 Poster: A snowHead
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...if so how was it? what standard do you need to be before attending? Also toying with the idea of doing the 10 week GAP course. Does anyone know of any alternatives? Cheers 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Preston Pete, Did a Basi training course in '88...I expect a lot has changed since then. Are you planning for this winter - or next (I guess next if you are doing a GAP).
If you are planning for next year, you may want to do a Snowsport England course first...most (if not all) the skills are transferrable from plastic to snow, and it'll make the BASI course much easier.
Also, try some dry slope racing to get your technique revved up. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Preston Pete, http://www.natives.co.uk/instructor/ that's a fairly comprehensive list. You never know, you might even meet me on on one of the NZ courses this Summer.
From a personal point of view I found the BASI system to be incredibly turgid and full of 'newspeak' tautology. Also, at the time, there was a very unpleasant internal political rancor in progress. I can't fault the quality or the dedication of the trainers and it looks like they've done a little work on the manual to make it less of the dirge it was. If you want to work in France then the Canadians seem to have the best relationships with them and you also get the opportunity to work on your kermit at the same time you're training.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Did this back in the old days when it was called a foundation course and didn't actually qualify you to do anything except attend what was then called a grade 3 course.
I'd agree with ski about getting in some dry slope teaching training first - the difference between those with teaching experience and those without was very visible on the courses I did. And artifical slope race training was the same route I did too, although I don't think anyone else on the course I did had approached it from that angle. Actually if you're in any doubt about the standard I'd just ask BASI who amongst the trainers might be around at the slopes in your area over the summer and get them to look at your skiing in the same way that they do for the pre-selection for the gap courses now.
There are plenty of alternatives around if you're thinking of an extended course - lots in Canada, although actually it's not that difficult to do the same thing DIY as you can just book onto the CSIA I and II courses if you just base yourself in a resort there for the season and ask at the ski schools if they have training sessions you can get involved in.
A lot depends on what you want to do after this - is it as much a way of improving your own skiing as anything else, or do you see it as a career change? BASI can be logistically dificult to do now if you're not actually planning to make a career of it, thanks to the requirements to spend time working with an accredited ski school for the instructor level, and to add a second discipline for ISIA.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I took a career gap last year and qualified at "instructor" level (which is the old BASI 3 grade) on a Gap course. We did the foundation/trainee instructor course in week 3. There is no pass or fail, and so you are basically paying for a week's introduction to the Basi system of training. This means you will get some decent insrtuction from a BASi trainer on your own technical skiing as well as some mock teaching to the rest of the group. At the end of the week they give you an honest opinion of your level, and how much more work you need to do in order to pass the instructor course (which is 2 weeks of much the same content). In order not to struggle on the course you need to be comfortable skiing pretty fast on piste as well as being able to ski off piste moguls. There is also an intro to freestyle now which means you have to do some small jumps and play around in the park at the very basic level.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Preston Pete, It's so long since I did the course that I can't give you any sensible info, except that what lets most aspiring instructors down is their basic technique. Many people on the courses can ski quite well in practise but are completely unable to do a snowplough turn correctly or a basic swing. Ditto with sideslipping and so on. I concur with ski, that to prepare yourself you could do some work and training on plastic which will stand you in good stead.
BTW (and not to discourage anyone) I don't think it's even worth starting down the ski teacher route now unless you are determined to make a profession of it. It's too expensive, long and difficult. It's no longer worth having a Grade 3 as your work opportunities are very linited, so you have to aim at the top.
Good luck.
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Plastic training is great for those of us who don't spend much time on snow. I found ASSI training very useful, you focus on technique in detail and play around with a range of exercises, mainly because you have to - you need snow for high speed and carving. Teaching practice is most helpful, though there's a lot more methodology in the BASI programme. Skiing-wise, I found the BASI a LOT more demanding, so don't expect to sail through it if you scrape ASSI.
