Beginner taking own boots on first ski holiday?

A snowHead

I have my first ski holiday next month and have just completed a 'learn to ski in a day' course. I have strange feet but did not find the hire boots too uncomfortable on my day course. On my forthcoming 2 week long holiday I have a week of group lessons followed by 6 days of 1:1 private instruction. Given that I'll be doing (hopefully) a lot of intensive skiing on my holiday and have forked out a fair bit of money for lessons would I be well advised to buy a pair of boots and get them fitted before I travel? Do all boots fit the bindings on hire skis or are there various bindings as there are in the Nordic skiing world?

Thanks in advance

Bob

A snowHead

@BobG, If you're sure that you want to carry on skiing then a well fitted pair of boots will only help. I used rental boots for the first week I went and didn't have a problem with them but I have fairly normal feet. There will be no problem with rental skis and your own boots as rental bindings tend to be adjustable to any boot sole length and the ski shop will have to fit them to your length whatever boots you have. Might be a good idea after you've had your first week and ask your instructor and he might be able to point you at a good boot fitter for your second week. You would then be able to get adjustments while still in resort. On the other hand, if you get along well with your rental boots, would you want to change them for the 1:1 lessons?

On balance I suspect you might be better to make a decision to get your own boots at the end of your holiday. If you're hooked then I would definitely advise getting boots before the next trip. Hope that helps and welcome to Snowheads.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Most people on a 1 week holiday don't want to spend it fitting boots, but if you have two weeks that's not so bad. Perhaps rent for a few days and do some research in resort as to the best local fitter, then you will still have time for adjustments, as @geepee says.

Where are you heading? Someone on here might have a recommendation for you and you could make an appointment before you go.

I was ok with hire boots in the UK when I first went skiing, but the rentals in resort were horrendous (tiny resort, one shop, only carried two models - totally the wrong shape and narrower and totally the wrong shape...) I think I would've given up if I'd had to wear them for two weeks!

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I'm going to Kranjska Gora and I don't think that there is an over-abundance of ski shops there...

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I would say probably not to buying right now unless you want the boots to last just this holiday: any boots you buy will fit the skis fine, but the problem will be that the ideal boots to progress your skiing on your second day on snow will be nice soft beginner boots and the boots you'll want after your two week trip won't be beginner boots.

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Difficult question, particularly as you are going somewhere without a lot of boot options (I imagine). If you could chat to a boot fitter now (with your feet in front of him) that might be a good thing. When I used rental boots at hemel they were awful. Like carpet slippers. Comfortable but sloppy - I have wide feet and find most boots too tight off the shelf but even going smaller didn't help. So your first day experience might not be a good guide. I wouldn't buy very cheap beginner boots but a good fitter should be able to find boots which will be fine for some years.

After all it is free

Just as an added thought - I suspect more intermediate skiers are hampered by having boots that are too stiff, too high flex, than suffer from being in boots that are too "beginnerish". The fit is the key thing and, for most of us, comfort. The final nth degree of control is really not important unless you are a keen mogul skier or similar. My son is a terrific skier and will go off happily in any old boots which kind of fit him (he's too skint to buy his own at the moment) and ski with consummate ease. He did an entire season in Val d'Isere in boots which a departing guest had deliberately left in the chalet because they were old and tatty and packed out.

Remember that boots will feel softer in a warm shop than out on the snow.

Go and visit a decent boot fitter, even if you don't end up buying now. A good one will tell you what best to do, and won't be interested in just flogging you some boots now (because they know you'll come back to them for when you do buy). What they can do is tell you if there really is anything odd about your feet.

I used to use rental boots. I used to always crash when turning left -- video evidence of over 50 crashes is available, every single one when turning left. I went to see a boot fitter, and it turns out that my left foot is two whole sizes smaller than my right. I mean, how could I have not noticed that for like 35 years, right? But there it is. I now use custom-made Daleboots, and now crash on both sides Happy

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No easy to this question. If you can afford it and have the time to spend with a good boot fitter before your holiday I see no reason why not. If you hire just don't be afraid to go back if the fit isn't good.

