When open top buckles I feel imediate pain relief why?

A snowHead

Hi guys, My boots are Salomon X PRO 100, 26.5 size, narrow heel, thin calves(maybe ?), medium width(102mm -104 mm), when i am on ski i feel pain under and outside of my fore foot(under the little toe). After 20 min my all foot start to feel awfull(this happens on both of my feet). I have very unflexible ankles. My question is why i feel imediate relief when open the top buckles of my boots. Do i need more upright boot(tp put some tongue pads or something). Unfortunately bootfitting service is not option for me here in Bulgaria so help me pleace. Thank you in advance!

A snowHead

I'm not a boot fitter but i use to get pain on the outside of my foot by my little toe and if its the same as i had. Then I'm guessing you have very short calf muscles and need to be stretching them before skiing and afterwards, well everyday even when not skiing. i use to have to release the boots after each run (when on a chair lift) but no longer need to will stretching calfs everyday

I have heal lifts in my boots because of this but i would have thought that they would need to be fitted by a boot filter so you don't get to much forward lean? (guessing) Puzzled

is there no way you can get to see a boot fitter?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

probably you are wearing them too tight.

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well lets see what CEM comes up with, hes the Jedi with this kind of thing.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I have the x max and have tried the x pro too plus skinny calves. On both boots tightening the top buckle (to give closer fit on thin calves) immediately releases pressure on ankle buckle probably leading to a desire to tighten the whole thing.

I adjusted the top buckle clips position on there mounting from default middle to tightest of three options. Can be done using an Allen key and visible on inside of boot shell buckles once you move the liner out the way. If not sure ask a shop.

That along with heat moulding has made it much better fit for my thin calves so might help you.

After all it is free

The toe buckles are just to keep the snow out, the top one is for comfort and ankle one is the important one to get nice and tight............or so I was told. Slacken off your top one.

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Thanks to all of you. My next trip will be on sunday i will try your sugestions and will tell you what hapened

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

@skibul, sounds like the calf is the initial cause of the issue but there could be other things going on as well, essentially your body is compensating in one plane of motion for a lack of available motion in another.... for example pronation of the foot is a tri planar motion involving dorsiflexion, abduction and eversion, if one of the those motions is restricted (normally dorsiflexion) then the body compensates by increasing the others, in this case abduction hence the pain on the outer edge of the foot

1 what is the shell check?,( liner out, foot into shell toes brushing the front how much space is there behind your heel?)
2 what footbeds have you got in there? supporting the load across the whole foot is always a help when someone has limited flexion
3 shell width, when doing the shell check bring your foot back to the centre of the shell then move the front side to side, is it hitting both side of the shell or is there a few mm of space
4 you probably need to try increasing the heel lift by a few mm (assuming there is space above the instep to do so)
5 simple stretches for the calf probably aren't enough, invest in a decent foam roller and an underfoot roller, then use them, you will be amazed just how much improvement you can get from a single 5 minute session working the fascia on the bottom of the foot and the calves,regular sessions can reduce the pain to next to nothing or take it away completely

hope that helps

snow reports

Thanks a lot CEM for you help. I will try to answer:
1. Shell check. I have about 2 cm between my heel and shell(maybe little more)
2. Using footbeds from Dr. Sholl with good arch support, i think they are good for me but i am sure that custom footbeds will be great(but unfortunately this is not option for me again). Otherwise i can buy surefoot or something like this on the internet. Is they will be good invest?
3. When i step on center of the shell i feel that i have a few mm from side to side.
4. Right now i use 5mm heel lifts(after a lot of reading on the internet about limited ankle flex Smile

). With them i feel improvement but the pain is still there.
5.I make some simple calf stretches but i don't feel they help me.

CEM i know it is difficult to help me without seeing my foots but ....i'm ready to post pictures, measurements and everything that will help you to advise me.

My questions are:
1. How to decide the size of the heel lifts(how to test my self?) How to test my dorsiflexion?
2. Do I need more upright position in the boot?
3. Why when i try to lean forward with bare foots on the floor, my knees go inwards? Is this normal?
4. Is there any way to simulate that specific pain without using ski boots(right now i try to do that, just to understand what is the cause of the pain, but with no success)
5. Immediate relief is felt when i open the second from the top buckle(that is my position on chair lift)

Thanks again for you help.

