 Poster: A snowHead
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Yes, indeedy Flaine has taken the 'Broadwater Farm' look to heart and must be in everyones top ten Ugly Carbuncles in the mountains. However the staggering lack of competition in the bar and restaurant zone is doubly depressing with lager at €7 a pop, and relatively modest lunch for 4 up the mountain working out at €110 its easy to see why groups leaving this weekend are saying "never again"
Surely there must be something cheaper than €7 - for what is less than a pint - in this Bauhaus ghetto.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We were surprised of the price of Flaine. We went at New Year and lunch often cost us nearly €60 and that was mainly frites and a sandwich with a drink.
Evening meals two adults two children easily over €100 main course and drinks.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Sun 1-02-15 17:30; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Thirsty, is it so different from any of the other French popular resorts? Up mountain food in Chamonix is generally even more expensive ...
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I think any resort in any country will have good and bad points. We usually go to the Grad Massif twice a year, with occasional forays elsewhere. In January last year we went to a beautiful part of Austria and ate like (Hoch)kings for a week. Sadly, the skiing was a bit boring, mainly a series of interlinked, straight line reds.
I won't name names because you won't be returning, but there genuinely are plenty of good restaurants both in Flaine and the greater GM, honest!!
Hopefully your next trip will be more enjoyable.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm fully expecting those prices and they do seem to be typical of the larger French ski areas.
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Go to Italy instead - Dolomites are highly recommended. Food is much better than France, locals very friendly and the prices are very reasonable (you don't feel like you are being ripped off as you do in France).
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We haven't been back to rip off France for 6/7 years now. Much rather Austrian, Swiss and Italian service, which is more friendly, and cheaper!
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Cant understand why so many people still go too France. You can get just as good skiing in both Austria and Italy as well as much better hospitality and far much cheaper.
Why do you put up with being ripped off?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@twodogs, the rest of us do return........so please share your recommendations!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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EUR110 for lunch... Would need a mighty ski pass reduction to balance out...
Last skid in Europe 4 years ago. Back this year.
4 & 5 years ago was Dolomites and as someone else said they aren't out to get you. 5 years ago I ate the best spam bol of my life (trust me that's a lot of spag bol). On the mountain. Cooked by a chef who chatted to me while he cooked it. Think I paid 7.95EUR for it.
Doubt with soft drinks and cake I've ever paid more than 16EUR per head for lunch on the mountain. Most nights in the village I paid less than that for tea.
Ski pass was under 200EUR for 7 days. Ski Hire 80EUR (no boots)
This year off to Austria. Pass 200EUR, hire <80EUR. Will be taking sarnies if its more than 20EUR per head for lunch. Child will be fed by ski school with supervision for 10EUR if I want it. I may well take it because even though he is 4, when he is hungry he can eat a whole horse!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| twodogs wrote: |
I won't name names because you won't be returning, but there genuinely are plenty of good restaurants both in Flaine and the greater GM, honest!!
Hopefully your next trip will be more enjoyable. |
Go on my man, name and shame those providing reasonably pitched comestibles in the GM! This is what we want to see and hear...
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| halfhand wrote: |
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Cant understand why so many people still go too France.
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...lift passes tend to be cheaper than Austria. |
I've never had that impression, and doing a quick compare of large linked areas in Austria and France doesn't support:
Arlberg = €276
Silvretta = €265.50
Ski Amade = €234
Saalbach-Hinterglemm = €235
Zell am See-Kaprun = €232.50
Zillertal Superski = €230.50
Paradiski = €285
Chamonix Mont-Blanc unlimited = €285
3V = €283
EK = €260
PDS = €242.50
Grand Massif = €231
I agree that people go to places for all sorts of different reasons and I'm not trying to say any country is better than another - FWIW, I ski mainly in France these days. I'm just surprised by your comment as it hasn't been my experience.
The OPs meal prices seem expensive to me, even allowing for French mega resort prices. I can't remember ever paying that much in EK/Paradiski, though I've not been to Flaine.
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You know it makes sense.
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Morning! Right then...
On my birthday last month we went to one of our favourite spots for a late lunch: Milk Hotel, which is right at the foot of Timalets in Les Carroz (http://www.milkhotel.fr/en/index.html)
To be fair, you could ski right past it, and we did several times to begin with, but you shouldn't because it's lovely and their website doesn't do it justice. It's a hotel too, though we haven't stayed there, and it's obviously ski in/ski out provided you're happy on a wide red. Oh, and that there's enough snow. :0)
Here's what we demolished:
- bread and dips
- a most excellent cheeseburger with chips and salad
- a big goat's cheese parcel salad
- a cheesecake with blueberry coulis
- a large beer*
- 2 large glasses of Languedoc red*
- 3 large glasses of Bourgogne whites*
- 2 espressos
* It was my birthday, we don't neck three drinks with lunch on a daily basis and, yes, we had done skiing for the day!
