 Poster: A snowHead
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I was just wondering which is the dominant factor in determining how much snow there is at the start of April.
a. Total snowfall for the season - i.e. giving us a reserve of snow
b. A good early 'base' to chill the ground or whatever it does.
c. Late season temperatures
d. Late season snowfalls.
I appreciate that all of these play a part, but I'm wondering what effect the poor start to this season might have on the end of the season. I gather that the 'base' is far less important nowadays with all the piste bashing, but we have still 'missed out' on circa 50cm of snowfall that may/may not be replaced.
Answers on a postcard, please.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The amount of snow might not be too important. Rather to my surprise, when there was a huge depth of snow at the end of our season, a few years ago, the top inch I was skiing on was just as slushy/icy/elephantsnotlike depending on time and slope, as when it's thinner.
Aspect of slope, coupled with temperature, and snowfall in March seem the most important to me. Once you lose a decent overnight freeze, the snow conditions, if not the skiers, go rapidly downhill.
Conditions at Christmas are unlikely to have any impact, I'd say.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Basically aggregate consolidated snowfall over the season less destructive events e.g. Rain, Foehn winds etc etc. If you're concerned about missing 50cm of snowfall early in the season which represents about 40mm of water equivalent/ 10cm consolidated base then you're probably skiing in the wrong place. Try Warth.
Obviously the wetter and sloppier earlier storms come in the better in terms of establishing a robust off piste base.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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...when Easter falls.
Last year chatel closed on 27 April, just after Easter hols and this year 19th April, just after Easter hols.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@snoozeboy, is right about it's determined by when Easter is.
In most resorts the lift companies contract the majority of their teams to cover the period from a week before christmas until the weekend after easter, there are obviously others employed for the preparation and shut down and it's these they use when they 'open early'
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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The OP asked two rather different questions. IME the length of the season, for lift-served downhill skiing, is determined by the closing date they decided in advance and except in the rare instances where they close early for lack of snow, the snow depth has nothing to do with it in the short term. In Les Saisies the closing date is always the Friday around 24/27 April, regardless of the date of Easter or the depth of snow. A few years ago there was still nearly 2m of snow at 2000m when the resort closed.
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Depends what you mean.@foxtrotzulu,
The length of the skiable season for example, or the season in which you can buy package holidays?
The latter totally depends on snow obviously, and as the later season is all about touring, it's more complicated than just quantities and timings.
The former is dictated purely by how many weeks the TOs thing they can fill and the lift companies can justify operating.
We, for instance, work all year round as we have a very fine and obliging changeover company and if they're on holiday, we'll do it.
Many apartment owners won't.
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Bear in mind that some ski areas are actually leased from farmers and there will be an agreed end date, irrespective of snow conditions. In addition many ski company employees have summer jobs which they are contracted to from a specific date, and it's kind of hard to run things without patrollers, lifties etc..
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@foxtrotzulu, lack of a base now makes no difference assuming we still get an 'average' amount of snow concentrated in the rest of the season.
How long the actual season is depends on how long you're willing to hike/climb/tour for your turns after the lifts have shut.
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In the Spanish Pyrenees, the resorts' date depends quite heavily on when Easter falls, as snoozeboy says. Very, very occasionally, if the conditions are exceptional (such as in Baqueira two years ago) they'll open beyond Easter (or the post-Easter weekend if Easter is early). The start date is as soon as possible, pulling out all the stops to open for the Spanish bank holiday weekend of 6 December.
In Andorra, they try to draw the season out a bit longer, but it's roughly the same game. Best of all are Masella (a small resort in the Spanish Pyrenees) and Sierra Nevada, where they try to aim for the first weekend in May (because they've developed a bit of a marketing thing around that) - and they often manage it, due to exceptional microclimate in the case of the former, and due to exceptional altitude in the case of the latter.
By contrast, the resorts of the French Pyrenees typically open later (nearer to Christmas) and close much earlier; partly because that's just what the French do, and partly because their peak times are Christmas and half-term holidays, and school white weeks, and they don't get much custom outside of those dates. (I suspect that those two factors mutually form a vicious circle.)
As Kenski says, this is often set in stone somewhat due to the employment contracts. (Leasing of land is less of an issue in the Pyrenees and Iberian peninsular.) What's for sure is that it has surprisingly little to do with the four factors that the OP suggests, beyond the fact that you can't open if you have no snow at all, artificial or otherwise; and you have to close when it's all literally gone to water.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I wasn't focused on length of the season from a TO perspective but from a "those pistes are looking rather brown and bare" perspective.
Best answer so far IMO was the 'aggregated snowfall less destructive events' and I think that means that the current poor start IS slightly significant if the next few weeks don't compensate for it. I.e. We could do with a MORE snow Jan/Feb/March to make up for it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@foxtrotzulu, I started to wonder in the summer if the way above average rainfall in the alps would mean a dry winter. Although at the moment it seems the main problem is the mild temperatures rather than the lack of precipitation.
The last poor season for snow I remember is 2010 -11. I think then it snowed a lot in December but hardly again from then on. So if there was a metre of snow in a given resort now it wouldn't necessarily mean good skiing late season.
In over 20 yrs of skiing (anytime from New Year to second week of April) the best snow conditions we had were in Montgenevre March/April 2010 - north facing slopes, decent altitude, cold nights and fresh snow every other day.
In 2013 the snow depth was greater in the Grand Massif in April but the warmer temps/lack of overnight freeze made the conditions heavy going from lunchtime onwards.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Thu 18-12-14 9:21; edited 1 time in total
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I was in Radstadt a couple of Easters ago staying at Flangesax's place. We had one day skiing (Easter Monday) on the Radstadt/Altenmarkt hill and they closed. They'd had a fresh dump that night and conditions were perfect. I understand they close (the lifts) pretty much on Easter Monday every year. It then gets used a bit for ski touring. When we returned home Ange posted on here that they were churning up the snow on the hill so that it melts quicker and the farmers can get to using the land for grazing sooner - which is fair enough considering that the snow would probably not still be there at the end of April if it hadn't been compacted down all season.
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You know it makes sense.
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@foxtrotzulu, not really. 1989 was the last worst snow year and following a small fall for Christmas week it then didn't snow for about 9 weeks. But thereafter it snowed well and ended OK.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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the most significant destructive event is, of course, sublimation; more snow evaporates than melts, I believe.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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In practical terms, the most important factor is WHERE the slope is located, including which direction it's facing.
9 out of 10 years, snowfall total between Dec-Mar will average out, and a big thick layer of snow are on the slope by late March. Skiers don't actually care about how much snow a foot beneath the surface!
Melting is predominately determined by length of daylight, which is a factor of location and orientation. So low elevation resorts will fare worse than high elevation ones (duh ). And south facing ones will also suffer more than north facing ones.
Snow fall in Dec typically has almost no bearing to condition in April
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| pam w wrote: |
| the most significant destructive event is, of course, sublimation; more snow evaporates than melts, I believe. |
Probably rain, no?
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