Martin
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When I did my BASI there were two ASSI qualified instructors with several years' experience. One of them scraped it and the other failed on his own high end skiing. Did help them with the teaching side of things though.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks for all your comments. I'm unsure why I want to do a BASI course and I've not restricted it just to this qualification. I suppose what it really comes down to is that I want to spend an extended time skiing and I thought I may as well do something productive rather than just be a ski bum or seasonnaire. As far a career in instructing that would be a interesting proposition and certainly something I would consider further down the line. A couple more years and my mortgage will be at a more reasonable rate which 'touch wood' should enable me to do the fullseason each year whilst working my back bottom off in the summer.
I also think I'm looking to put something back into the sport that I love, I've also looked into becoming a volunteer helper with the uphill ski club. I was inspired to post this question by a non skiing business associate when I just got back from skiing and was winging that I would love to do a ski season but wasn't sure whether I could afford to take the time off not so much in revenue stakes but in falling out of the loop with contracts/business opportunities. However, she stated that it was only like taking maternity leave and should therefore have a baby a year?!?
Once again, thanks for all your comments. The next sensible step is to spend some time either in England or Abroad with Basi qualified instructors finding out whethera) I'm good enough, if not what I need to do and b) what course/route I should take to 'live the dream'.
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Preston Pete,
I did the BASI gap course and there were a number of people like yourself who'd taken time out of work to do it. The gap course is the way to do if you think your skiing may not be quite ready but only normally have a couple of weeks skiing per year. You get several months continuous training. The BASI gap years are also considerably cheaper than many of the other organisations offering similar courses.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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beanie1, I've been bean counting . . . (couldn't resist) and there's not a lot in it between them all when you start including all costs, inclusive and exclusive. Ultimately it depends on accomodation, instruction time on snow, qualification(s) level, how much 'shadow' time you're offered and very importantly post graduation support and career development. An area that Basi has historically been a bit lax in. There are some schols that use the Basi curriculum and instructors and have follow-up systems in place. All are very friendly to talk to, drop them a email or a call and outline your needs and see what they're offering.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Masque,
Are you sure? I was just referring to the Gap courses. Other companies (eg. Ski le gap and International Academy) seem to be quite a bit more. The BASI course I did was all inclusive and about 2 - 3k less. Admittedly some of the others are in North AMerica, but that's just the cost of a flight.
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beanie1, Yup, all of them are floating around the 6K£ mark + personal entertainment costs + exam fees for a gap/season course and I see that Basi has improved it's its system for ski school experience(even getting into bed with the ESF, you also need to know that Basi is subcontracting its overseas gaps to commercial orgs like the Intr' Academy et al.
It's a matter of getting the syllabi and making an informed choice to meet your future plans.
I reckon that 8K£ will be in the ball park to complete any of the courses. It also makes a difference if you’re including multi-disciplines (strongly recommended).
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You know it makes sense.
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Our daughter did the BASI 3 course during her gap two years ago with Neige Aventure in Nendaz. She passed OK which was a great but it cost us £3700 then. I believe the same course at Nendaz now costs close on £6000. Supply and demand methinks. I have seen some other threads knocking BASI in favour of other courses available across the "pond". I think it worth doing some careful research as to how your preferred qualification is viewed by the countries in which you hope to teach. We all know La Belle France is a dead loss with its speed test, or perhaps I'm wrong - interested in views on how the various qualifications are viewed by the "ski-ing countries". 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Caveat Emptor, rather than listening to wannabes who talk about taking courses, surely it's better to take advice from people who've actually achieved something, Easiski is probably the best person to talk to, she's done it, knows what's involved and how to deal with the issues. There are certain 'experts' in this forum who I've yet to see manage more than 4 consequtive turns.
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Poster: A snowHead
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David@traxvax, A little grumpy this morning arn't we David, anything else to add. You're insulting an awful lot of people there. You need to explain a little.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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David@traxvax, Masque, the Moderators are watching ........
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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D G Orf,  who . . . me?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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This looks interesting on a slow saturday at work....keep it going...!!!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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easiski, I'm sure most of the Canadian instructors give excellent tuition (as indeed did mine), but I did see some less capable skiers esp with groups of small kids.