My questions are:
1. How to decide the size of the heel lifts(how to test my self?) How to test my dorsiflexion? you can test dorsiflexion by sitting with your feet flat on the ground, thighs parallel to ground lower legs vertical (feet about a fist width apart) using the muscles in you legs lift the whole of the front of your foot off the ground (keeping your heels in contact) have someone check how much space you are able to get under the ball of your little toe, this will give an idea of how much dorsiflexion you have. as for the heel lifts i would add a couple of mm at least and ski, then a couple more, but until we know the result of the test it is all guess work

2. Do I need more upright position in the boot? the boot you have has a 13 degree forward lean, among the most upright on the market

3. Why when i try to lean forward with bare foots on the floor, my knees go inwards? Is this normal? your knees move inwards as your feet are pronating, as your flexion appears to be limited the feet will turn outwards at the same time... this is the reason you need a CUSTOM made insert, i am afraid Dr scholl however good it might feel isn't going to cut it and a superfeet off the shelf product whilst probably better than what you have is still not strong enough to resist this motion

4. Is there any way to simulate that specific pain without using ski boots(right now i try to do that, just to understand what is the cause of the pain, but with no success) you could try standing in a flexed position barefoot BUT you must keep the feet completely parallel and resist them from turning out, it may or may not illicit the pain, simple stretches are not enough in most cases, we have found the use of a foam roller and a nano roller (under foot roller) to be the most effective way to get rapid change in the compensation patterns

5. Immediate relief is felt when i open the second from the top buckle(that is my position on chair lift) this is because the foot is able to slide a little forward when this buckle is released, it is no longer being held at the back of the boot in the dorisflexed position

hope that helps answer the questions, where are you skiing, i would suggest getting hold of a foam roller ASAP and using this evey morning before you put the boots on (and evening when you finish) and seeign the best guy you can find in resort for a custom insole, you really need to reduce that pronation and get some flexibility or it is unlikely that this pain will go away

You know it makes sense.

@CEM, that is a really interesting breakdown of the issue!

Out of interest, is there a rough average for dorsiflexion when measuring under the little toe, or a range at which it can become a problem?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@Pynch, in reality you need around 12 degrees of dorsiflexion to stand in a ski boot, what this doest take into account is the size of the calf muscle in relation to the liner/cuff of the boot as this can push you further forward causing you to require than is available, you can accommodate some of the lack of flexion with upright boots, heel lifts and other modifications but these can be limited in success by the shell of the boot

A snowHead

Hi everyone, thanks again to trying to help me. I just came from a 2 day ski trip. Unfortunately the pain was there. Sad

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The distance between my little toe and ground is around 3.0 cm(test for dorsiflexion). I had 5 mm heel lifts and i added 3mm more. It was better but the pain was still there. Definately i need insoles with more arch support for my overpronation(i think this is the key for my problem).Can you recommend me insoles for overpronation and for ski boots of course, or my only option is custom insoles.

A snowHead

@skibul, personally if it is causing you that much pain, I would go get some custom ones made, or even a set of boots (if money allows).

In my eyes there is no point being in discomfort / in a position that could potential cause injury or damage to legs, knees and feet just to save a few quid. (and thats coming from a scrimper) wink

I may be totally wrong and someone may suggest something and they work wonders for you, but just my two cents.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@skibul, an off the shelf insole is simply that, it is designed to help control excessive pronation and to give the foot a stable foundation, they do not however fill the full arch cavity and do not give a intimate fit to all the areas of the foot, a custom insert is made to YOU and fits the contours of YOUR feet, spreading the load over the whole foot is start of the process, and you have said yourself that you feel that over pronation is the key

fix it once and it is done, every time you go skiing you are spending money on getting there, staying there and lift tickets

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@CEM, I am still using the custom insoles I got made in Cham 8 years on; they have been through one set of Nordica Supercharger boots, and on the second set of foam liners with Atomic Redsters (this includes 3 seasons). As I have very high arches and a narrow heel they have been well worth every penny Toofy Grin

An insole totally fitted to your individual foot shape does make a huge amount of difference and is very cheap when your consider how much you spend on your skiing over the years.

Help!!

When open top buckles I feel imediate pain relief why?

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