 Poster: A snowHead
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G'day!
I'm another newbie who returned to skiing last year after a 30 year gap... Things have changed!
Last year the wife and I went to Alpbach, which was perfect for remembering how to fall over without breaking anything, and now we've just returned from Hinterglemm which is a whole different ballgame in terms of the amount of pistes.
As I'm already looking for next January's trip, any recommendations?
We're looking for lots of piste variety, only a bit of "Snow, sex and suspicious parents" as I've now passed 50 but not completely dead, and probably Europe as we can only go away for 1 week - and preferably somewhere with airport transfers of 2 hours or less...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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maybe somewhere like Morzine? Would probably hit all of the above, or else one of the 'satellite parts'of the three valleys- Reberty?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Are French mountain restaurants as good as their Austrian equivalents? I walked through the Portes de Soleil region (or at least Samoens and Chapel D'Abondance) a few years ago while doing the GR4 from Evian to Chamonix and it's a beautiful area - but beer was expensive and food was fondue or steak/hache!
However, the wife speaks French, which is a bonus; I can only swear in French - my German is much better...
As for the skiing, is it true that French reds are harder than Austrian ones, or is it more like gritstone vs. limestone climbing grades (ie what you're used to )?
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I was going to say Morzine as well and my experience was that you can eat well and not too expensively there, if you look intelligently for plats du jour and vin de table, rather than chips and fizzy drinks.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Leonard Smalls
Due to higher taxation in France, French mountain restaurants are generally more expensive than Austrian or Italian mountain restaurants and you won't get as good value for money. Basic economics.
I speak French* but we now only go to Austria or Italy and English is widely spoken. As long as you go somewhere with a decent choice of pistes you can pick what you like.
Try somewhere like Obergurgl/Hochgurgl in Austria or Corvara/Arabba in Italy.
We're both over 50 btw.
* and a smattering of German but rarely need it.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 21-01-15 16:18; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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How about Italy? Dolomites?
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@pam w, "How about Italy? Dolomites?"
Are you telepathic? Our favourite ski area. Mmmm ...
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@Leonard Smalls,
Firstly I would say look at this January at the moment, some places have a lot better snow than others. January is low season, personally I would not book ahead for two people to travel in January unless you have a specific reason to travel somewhere but wait and see where the snow falls, as a bonus you can sometimes get stunningly good value packages by booking last minute.
As far as mountain restaurants are concerned comparing the two countries I would say firstly you can eat very well in both Secondly if you go to the more expensive French resorts a lot of the on hill eating can be eye wateringly expensive. A lot of the large mountain restaurants in France have pretty disappointing food, on the other hand some of the smaller ones in some areas can provide really excellent value high quality French food at a n amazingly reasonable price . It is the art of the specific rather than the general.
As far as the reds go in general it is probably more resort specific than country specific, having said that France has four grades of piste rather than three and on average their reds are possibly slightly tougher than Austrian ones but this kind of generalisation is of little use if you are looking for a resort with difficult or easy runs you are better searching by resort rather than country.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@T Bar, "some places have a lot better snow than others"
That's true, but what is also true is that the further east you go the colder it is thus snow cannon can work much more reliably in the event there's little natural snowfall (like this year). Like this year when we were in the Dolomites and had great skiing when further west in France it was in general pretty dismal. We also make sure we're at least 2000m or can get there really easily.
Agree with what you say about piste grading, we have found that Italian pistes of a given grade are generally (much) easier than French ones.
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| Quote: |
we have found that Italian pistes of a given grade are generally (much) easier than French ones.
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I don't think you can generalise like that. Varies much more between resorts than it does between entire countries. There's a red run in Arabba which would be black in most of the French places I ski in (because of its pitch). Just in our immediate vicinity there are some red runs which are harder than some black runs (and that's without taking into account conditions - there's a red run in Notre Dame de Bellecombe which is harder, even in good snow, than the easiest of the black runs in lift-linked Les Saisies.
It really doesn't do to get hung up on piste gradings. Go to a good ski school, get some lessons, tell the instructor what you want and let him/her decide where to take you.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| pam w wrote: |
| [It really doesn't do to get hung up on piste gradings |
That's why I said "generally" and "As long as you go somewhere with a decent choice of pistes you can pick what you like."