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Hi easiski Very interested to have your response but from my own personal point of view, the French speed test seems to me a selective criterion designed to limit the number of ski instructors available to be able to teach in France. Since this applies to the French themselves then this is clearly non-discriminatory. However I cannot see the connection between being able to thunder down a mountain at break-neck speed being in any way connected to one's ski teaching ability.
You will know in the UK how difficult it is to become a vet - you need 2 A's and a B at A-level to get admission to a course. It is not that that the vetinerary course is any more difficult than becoming a doctor, it is the small number of places available that drives the selection criterion isn't it.
Similarly in my opinion then the French Ski School authorities are artificially endeavouring to limit the number of qualified ski teachers by incorporating very high, (not necessarily equating to teaching) qualifications, before allowing one to become a professional ski instructor.
I have no axe to grind, but I am mystified by this mind set , and it can only be explained as self protectionism, or have I got it wrong?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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DAVID SNELL,
If I were in charge and capable of completing the speed test, I believe I would be inclined to have it as prerequisite to professional status. We may not see the relevance to teaching if we don't have the necessary commitment and skill ourselves. In my other life I play and teach flute. In my area there are no requirements for being a teacher: any idiot can teach, and many do. There are also many who have great rapport with their students and get good results at lower levels. Obviously the safety aspect is not so much of an issue and I wouldn't want to ban them from teaching, but it's easy for me to see the huge gap between those of us who have put in the 10000 hours of practice and the well meaning amateurs who tootle about having passed grade8.
A few of my students went on to study veterinary science, they were mostly 4A* students. Scary...
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these "gap" ski teaching courses must be a bit like the courses which take complete beginners at sailing and turn them into "Yachtmasters" in three months. I can't help feeling that the graduates must be very short of experience, have just not seen enough different conditions, and put in enough hours over enough years.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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pam w, they won't take on beginner skiers. As for teaching, you have to start sometime.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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MartinH, Concering existing ski experience, and before being allowed to go on the BASI course, our daughter had to do a test on the dry ski slope at Wycombe. The actual BASI course seems to have been split into 4 parts:
First of all she went up to Aviemore for a week where she learnt about lift systems etc. and also first aid, and mountain safety. Then she went off to Nendaz for the course - the first part was I believe the foundation course over a 2 weeks period. The next 6 week period involved some tuition but also a lot of shadowing of the ski school lessons. The final 2 weeks was very hard work getting your technique right, bashing moguls, steep terrain, and I believe some off-piste. I do agree with easiski and the classification of BASI ski teachers. I think levels 2 and 3 are probably a different ball game!
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pam w,
You're right - there are some gap courses that take complete beginners - a few in Canada, not mentioning any names. BASI do not - you need to have completed 10 weeks skiing on snow and be able to ski the fall line confidently on blacks. At the pre-selection on the dry slope they do reject people who don't meet the standard.
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You know it makes sense.
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having raised a doubt, I should add that my daughter, now 21, is an RYA dinghy sailing instructor, and simply loves instructing. She has sailed since she was 6 and can do it in her sleep, but is not a "techie" dinghy racer (she would have no idea how to optimise rig tension, etc etc) and not personally competitive. She loves taking out a nervous rookie, whether 9 years old or 69, and bringing them back thrilled with a session on a trapeze, or their first taste of helming in a stiff breeze. She's a good instructor, for beginner or intermediate sailors, without having advanced technical skills (she can sail rudderless, etc etc etc, but that's basic boatmanship, rather than advanced technique). I guess there are ski instructors like that, too, who take a genuine interest in coaching, constantly work at their own teaching technique and enjoy seeing their pupils improve. I've certainly skied with some who do. But a lot of the young sailors who trained with my daughter as instructors (at a club, over several years, for next to nothing, not in one of the commercial establishments) really only wanted something for the CV, or to get them a summer job and a good tan in a sailing resort in Greece. The last thing they want to do is teach beginners in cold UK waters on a muddy tidal estuary. I hope the BASI and other courses have selection techniques which look at personal qualities, and motivation to teach, not just at ski technique, vital though that no doubt is. I wouldn't like to end up being taught ski-ing by the snow equivalent of some of my daughter's supercilious young sailing contemporaries! Stupid old bat, they'd be thinking.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Coooo oo errr a bit of a mine field / flame bait subject area. I am qual'd as BASI Ski Instructor (BASI 3) which I acquired through doing a GAP course with a third party commercial supplier (no I didn't get it on the black mkt  ). I only choose the third party supplier because I made a fairly sudden choice to change my working life and all the BASI Gap courses apart from N.America were booked out. Although I started skiing pretty late in life (early 30's - why oh why did I waste all those yrs  ) I had been skiing for about 20 weeks when I started on my course of which I had taken lessons for about 15 of them both in Europe with ESF and BASI instructors and in US and Can. So although not a great skier I was by no means a newbie.