Total came to €70 euros, within a few cents. The googles tell me that equates to £52.76.
For the purpose of comparison, I had a quick hunt around and remembered that a branch of Bill's is opening here in Leicester this week, so I've done a quick like-for-like (mid priced wines in a 175ml, one bottle of beer cos Bill doesn't do draft, and everything else is about the same) and it comes to £66.65 excluding a tip. This comes as something of a surprise. I doubt I'll be going to see Bill any time soon.
I think something similar in one of our local independent foodie pubs would come to around £57. Naturally, if we went to Wetherspoons, or a Greasy Horse, it would be less than £30.
Other places we enjoy include:
- Brasserie Les Cimes (good value set price lunch), Pizzeria Chez Pierrot (their braserade is great) and l'Epicea (all in Flaine)
- l'Igloo at the top of Bergin in Morillon
- l'Anfionne near to the end of Plein Soleil above Les Carroz
- a place about two thirds the way down Marmotte (on the left, where the runs merge and there are a few buildings) in Samoens that's seemingly only open once it's in the sun, which does funky little rolled up pizzas for about €6. I'm certain they're frozen and just reheated but they definitely fill a hole on cold, sunny day.
Outside of this lot, we fancy trying an evening at La Cascade, if only for the snowmobile lift from Foret.
Usually I'd have included l'Ancolie but we visited twice this time round and, sadly, it wasn't up to its usual standard. Maybe we were just unlucky.
I'm sure there are others. Truth be told, we generally only eat out once a day, now I'm officially middle aged I get a strange satisfaction from making a picnic some days if the forecast is sunny and there are some great spots to take a break.
By the way, we're a couple with no kids, so if you travel as a family or a group of pals you might have completely different requirements!
Sadly, I can't really defend much of the architecture, other than that we tend not to notice it once we're up top, so maybe it does blend in reasonably well. It certainly doesn't at ground level, eh?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Half a litre of Kronenburg at the Buffalo Grill in Troyes was 5.9Euros tonight - cheapest burger & chips 9.9Euros
Puts French prices in perspective
Biggest problem is still the £/Euro exchange rate - it needs to up at around 1.63 for price parity according to the Big Mac meal index
In Flaine there is also an issue with the punters/room/week ratio -with such a large % of privately owned apartments that are not used all the time and the lack of hotels, the number of people spending money is considerably less than more touristy resorts meaning businesses have to recover their costs where they can
More tourists equals more money equals more opportunity equals more competition equals lower prices - Flaine is trying with the new developments but it will be a while before we see a major change
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Poster: A snowHead
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^^ this.
When I worked in France my boss was constantly saying just how difficult it was to run a business there, the sheer number of different taxes and charges were ridiculous compared to the UK and, unless you're doing something dodgy, there are only two main ways to employ somebody, a job for life (CDI) or fixed term contract (CDD) that can only be extended once, then the employee has to either be dismissed or given a job for life. I say a job for life rather than a permanent job since it's almost impossible to get rid of somebody. There must be workarounds but being self employed seemed to be a hassle too.
Presumably, a lot of business premises are rented annually despite the short season and fixtures and fittings are still necessary. I'd imagine that heating and electricity would be expensive, then there are the mountain-specific costs, like snow blowers and maybe skidoos or 4wd vehicles.
All in all, I feel for anybody that's got the tenacity to make a go of any kind of weather dependant/seasonal business, whether that's in the mountains or on a beach somewhere. In reality, I save hard all year to afford my holidays and if a beer costs a bit more...well, that's probably only going to cost me £20/£30 extra over the week, and mainland Europe doesn't really have a tipping culture, so there's an element of swings and roundabouts. Come to think of it, beer's expensive everywhere now: I bet a bottle of a random craft beer in a neighbourhood bar in NYC might set you back seven or eight dollars plus a dollar tip? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
and mainland Europe doesn't really have a tipping culture,
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Nor do the surrounding islands.
Just reading this thread I get a feeling that there are two completely differnt Frances that people go to (and too different Austrias as well for that matter).
In the France I go to the woman in the lift pass office advises what ticket to buy tells you about the conditions on the piste and costs up various alternatives for you such as full paradiski or just Les Arcs, or takes the time in Tignes to explain that you can just extend your lift pass by a day instead of buying a new day pass. You do not have to ask for the advice, they just give it.The lifties smile and say good day and will advise on conditions if asked. The waiters in restaurants smile and greet you as you enter. The bills for a good plat du jour are reasnoble (les than you would pay for equivilant in the UK and I was staggered to see 25cl of wine for sale at about the same price as a bottle of pop). The owner of a restaurant may just put a glass of genepie on your table at the end of a meal, or may not. You are greated at the bar entrance and served at your table (no aggressive demands for tips as in Canada). The prices are not too bad for sitting down and watching a band (3 euro a beer, but a fortune if you want a cocktail). I even spent some time talking to the barmaid, which rarely happens to me in the UK.