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@irie,
| Quote: |
That's true, but what is also true is that the further east you go the colder it is thus snow cannon can work much more reliably in the event there's little natural snowfall (like this year). Like this year when we were in the Dolomites and had great skiing when further west in France it was in general pretty dismal. We also make sure we're at least 2000m or can get there really easily.
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Yes there are lots of ways of potentially maximising your chances of snow but pretty much everywhere gets poor snow conditions at times, and from reported experience that includes the Dolomites(I have never been but it is pretty much number one on my list of places to visit that I have not been to). In January other than around new year you generally are assured of getting decent accommodation in pretty much any resort. Now people may have reasons to choose a resort , great ski school., place they always go . place they have always wanted to go etc. But if there are a large number of suitable places why not wait and go for the best snow?
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If you are not looking for a hectic nightlife, Pila in Italy is a beautiful resort, plenty of reds to keep you occupied and very beautiful. Passo Tonale in Italy was a bit bland but plenty of snow...
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You know it makes sense.
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Problem with not booking early is that I WANT IT NOW!
However, I can see the sense in waiting to see where the snow is - though somewhere high is more likely to be dribbling in it...
Like the look of Pila too. Having walked through the Aosta valley while doing the TMB I know it's beautiful.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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By the way @Leonard Smalls, we might be the wrong side of the 50th party but we're not dead... 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Fruity, Me neither! We stayed up till almost 11pm one night and drank 3 whole hefe Weiss dunkels (*) each!
However, after we'd done the whole of the Saalbach-Hinterglemm Ski Circus it was 9pm bed...
*and a sneaky hot chocolate before bed
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think 11pm (one night) was probably the earliest I managed to get to bed when in Saalbach.....by some way 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Cacciatore, I saw a number of older chaps in Hinterglemm who wouldn't have looked out of place singing "show me the way to go home" at 8pm...
I save the late boozy nights for climbing trips when I need the hangover the mask the following day's fear!
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| Quote: |
2 weeks late Feb which by pure chance wink happens to miss all the European school holidays
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sounds very unlikely. French school hols from 7 Feb - 7 March this year.
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| Quote: |
somewhere high is more likely to be dribbling in it...
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when snow is patchy it's quite often the case that one area (the Pyrenees, say) is absolutely drowning in snow, at all altitudes, and another area (the northern French Alps, say) isn't. When the Dolomites and southern Austria had far too much snow last year, northern Austria was a bit parched.
And very high places can be bleak, freezing, etc etc. At times when practically all lift in the Espace Killy were closed because of high avalanche risk, those of us in less high altitude resorts just a couple of hours drive away were enjoying plenty of snow and lifts open.
Booking late for holidays in low season makes extremely good sense unless you are absolutely determined to get very specific accommodation in a specific resort. Just need to be open-minded - whether to head to Austria, Italy, the Pyrenees, the Tarentaise, etc etc Not only are you much more likely to find good snow, you will also quite possibly save a shed load of money.
And sometimes that will mean heading for the high altitude resorts which generally have very little else to commend them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| sounds very unlikely. French school hols from 7 Feb - 7 March this year. |
Yes, I know, I use the VT 2014/2015 European school holiday spreadsheet. Never seen any French in the Dolomites, and only a few Dutch for that matter.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@T Bar,
Because we get cheap as chips air fares into Innsbruck.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@irie,
If the dolomites are where you like fine , but for me if I had the flights to Innsbruck I would wait and see, if the Tyrol was swimming in snow and the dolomites suffering a drought I know which place I would rather be from a skiing point of view.
There must be hundreds of places within two hours of Innsbruck.
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@T Bar, That's exactly the point, Innsbruck is an ideal entry point. We currently think we'll go to the Dolomites again next year but could well go somewhere different as well. We're flexible - but the Dolomites are beautiful ...
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You know it makes sense.
