not saying you can't reach an ok level skiing a few weeks per year.
But let's be realistic. You are never going to be particularly great at anything you only do at most 18 days per year. Imagine learning a language, instrument, or any other sport and expecting to reach a decent level doing only 18 days per year. It's unthinkable. Yet for some reason many in the skiing world want to try and kid themselves.
Quality instruction and time on snow it's what's holding back the majority of people from getting better and breaking through the "intermediate plateau".
There are lots of things I'm not particularly good at and just do recreationally for fun. There is nothing wrong with that. I certainly wouldn't be offended or have my confidence knocked if someone said to me "if you want to improve and go to the next level you need to practice more". In fact I'd probably wonder why they felt the need to tell me something so obvious!
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
@ElzP
There are lots of things I'm not particularly good at and just do recreationally for fun. There is nothing wrong with that. I certainly wouldn't be offended or have my confidence knocked if someone said to me "if you want to improve and go to the next level you need to practice more". In fact I'd probably wonder why they felt the need to tell me something so obvious! |
The OP probably has loads of lessons and gets as much time on snow as possible - we don't know though. God knows I'm an example of someone who is stuck on the plateau even with a lot of time on snow (and guess what, just bought some skis to make it more fun  ) It would probably be good if people answered her question and followed up by pointing out that skis won't solve everything.
I may have misread your original comment, which to me came over as 'you'll not improve so why bother' - I kind of agree with what you say above but maintain that for some of us (the easily knocked? The less confident initially?) being told improvement is unlikely is a confidence knock. Takes all sorts!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
| But let's be realistic. You are never going to be particularly great at anything you only do at most 18 days per year. |
I think that's uninterestingly true. I mean, yes: there's probably an upper limit to how good you can get at anything on 18 days/year. But wherever that limit is, it's well beyond the 'intermediate plateau' or the 'ESF level 3' that the OP reports being stuck at. There are plenty of advanced, even (whatever that means) 'expert' skiers who don't ski much more than 2-3 weeks a year.
| boarder2020 wrote: |
| Quality instruction and time on snow it's what's holding back the majority of people from getting better and breaking through the "intermediate plateau". |
I strongly agree on the former, not so much on the latter. I don't think most 'intermediate plateau' skiers are limited in their technical development by the time they spend on snow, but by how they use that time: most holiday skiers follow a plan (albeit one that's not usually explicitly formulated) not to get better at skiing, and use their (limited) on-snow time ingraining bad habits. Getting better involves reflective practice (working on identifying and correcting the things that are holding you back): there's plenty of scope to do that in 1-3 weeks a year. But it's a lot easier to spend that time not doing so. Or to focus on buying new kit rather than on actually improving one's technique.
So yes, I agree that there's a limit to how good you can get on 18 days/year, but I've not encountered many people who are even close to that limit.
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| ElzP wrote: |
oh come on, buying new skis is ALWAYS the answer...  |
Absolutely! The correct number of skis to have is N+1
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@JayRo, I think makes sense, myself.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The key to getting off the intermediate plateau is continuous time on snow.
Minimum 2 weeks straight.
Body, brain and muscle memory need 3-5 days to get back to the year-earlier level.
You then need an extra 1 week to uplift skills to the next level.
Take lessons.
Buy lighter, shorter skis, to save energy and gain more control.
Ski 2 weeks in a row. Twice or thrice per season.
Rinse and repeat.
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| Quote: |
But wherever that limit is, it's well beyond the 'intermediate plateau' or the 'ESF level 3' that the OP reports being stuck at. There are plenty of advanced, even (whatever that means) 'expert' skiers who don't ski much more than 2-3 weeks a year.
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I have no idea what those levels correspond to. But by definition most people are going to be "intermediate" that's simply how normal distribution bell curve works.
I suggest your definition of advanced is way too low. Nobody reaches "expert" level doing only do 2-3 weeks a year! That's absolutely insane. I suspect some Olympians could probably maintain their expert level with just a few weeks a year, but it's not what got them there.
Honestly, when it comes to skiing expectations people just lose all sensibility. Go find any language, music, or sport instructor and tell them you want to reach an advanced level doing only 18 days per year and see what they say. It's madness.
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You know it makes sense.
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
I suggest your definition of advanced is way too low. Nobody reaches "expert" level doing only do 2-3 weeks a year! That's absolutely insane. I suspect some Olympians could probably maintain their expert level with just a few weeks a year, but it's not what got them there.
Honestly, when it comes to skiing expectations people just lose all sensibility. Go find any language, music, or sport instructor and tell them you want to reach an advanced level doing only 18 days per year and see what they say. It's madness. |
That's probably fair, although I'm not sure how relevant it is. I'm using the terms 'advanced' and 'expert' as I've seen them used in various spots aimed at (more or less) keen holiday skiers. Certainly both Inside Out and the SCGB put the divisions between 'advanced' and 'expert' in roughly the same place, even if their distinction between 'intermediate' and 'advanced' is both placed and perhaps also conceived differently (as evidenced by the different emphasis at work in the distinction between 'advanced intermediate' (which the SCGB gives a category of its own, I think with quite a large population) and 'early advanced'). You could certainly argue that 'will lose some control in the more difficult areas' (Inside Out Level 9, 'advanced') and 'Skis top to bottom except on the toughest blacks' (SCGB 'advanced') are too low truly to qualify for those terms, but then that's primarily a terminological/definitional distinction, and one that's therefore not of much interest, at least to me. Certainly, both are clearly well beyond the 'intermediate' level of ESF 3 ('You know how to pivot with parallel skis, handle different types of slopes, terrain and snow. Your new challenge: to master all the curves and the big turns, by synchronising your actions with the mechanical reactions of the skis.') at which the OP reports being stuck.
The relevant point is that it's possible to get (well) beyond that level--well beyond the level at which people frequently identify an 'intermediate plateau'--on 1-3 weeks a year. I'm not sure it matters a great deal whether you call the level beyond that 'level 4' or 'advanced intermediate' or 'early advanced' or 'silver plus' or whatever. I think most 'advanced' and 'expert' skiers recognize that the road to whatever one wants to call 'mastery' extends at least as far forward beyond them as they have travelled so far, and that is always a great deal more to learn, many more ways to improve.
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