 Poster: A snowHead
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I got my skis tuned in a shop in a resort. The next day they were fine off piste, but awful on piste.
If I really pressured the tips and carved them they were okay, but if I tried to side slip they grabbed and juddered. When skiing, if I didn't really concentrate they grabbed and tried to hook up. Even when I was on the drag lifts I had to concentrate to stop the edges biting.
I took them into a different shop and asked for advice. The tuning technician tried to fob me off, but then the shop owner said that he thought that the edges might have been damaged when the skis were being stone ground.
The shop owner asked me to leave the skis with him and sorted them out for free. He said that he got the technician to smooth the edges with a red stone. The second shop also base ground and waxed the skis and detuned the edges.
Next day the skis were as easy to ski as ever (I went back to the second shop to say thankyou and leave a tip).
What happened? I'm baffled because I looked at the edges really carefully before the skis were re-tuned, and I couldn't see anything out of the ordinary.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Probably left a hanging burr, which would make the skis grabby. They should not have needed a new base grind to fix it.
Other instance could be the base edge was very shallow, so engaged very quickly as soon as the ski was not flat, but more likely a hanging burr
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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probably a bad hanging burr that they removed with the red stone
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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'skis' ..... not 'ski' .... so probably not a burr.
Second shop owner realised the tech was missing out on a few euros....
You then got robbed for a full service plus a tip.
You probably had sharp skis and forgot what they felt like!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| flangesax wrote: |
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You then got robbed for a full service plus a tip.
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The second shop serviced the skis for free. The only money I paid them was the tip.
| flangesax wrote: |
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You probably had sharp skis and forgot what they felt like! |
No, I'm sure that wasn't the case. This was something much more pronounced than the feeling of sharp skis
Edit: Spelling
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 16-02-15 19:49; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| probably a bad hanging burr that they removed with the red stone |
I just read the bit on Spyderjon's web page about hanging burrs, that does sound like that is what happened.
The shop owner said that he thought that the edges had 'taken on the shape of the grinding stone' - Does anyone know what that means?
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Seems strange that both skis had an issue... unless the first shop's machine is ruggered...
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| Quote: |
'taken on the shape of the grinding stone'
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| Quote: |
first shop's machine is ruggered...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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You might have ended up with a concave base. That will make the skis extremely grabby. Get a true edge (something like a ruler if you don't have a proper tool), lay it flat across the width of the ski base and see if you can see any light coming through.
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If the skis have been base ground or put through a stone grinder a few times you may have lost the base bevel and then the base structure from the stonegrind will also grind the base edge. This needs to be removed by redoing the base edge bevel.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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From your discription :
"If I really pressured the tips and carved them they were okay, but if I tried to side slip they grabbed and juddered. When skiing, if I didn't really concentrate they grabbed and tried to hook up. Even when I was on the drag lifts I had to concentrate to stop the edges biting."
I would say the base angle was removed when serviced if no base grind was done. If the machine was knackered and had damaged the edge in any way then they would not have skied ok when pressured, being both skis it is unlikely to be a burr as again even when pressured you would feel it. Having to concentrate even when on a drag lift to me says none or very low base edge angle though there is a chance it was the base being concave as rob@rar, has suggested as the second shop did a base grind.
Did the first shop do a base grind or just the do the edges and wax the skis ??
If the full service with base grind then they may have done as rob@rar, has said.
@rob@rar,
Don't you mean place the ruler on it's edge not flat ? If flat there is potential for the ruler to not have a true edge ie be either concave or convex.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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When - and why - is a "base grind" necessary? AFAIK I've never had any skis base ground. OH used to wax and sharpen our skis (following a visit to Jon) but I get lazy and tend to get them done in the local shop - not frequently, and not more than wax and sharpen. Might do a quick coat of Notwax if the spring snow goes sticky (yuk) rather than slushy (yum). Never had any trouble skiing them, but then I probably don't ask very much of my skis!
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@speed098, sorry, bad description on my part. Yes, lay the ruler on its edge across the ski and ski if there is a noticeable gap.
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You know it makes sense.
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@pam w, if the bases are really beaten up a base grind will bring them back to new, at the cost of thinning the base and eventually shortening its life. Not something to do often: think I've only ever got a base grind done on skis I've owned two or three times over the years.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Oceanic what skis are we talking about?
I had some nice slalom carvers that I really liked, but after a decent tune they too became grabby, very much like in your description. I adapted (miraculously) and loved them even more. It turned out that THIS was what these skis were supposed te be doing. For after every tune, they were sharp and direct. And ever since that moment, I make sure to have my skis properly tuned. So what @flangesax said isn't far off, I think.
If you don't like your tuned skis, try other skis with different dimensions.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
| When - and why - is a "base grind" necessary?.... |
The reasons for a base grind are:
1. If the bases are overly concave (or possibly convex if the skis have been on a dryslope)
2. If the structure on the base has worn too smooth
3. If the base edge angle is over bevelled
4. If you want to reduce the base edge angle
5. If the base edge is badly damaged
6. If the base structure pattern/depth doesn't match the snow conditions the skis are required for (racers only)
The usual reason would be a combination 1 & 2. However many shops just use a base grind to remove light scratches (which are doing no harm at all & are actual additional structure grooves) to make a cosmetically pleasing base.
Bases are mostly 1.4mm-1.8mm thick so there's only a few grinds in 'em. How long between grinds depends on the grade of the base, speed, snow conditions, skier weight etc but I've never seen a ski need a grind in less than 10 weeks of use & it's usually something like 16-20 weeks. I typically only grind 10% of skis/boards that are in for service versus 90% for most shops.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 17-02-15 17:10; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@spyderjon, you doing grinds now?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
many shops just use a base grind to remove light scratches (which are doing no harm at all & are actual additional structure grooves)
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that's interesting. when I last took my skis in for servicing to my local shop in France and asked the guy's advice he looked at the bases, said the scratches were of no consequence, and just did wax and edge. So that's reassuring. I like the guy, so wouldn't want to think he was taking the mickey. At the end of last season he did 2 sets of skis for me for nothing, as I'd taken various visitors in to rent skis from him!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Cheizz wrote: |
If you don't like your tuned skis, try other skis with different dimensions. |
I like my skis after Spyderjon has tuned them, but they felt completely different after the first shop in resort had tuned them.
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