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The Dolomites certainly are beautiful and I'm very much looking forward to being back there but I was a bit taken aback at how very crowded many of the Sella Ronda slopes were in the first week of February last year, with chunking lift queues at times (birthday bash, same week this year). I don't know whether that was par for the course, but it was a culture shock to me, being used to much quieter skiing outside holiday periods here in France and skiing straight onto the lifts.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@pam w, Trouble is that if it's a blue sky day (and especially a weekend) then everyone (IYSWIM) in the surrounding area decides to "do the Sella Ronda" and it can be like the M27 on a Friday evening. We thought that it would be deserted early on New Years Day - but it was a clear blue sky day and boy were we wrong! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Leonard Smalls, Have a look at Pila (big fan) - great little resort with loads of very quiet crusing pistes and good teaching. We use Pilaski as she just sorts everything out for us and lives in resort. Very easy to get there from Turin but also from Geneva which has more flight options.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Jake43, Fruity meantioned Pila earlier...
Is it easy to get to the skiing in the rest of Val D'Aosta from there?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Leonard Smalls, The road up to Pila is a bit windy, but if you're taking your own car then the whole of the Val is available to you. You'll need chains. While we were there we had a major changeover day snowfall and the hairpin bends down from Pila were scary...
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@Fruity, If one doesn't have a car (or doesn't want to use it) is there a regular ski shuttle bus up and down the valley between resorts?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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From memory, I didn't see one, but my mother in law who was staying with us, went into the valley on the gondola. She had a quite a mooch around down there over a couple of days....
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@irie, I don't think the resorts are close enough to each other, if you look at a map of the Aosta ski region.....Courmeyer for instance, is about as far away from Pila as Sainte Foy in France is... as the crow flies...
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@Fruity, OK, thanks. We like small resorts as long as it's easy to get to surrounding ski areas. 30 (ish) minutes in a bus or car is OK but any more than that starts to be a PITA.
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Have you been to Andorra then @irie, ??? lots of skiable linked resorts...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
we have found that Italian pistes of a given grade are generally (much) easier than French ones.
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I don't think you can generalise like that. Varies much more between resorts than it does between entire countries. There's a red run in Arabba which would be black in most of the French places I ski in (because of its pitch). Just in our immediate vicinity there are some red runs which are harder than some black runs (and that's without taking into account conditions - there's a red run in Notre Dame de Bellecombe which is harder, even in good snow, than the easiest of the black runs in lift-linked Les Saisies.
It really doesn't do to get hung up on piste gradings. Go to a good ski school, get some lessons, tell the instructor what you want and let him/her decide where to take you. |
I reckon that particular "red" (down from Portavescovo I assume) is red purely because it is unavoidable to do the Sella Ronda Orange route and the major initial selling point of the area (ie the thing that gets you there the first time) is the Sella Ronda so if one of the directions was advertised as involving a Black Piste it would put off many intermediates who are more than capable but have an irrational fear of a particular colour of piste. Add the fact that the daily pisting, rules and the fact that most of the Dolomites off piste is very intimidating, and so not that appealing for those preferring off piste rather than free ride and it looks like a marketing necessity that the piste is red. Still prefer it to Santons or Verte in Val d'Isere!
There is technically another Black on the Orange Sella between Canazei and Selva but it is avoidable and the bypass is heavily signposted.
I think the big difference between France and Italy is grooming - Italy grooms most (all) pistes, France limits grooming of blacks to some as and when.
I'd much rather deal with a Dolomites black at this stage in my skiing career than Foret or Sache (Espace Killy), the Grand Couloir (Courchevel), or pretty well anything called Mur, Wall, or Bosses and would almost certainly send OH to recce any naturides or anything notorious before I braved it. My first "wall" piste was at Glenshee, and although I enjoyed it I have limited interest in trying a longer version that isn't easily inspected from the lift!
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| Leonard Smalls wrote: |
@Jake43, Fruity meantioned Pila earlier...
Is it easy to get to the skiing in the rest of Val D'Aosta from there? |
Yes and no. It would take at least an hour to get anywhere else and hence we do not bother. You get a free day out at any other resort as part of the 7day ticket so it is just the drive putting us off. It is a good 20mins down the hairpin bend road back to A'osta then off in whatever direction you fancy. As mentioned there are busses too.
Maybe one day, but I have no problem skiing the same runs each day. Its never the same to me and I often find it more fun knowing where you are going and trying to get it right. Maybe if I ever get a run right I will then be bored - but no chance of that yet.
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FAQ
happens to miss all the European school holidays - lucky that. 