The BASI (and other similar) Gap courses do not aim to take a novice skier and turn them into an instructor, they aim to accelerate or compress the journey from middle/ high intermediate to instructor. As others have said the 1st stage (introductory exam) is not a qual but aims to raise awareness of what you will be expected to know and where you are deficient. As I understand it the BASI 3 exam qualifies me to teach on piste activites from novice to early intermediate, I'm not sure you need to be a mogul champ for this. Yes there is a big jump from Instructor to Ski Teacher ISIA (BASI 2) but so is there from intermediate to Ski Instructor and as someone has said you have to start teaching at some level and I would not presume to pontificate with any number of skiiers whether qualified or not about a number of topics, I sort of know what I don't know.
As for speed tests, there are 2. One of which all top level instructors; BASI International Ski Teacher Diploma (BASI 1) or an ESF instructor with their Diplome or any other Eropean qual, will have taken, the Euro speed test a timed GS run. There is a second exam or the Test Technique (a timed slalom run) which applies to France only and is designed for their early level skiiers, if you have a BASI 3 and whish to work in France as a Stagiere(?) you need this exam, if you are BASI 2 or higher you get an automatic bye. There of course is nothing wrong with speed testing it's not the only area of skiing but it is one of the core disciplines or strands that BASI will look at when they examine you. The French just have a slightly different start on it patly because historically they have so many applicants a year wheras the numbers of British appicants has been lower, this may well be changing. I chose BASI becasue; English is my 1st langauge and I felt I had enough learning to cope with and it seemed to me to offer for me as a Brit a better progression into working in the business than taking for example the French diplome and being restricted to working initially only in France, (BASI have put a lot of work in building International ties and recognition and especially for the foundation work done on their snowboarding quals).
Lastly - anyone still awake? It is a shame but in some ways inevitable that some only see an Instructors qual in light of kudos points esp when younger, some I did my course with probably would have gained more from their season by taking part in a Warren Smityh or similar freeride clinic. Yes they do it for the CV or sometimes it is easier to persuade Mummy and Daddy to part with the readies for an Instructors' course than to become a ski bum for a season or learn freeskiing technique. All done now
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Poster: A snowHead
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DAVID SNELL, Sorry to be a bit late coming back toyou ... too much work to really browse at the moment! there are 2 points about the speed test:
firstly it's now the European Speed Test (run as identicallyas possible in UK, France, Austria and Italy) and is GS as previously mentioned, when historically the French used a Special Slalom. This change is a good move because a GS turn is much closer to the sort of turn you try to teach your students. Special Slalom is very different - something like freefall.
Secondly the idea is that this is no one person's opinion of your ski-ing ability. Against the clock, if you ski well you get the time, if not you don't - end of story. Now I do agree that racing well is no guarantee that the person can teach - but the teaching courses are run in addition anyway, and have many parts, and there is a fair emphasis on them.
It is true that to some extent the French use it as a "thinning out" method, but for a fully qualified (I'm not talking about Grades 3 & 2 here) international ski teacher, you should be able to ski well. The speed test assures this.