There appears to be another France of high prices and poor service. Luckily I don't go there
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I don't think I have ever visited this other France that you speak of.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@johnE, I am also confused by your comment about the other France. Have you ever been to Flaine? I have only been there on a couple of day trips (haven't actually stayed in the resort) but I can remember speaking to a very friendly French family who run the Cascades Restaurant. We also received friendly service at the restaurant at the top of the Grandes Platieres. I did stop for a very expensive drink at a café on a green run near the bottom of the resort but it was lovely and cosy inside and I was happy to pay slightly more to sit in a lovely place.
One reason we are returning to the Grand Massif this year is because we found the locals very friendly particularly in Les Carroz where we stayed. There are some really lovely restaurants around the Grand Massif including L'Anfionne and L'Igloo mentioned by twodogs above. I found the mountain restaurant prices in the GM pretty average for France but the food quality and ambiance were definitely above average. I think the restaurants in Flaine were possibly slightly more expensive than elsewhere in the GM.
Last year we went to the Tarentaise for the first time in a few years. I loved the skiing in Paradiski. However we encountered some very unfriendly service in the mountain restaurant in Vallandry and the highest prices we've ever paid in the café at the top of Roche de Mio la plagne. Therefore I was surprised to see this ski area used as an example of excellent food/service/prices.
To go back to the start of this thread I don't drink beer so don't have to worry about the price of it.  We gage prices on Chantilly topped hot chocolate and frites!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@snowymum, Yes I have been to Flaine and found the service excellent. It doesn't fit into my other France either. And yes, I find Les Arcs very friendly and welcoming. I don't drink hot chocolat so cannot comment upon that.
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@johnE, +1. Just back from Les Arcs and people couldn't have been more friendly and welcoming there (we were struck by it several times - met lots of really nice people). On the point of prices, we were perhaps lucky with drinks as we didn't come across anything horrendously expensive on the mountain - but back in resort you could get a huge vin chaud aux myrtilles for 2 euros 50, which seemed eminently reasonable to me
I sometimes have the same feeling about the 'other France'; I've genuinely never come across any notable rudeness/lack of decent service, etc and in fact have often experienced people going out of their way to be helpful or kind. Can't comment on Flaine, though, as I've never been there!
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| Thirsty wrote: |
Surely there must be something cheaper than €7 - for what is less than a pint - in this Bauhaus ghetto. |
is that for a pint?
Asking for beer in France is like asking for a ham sandwich in Israel, it is going to cost you. Try drinking wine.
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Maybe service and 'friendly' levels vary depending when in the season: pre-Xmas - Great , but during half-term...not so much!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@snowymum, @twodogs, Given the good knowledge you both seem to have any recommendations for a mid morning hot chocolate stop around the GM?
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@broadsman, There is a place called Le Chalet d'Clair (or similar) at the top of the Sairon lift in Morillon that does lovely hot chocs with Chantilly cream and mini marshmallows - at least it did 2 yrs ago if still under the same management. 
I think it is the place listed as Le Chalet D'Clair on Trip Advisor - if you look at the reviews there are a couple of photos of the hot chocs. Also a photo of the unusual wood burner..very welcoming on a cold day.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@snowymum, Thanks for that-sounds just right!!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Snowymum it's still there, including the wood burner upstairs and the amazing hot chocolate. I've always found Flaine to be very friendly and quite like the architecture - imagine if they had built hundreds of little chalets instead of apartments, there would be nowhere to ski. We always use the numerous happy hours for some of our après - 4.50€ a pint in le white - cheaper than my local in the UK!
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You know it makes sense.
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| halfhand wrote: |
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and if a beer costs a bit more...well, that's probably only going to cost me £20/£30 extra over the week
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You don't drink much then @twodogs, 
Probably an extra £30 per day for me but then again it's my holiday and I accept having to pay more (still grumble about it though  ). |
Haha!!!! Well, my maths was based on the fact that we have an effective subsidy compared to home, which is that the wine is much better value in Flaine/France/everywhere else on the planet. And that, staying in an apartment, I reckon that the majority of the quaffage is at supermarket prices, which are obviously less than a bar or restaurant but higher than a non-Alpine supermarket. Merde. I've just opened another can of cassoulet there, haven't I? Uh oh.