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@Szymon, Could you not find someone with the opposite problem and go halves on two pairs of boots wink

@BobG - If you were looking for your first pair of boots it needn't cost you more than about £250 (there ya go - Post edited - look for a ski retailer that will provide a boot fitting service - preferably by appointment - rather than one that doesn't ) plus custom footbeds (we are moulding Sidas Winter + footbeds for £45 which is the off the shelf retail price - I know other people often charge more). Having said that, we would often prefer to see people to fit boots after they have done more than a week on snow, as you haven't truly sussed a proper ski stance until you've had a bit of practice, and ski boots are designed - hence shaped - to be skied in, therefore to fit a foot/leg when it is in a proper ski stance. Ski stance is one of the things we have to lecture newish skiers on a lot - it's not just about the fit of the boots, where your centre of gravity falls affects your whole balance, speed and control of the ski.
Beginners/ early intermediate boots tend to have a bit more leeway in terms of comfort and width (last) than performance boots, so are pretty forgiving. Nonetheless, every foot, leg, skier etc is different and by seeing a bootfitting specialist you will get your alignment and arch height etc looked at, among other things, which will help pre-empt some of these problems. Your idea of strange feet may not be all that strange, compared to some of the feet I see every day - Nobody has an 'out of the box' foot , so you are unlikely to just fit any boot straight out of the box , nonetheless - it's not often that we can't fit a boot to a particular foot with the assistance of good footbeds, minor tweeks, and if you really do have special feet, the occasional shell stretch.
So a little insight - but if you are buying - buy properly and don't talk yourself into a performance boot too soon.
I hope this helps - Kath bootfitter Alpine Room Essex

You know it makes sense.

I'm not very clever with forums and chat - just adding this so I can click the box to watch the topic!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

@pam w, fair enough, - but really i'm just pointing out that there is a difference in the service and attention that you can expect - independant retailers can't expect to compete with organisations like that on price so we offer a different buying experience with expertise and experience thrown in for nothing with the retail price of the boot, with every boot hot moulded etc. So in terms of 'running down a competitor', I totally appreciate that it is a different ball game, and I respect that there are horses for courses and if someone has a good idea of how a ski boot should feel and has skied a fair bit, and also has an easy foot , then they will probably get on fairly well. There are other well known chains which do provide a more comprehensive service, so I'm not slating all non-independants

Being in the trade, I am aware that some of boots Decathlon stock are manufactured to a different spec to those available to other retailers hence the difference in price point, so yes, keen prices. (Except the ones which are the same spec as normal in which case there is only about a £20 difference).

I have spent 3 hours , and 1 1/2 hour respectively with my clients today, as that was the amount of time they needed to ensure they had the right boots, with their foot and leg issues addressed straight away , and any developing problems and tweeks needed in future, included as part of our service. For most people that represents enormous value for money.

As the discussion was veering towards 'talking to a bootfitter', I'm afraid I stuck my oar in, apologies if I have caused offence but there is a difference between boot fitting and boot selling. that is all

A snowHead

I've had new boots fitted today. I bought my first pair of boots after 5 mornings snowploughing down blue runs on my first trip. I'm diabetic and need to look after my feet, so I didnt want to risk hiring as I got better, but accepted I wanted a comfy boot on the cheap rather than performance, as I might not stick with it, so I bought one of the three options I was offered in my size at a high street 'bootfitting', this was probably 50 ski days ago, I've since improved considerably to the point my happy beginner slippers dont provide the control I am after. Turns out I have a very narrow foot (I knew it was narrow, but not *that* narrow) and have been sent home from my time with CEM in Bicester with a shiny pair of race boots because i needed the narrow width. I'm yet to ski in them (that will be over the weekend) but I can see both points of view. The length difference on my shells is 3mm, but the width difference was something like 7mm. I think today I got good value for money from my bootfitting in terms of the knowledge and time, but if I'd spent that much money week one, and then given up skiing because i hated it, then its not such good value.

I didnt want to risk hire boots with my feet so bought something cheaply and OK for the level I was skiing at at the time (blue runs, mostly snowplough turning), and where I wouldnt feel out of pocket if I didnt take to skiing, and then having now skied enough to know what I'm missing by having boots too wide in terms of control etc, I decided it was a good time to make a proper solid investmen into a good standard of boot that will last me know my development isnt so steep.