If you look at the PSIA system, which doesn't have a race element at anything like the same level, and compare a French, Italian, Austrian (or even British) top level ski teacher with a Full Cert PSIA then you will see the ski-ing difference. No offence meant to WTFH or SSH.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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easiski, Good Evening- Thanks for the clarification - from what you say the French speed test is now much fairer than previous. And yes a GS test is much more akin to average way down a slope only much faster of course.
For a person with BASI 3 what would you advise as next step in progression. Should one keep faithful with BASI or are there other courses which are better recognised internationally. Our daughter as I mentioned has a BASI 3 and is a rising 21 year old training to be a primary school teacher, but her heart is in the mountains, like her parents. If she gets through college I am sure that she wants to be a ski-instructor for while , but is BASI 3 enough? Any advice greatly appreciated.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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DAVID SNELL, No, BASI 3 is not enough - it's a start though. You daughter would ideally need to get her Grade 2 to be able to earn a living in Europe. In addition she should start race training asap. Many young BASI skiers rather tend to leave it until the end of the process. Unless they were a racer then the training for this should take precedence. It will, of course improve her technical ski-ing no end, and help her to achieve her Grade 2.
She would not be the only ski/primary school teacher around. Several others that I know of manage to combine the two quite satisfactorily. The two jobs are complementary.
If you want any more detailed info, pm me and I'll get some info looked out for you. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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easiski, Thanks for that - she returns from a ski trip tomorrow. I'll get her to look at this thread and will take it from there. She's got 5 weeks teaching practice in front of her in a fairly deprived area of west London, so she may have other things on her mind for a while. Your advice and views greatly appreciated
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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DAVID SNELL, On the subject of race training, it will do your daughter no harm to get involved with a dry slope racing club over the summer........good relief from teaching practise too !
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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ski, hear, hear 
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easiski, 
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I knew I’d seen this somewhere,
World wide comparison table from ISIA
ISIA EQUIVALENCE TABLE (As at 5/12/04)
Group 1
APSI Level 1 (Australia)
OBSV Anwarter (Austria)
BASI Level 3 – alpine only(British)
PSIA Level 2 (USA)
CSIA Level 2 – including Freestyle Module (Canadian)
NZSIA Level 1 (New Zealand)
JOKYOSHU (Joshu) Japan
Swiss Level 1 (Vorkurs)
Group 2
Full Certification
(ISIA member countries, other than those listed in Group 3)
APSI Level 2
BASI Level 2
PSIA Level 3
OBSV Landesschilehrer
CSIA Level 3
KYOSHI (Jokyoshi) Japan
Swiss Full (Patentierungskurs) – alpine only
Group 3
APSI Level 3
CSIA Level 4
PSIA DCL trainer
NZSIA Level 2
BASI Level 1
OBSV Staatlicher
French Full
JOKYNKYOSHI (Kyoshi) Japan
Swiss Full (Patentierungskurs) – snowboard only
Plus I’ve just read my latest Basi mag, looks like they’ve made some significant changes geared to building a relationship with the ESF (I’ve no opinion on that).
But one thing that has struck me in reading many if the syllabi, is the differing approach to transferable skills and the language used in instructional methodology. Last year I had a long and alcohol fuelled conversation with the director (I think) of the ESF in La Ros. and he was strongly bemoaning the French training method where other transferable sporting knowledge or teaching experience is emphatically discouraged in preparing to teach with the ESF, I experienced a similar mindset with my Basi course, though that was a while ago and someone else will have to comment on current practice.
It just seems from reading the Canadian and NZ courses that they’re less rigid in the language of instruction but place a higher emphasis in the development of instructional communication both verbal and practical.
Anyone any experience?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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are you sure that NZSIA Level 2 is in group 3? Because I know a few and they are no way near up to the standard of a BASI 1/French full etc.
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beanie1, It's their list . . . but it does seem odd.
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FAQ
the BASI 3 was called "Assistant Ski Instructor" Grade 2 "Ski Instructor" and Grade 1 "Ski Teacher". I'm sorry they changed it because that's about the right description!!