Let's talk about hot chocolate rather than beer. Much more sensible at this time of day. We aim to get through to eleven or so before stopping for one. We've realised that, wherever we go, the hot choc comes from a machine, so it's definitely for the best if you stick a rum or cointreau in it. Much safer. Unsurprisingly, we have preferred stops. One is l'Epicea, because the staff are lovely, the service is good and the location is ideal. After a few early blasts (getting up early and grabbing those first lifts has been a true revelation), it always feels good to take a quick break and decide where next to go, and l'Epicea is well located. Apparently the toilets are always clean too. I like Pente de Joules (haven't checked any of these spellings, sorry!) for much the same reasons plus the music's usually good if a bit loud. Marshmallows make great ear plugs, by the way. We also enjoy the Bissac mainly because it's always buzzing with excited learners and instructors trying to herd cats, I mean children. Out on the mountain, we're not so keen on the one half way down Serpentine near to the Desert Blanc lift, for some reason. But l'Anfionne along Plein Soleil is a winner and so is l'Igloo, especially on a sunny day. I think there's only one way down from l'Anfionne though, which is the Timalets red, so not a good choice for nervous learners, although Timalets is very wide and straight. And, again, the tent half way down Marmotte that sells rolled up pizza things. It's a good, sunny spot - when it's open! - and the old chap that runs it is lovely. That the rum is free poured is purely incidental. I keep meaning to try the garden shed thing at the top of the Tête des Saix just because it looks so precariously placed, but have yet to do so.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Cheers @twodogs, that is a very thorough appraisal and given me a good few options. Now the snow has sorted itself out I am counting the days 'til we get there. Hope we don't have a massive thaw before the end of March but I imagine now the levels are decent we should be fine.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I found Flaine the most expensive of all the French resorts for food and especially drinks. Even more than Arc 1950. I remember paying 40 euro for 5 non alcoholic drinks and a packet of crisps in 2012 at a self service cafe in the Foret.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I found Flaine the most expensive of all the French resorts for food and especially drinks. Even more than Arc 1950. I remember paying 40 euro for 5 non alcoholic drinks and a packet of crisps in 2012 at a self service cafe in the Foret.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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depends on the non-alcoholic drink.
put half a can of fanta in a funny shaped bottle, and you can sell it for 2x the price.
get some free water out of the ground at the bottom of the very mountain those skiers are skiing on, stick it in a plastic bottle and sell it for more than beer. which given that beer is water that's processed with other stuff and then heavily taxed, is quite a clever bit of marketing.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Just for comparison, we had a most excellent "Patates aux reblochon (demi-) completes", some beer, quite a lot of decent red over a 3 hour luncheon (it was no mere lunch) in Morzine yesterday for €40 a head. Magnificent.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm fairly sure the enormous assiette de charcuterie my husband had for lunch at Chalet D'Clair, Morillon mentioned in my post above was in the Euro 5-10 price range. A pity I don't like cold meats
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I have been to l2a five years ago and the cheapest beer was 5 euro but that was happy hour. Generally it was 6.50 to 7 euro. Food on mountain was a disgusting price.
Since then i have been to zell am see, ellmau x 2 and sauze and never paid more than 4 euro a beer and food is affordable. Did day trip to montgenevre and paid 36 euros for 2x horrible cheese and ham crepes and 2x kronenburg.
Off to ellmau on saturday with oh and kids and then lads trip 14/15 march which is not booked yet. Alpe d'huez, val d, tignes and meribel all been discussed but mayrhofen, saalbach or sauze is more likely unless someone can tell me i can get a few beers for under 5 euros each. It annoys me that this stops me going to france but having a few beers is all part of it for me
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| Waffle wrote: |
| I found Flaine the most expensive of all the French resorts for food and especially drinks. Even more than Arc 1950. I remember paying 40 euro for 5 non alcoholic drinks and a packet of crisps in 2012 at a self service cafe in the Foret. |
You are paying for the view.
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@andy, Hot chocolates and a small bottle of flat mineral water. The chantilly on the top probably doubled the price. My fave hot chocolate in the French Alps is 2 euros (maybe 2.50) at a ski in/out sarny shop in Arc 1950. It too is from a machine 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Filthyphil30k, LOL
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Maybe it is just me but I didn't think Tignes was expensive. 74 euro for a weeks hire of boots, skis and poles. Large pizza and a beer in a friendly restaurant 13euro. Proper dinner out in Pepe with a drink 25 euro a head including tip. 5 euro for a beer by the tufs lift on comfy been bags watching the world go by. Hot chocolate, portion of chips up by the snow park for 5 euro. Shop in the Sherpa for snacks or main meals if sc. Andorra was cheaper, but then I wasn't doing so much skiing so didn't travel far. Last year I managed Tignes for 4 for 3k all in at half term all with lessons, rental and full passes and eating out 3 nights and 4 lunches and that was 8 days skiing.
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FAQ