Essentially, my experience is there is nothing wrong with a beginner gettting a pair of boots in a comfort fit (not the same as massively too big/long) and then going to a proper bootfitter once they know what they want, especially if they have hired in the past and not found them too uncomfortable.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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Well, I'm not really sure what to say here
-RE Decathlon: I'll have to put my hands up to slagging off a competitor in generic fashion. I don't want to add anything particularly to that.
CEM's knowledge and expertise is well recognised both in the forum and in the industry and I am well aware that CEM is very active on these forums and gives sound advice @pam w
We haven't ever been terribly active on this forum because it's something you have to watch and give a lot of time to, and time is short at this time of year.
Oh well

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@tiggerific, I'm sure your knowledge and expertise would also be appreciated. Little Angel

There are a number of "industry professionals" who post on SHs and are very welcome.

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@pam w, - appreciated- I'm off to fit boots now - busy busy busy

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

Ah @geeo, - yep -- fair enough, let me elucidate:
Obviously a ski boot is raked forward at approx a 12degree angle - and new skiers often aren't in the habit of maintaining that angle and keeping their weight on the front of the boot, when they actually ski, in the same way that a skier who has got a couple of weeks skiing usually is. So whilst I can gently nag a customer, when they are standing in front of me in the shop to remember to trust the boots to take their weight, and to not stand too upright, and not to keep bending over and looking at their feet, I'm not there with them on the slope to keep on nagging (mercifully, you might say).
So when a person goes on the snow and sits back in the boot, or tries to ski with their knees locked, or does nothing but snowplough , the boot will not fit the same as they did in the shop. The instant you sit back or stand upright your foot will tend to slide forward in the boot, as you are effectively levering yourself forward from your calf, meaning that your toe will push against the end of the boot, your heel will slide forward and not be held effectively by the moulded shape of the liners, you will feel pressure at the base of your shin (which is where the other end of the 'lever' is), pressure on the top of your foot, as you are also levering your foot upwards from the heel and pressure on the back of your calves, which may affect your circulation (major arteries there!). So holding a good ski stance with your weight on the front of the boot - centre of gravity forward, knees over your toes etc keeps your leg angled forward and means you will be comfortable when skiing. If you don't then the boot that fitted in the shop when you were being nagged at, will cause you discomfort when you are on the slopes. And that's about the strength of it.

So it doesn't make boots harder to fit, it just means it's harder for the customer to keep in a ski stance, once on snow, that will ensure they still feel like they are fitting well.
Ski tuition is key, and understanding the cause that when that sort of discomfort arises can really help.

I hope i didn't labour that point too much, it's been a long day

Fitting a boot to a brand new skier can be a bit like trying to get someone who has never ridden pillion on a motorbike to lean into the corners with you - not everyone picks it up straight away and it can cause a bit of grief until they do!
wink

To be fair , if a new skier is going to experience those problems , he /she will get them in a hire boot too, and they will be compounded by the fact that the hire shop have spend a cursory amount of time selecting the right size and boot for them and the beginners boots will be packed-out having seen at least a dozen pairs of feet.

But the swings and roundabouts of the situation are that if someone doesn't take to the sport and never goes again they haven't spent a lot of money if they hire ...and then if they do buy later , they will buy when they know what a ski boot should feel like and can actually ski in one, and will appreciate the difference of a boot that actually fits.

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I hired for my first four years / weeks; when it became obvious that it was going to be annual I bought boots ahead of my fifth week (last year).

It is completely different with my own boots, my skiing / learning curve improved dramatically and pretty much immediately. But if I had decided to buy boots any earlier they would probably have been too soft for me now. I would have been more comfortable for a few extra weeks, but looking at an extra cost this year (which I spent on Norrona gear instead snowHead

).

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I think hiring for a first holiday is fine, if you've already tried rental boots and not had horrible problems. However Kranjska Gora is pretty small and I can see why you might be tempted to buy in advance. I know what tiggerific means by it being a bit tricky to fit total newbies but after a day of lessons you will have an idea how they should fit. Boots should be less then £200 imo for a beginner boot and they'll last a few weeks minimum before you overpower them and in the interim you'll be comfy. Where are you - we can recommend individual shops with a good reputation for comfort fit boots.

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Re cost - yes, i was hedging a bit, wasn't i. It's just that your first boots needn't be stoopidly expensive. And getting recreational boots fitted is fine, they will actually fit. It's just you might have to have the odd little word with yourself, and concentrate on stance, if you feel yourself developing any of the issues above. I'm gonna leave the convo for a bit - cheers

You know it makes sense.

West london, think about ski bartlett (uxbridge) would be my advice.

http://www.skibartlett.com/mens-recreational-ski-boots-49-c.asp

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I had my own boots from day 1. I just don't like sharing a footwear Smile

You might be better off getting boots in the resort you are going to in case you need adjustments.

A snowHead

So I've had just had a pair of boots fitted at Bartletts, the fit's OK but I'm not sure I've been sold the right boots for an intermediate skier, anyway time will tell. Surprised that they started with a Mondo 26.5 boot when I'm normally a good size 9 but they seem to fit OK. The disappointing thing is that when I got home I noticed that the boots were £60 cheaper on their website than the price I was charged! I've emailed the shop and am awaiting a reply to clarify the shop vs internet pricing.

A snowHead

What are they Bob? Do you fear they are too strong or too basic? 26.5 for a 9 isn't exceptional, ski boot sizing is different to standard shoes and often comes as a bit of a suprise ime - if you can walk about in them with any degree of comfort, they probably are big enough, it wouldn't trigger alarm bells for me.

Interesting on the price though Sad

, let us know how that goes (could be previous/this season thing maybe? </optimist>)

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Atomic Live Fit 130, probably way too strong but I am a 15 stone bloke. Had no response to the email, may have to resort to Twitter!

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My step daughter repped in Kranjska Gora for a couple of winters (maybe 3 winters ago now). She said the ski shops in resort were very expensive, about 400 euro for a pair. So would advise against buying in resort.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Is it these http://www.skibartlett.com/atomic-live-fit-130-2014-was-279-33400-p.asp for £219. That is the 2014 version. 2015 version standard seems to be £280. But that is not listed on their website from what I could see.

Boot looks a good match " It's a model for bigger and stronger skiers who need a bit more space to accommodate higher volume feet " and seems to get decent reviews.

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The boots are the 2014 version, I'd be happy to pay full price for the current version due to the improvements to the insulation in the inner boot etc. if they'd sold me the 100 stiffness version I think they'd be ideal but selling 130 stiffness boots to someone who's only done a day course plus a weeks private lessons in Glencoe seems to be less than ideal. Anyway I'm not going to judge them until they reply to my email.

Just had an apologetic email, looks like we may be able to sort this out amicably.

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At 15st and presumably 6ft ish you probably can handle them, though i would agree the 90 or the similar head adapt edge 100 might be an easier ride - If you aren't averse to going back and the fitter didn't do anything irreversible to them, I'd question it personally. 15st isn't that heavy but would seem it to a kid (some of the seasonal fitters are pretty young) - had the same happen to me a couple of pairs ago and found having boots that were too stiff (top of the range salomon) a pain despite being a all reds/fair weather blacks skier and 15st+ at the time. My softer head edge 10s are much more fun to ski (although 9 weeks on are now too soft even though I lost a bit of the weight *sigh* ) The fitters are trying to help by making sure you have a boot that will last a while, but I prefer to be comfy now and buy again when needed.

aj

After all it is free

6' ha ha, close I'm 5'10. I've just found a pair of the same boots but at 90 stiffness for sale on ebay at a bargain price so I have purchased them. I'll save the stiffer boots for Sunday best...

@BobG, I'm not about to enter the fray re whether they are the most suitable boot or size for you ... I'm not out to score points off of anyone here.
In the interests of fairness, re any difference in webpricing versus store pricing - Most stores who bootfit properly don't charge anything for the hour / two that it takes with a dedicated member of staff to advise you, measure you properly, assess your needs, present you with a selection of appropriate boots for trying, tweak and adjust for you whilst you are in store etc - So when you look at it like that, the RRP usually seems pretty fair .
A websale can be discounted much more easily because it isn't costing the retailer that considerable amount time from a specialist member of staff - It's not fitted- there's the difference, and you aren't even properly measured so you end up guessing your correct Mondopoint size, which may be based on previous experience of ill-fitting hire boots, or a conversion chart, and what's more, the boot doesn't get hot moulded or custom moulded for you.

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I've no issues with paying RRP, I do take issues with being treated like a mug. The mark up on the insoles alone will more than pay for the fitting time so let's not feel too sorry for the poor retailer. I have since asked if the website price is an internet only price but they declined to answer.

Help!!

Beginner taking own boots on first ski holiday?

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