 Poster: A snowHead
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The ski school at Canadian ski complex Whistler-Blackcomb has cut its ski school prices by 50% for 11 weeks of the 2005-6 season to promote "a better experience".
The deal includes the opening weeks of the season to 18 December, the periods 16 January to 12 February, and 27 February to 12 March. A comprehensive training programme has also been introduced to enhance the professional standards of the 1200-strong team of instructors at the resort.
This report from FirstTracksOnline.
Any comments on Whistler's ski school?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have been on their Ski Espirit courses a couple of times, as have various family members - they have always been great. Also (slightly off topic) my nephew joined the "Ride Tribe" teenage boarding class over new year 2004/5 and had a blast.
Am going back to Whistler next week, so might try out some of the half price deals.
They do half and one day "supergroups" with a small number of skiers in each one (3-5?) which should be good value.
Will report back
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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David Goldsmith, If they cut their prices by 50%, an as I understand it the Canadian instructors are not paid "proper" wages anyway, how will that enhance the professional standards?
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I have done a number of Ski Esprit and Dave Murray camps on a variety of trips to Whistler and cant speak highly enough of them , both as a learning experience and socially (since they both include post skiing drinking). The Ski school staff I have met have been uniformly great, enthusiastic to teach and generally very nice people. Im going back in January and the bonus this year is it is half price !!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| easiski wrote: |
| David Goldsmith, If they cut their prices by 50%, an as I understand it the Canadian instructors are not paid "proper" wages anyway, how will that enhance the professional standards? |
Fair question. Obviously I can't say whether this is hype on Whistler's part, or a genuine promise. It's certainly not the 'hypiest' stuff in the report concerned!
Often I insert words like 'reportedly', 'claimed' etc. in these summarised news items to indicate that the news is being summarised from an unverified source.
Thanks for making the point, Charlotte.
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| easiski wrote: |
| David Goldsmith, If they cut their prices by 50%, an as I understand it the Canadian instructors are not paid "proper" wages anyway, how will that enhance the professional standards? |
Maybe it's because the ski school is owned by WhistlerBlackcomb (Intrawest) and the half price lessons are in fact a loss leader to get more people into the resort generally? Compared to the amount they blew on deals and keeping everything going and everyone happy last January monsoon season, I suspect half price lessons (note they are also not at peak periods) are not too much of a big deal for them.
All the instructors I've skied with have been outstanding (and I've skied with quite a few - I've done nearly 100 days in lessons/camps/courses/etc in Whistler and plan quite a few more this season) - I'd certainly not be doubting their "professional standards"!
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Hello from Whistler.
I teach on the Supergroups programme, maximum of 3 per instructor.
50% off represents fantastic value, not only do you get the best instruction available, but you will also learn all the secret stashes of powder, all the hidden runs, and in effect, the best places to ski, and also glean all our knowledge of the best restaurants, hottest spots etc.!
And I can assure you that 50% off your price does in no way diminish any professionalism on mine or my colleagues part.
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Last season I think all the season pass holders got free lessons. I did a Women on the Edge course which I paid for but no-one else had, it was included in their lift pass. All had done the course several times that Winter. Nothing wrong with the tuition ,I just felt a bit left out-something that has never happened in a mixed ski class. My kids did a Ride Tribe skis group, and had a blast. Hubby enjoyed his class too.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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We were there last january and despite the substandard snow (esp lower down) the Dave Murray and Supergroups were excellent.
I fact it's no exagerration to say that Ski Esprit is the reason Denise is still skiing - her group lessons in Val d'Isere at the hands of the ESF left her and another lady alone and in tears halfway up a mountain. Ski Esprit on the other hand had her *asking* to go back (to Whistler).
Oh, and it was free too - she won it in the free raffle at the Fire and Ice show 
This year she'll be doing again - twice - once full price and once half price with the special deal thingy.
I'm doing the Dave Murray on the 5-8th March and maybe again the next week.
One comment from Denise comparing Supergroups with Ski Esprit - Supergroups had different teacher/students each day so there was less continuity and she felt a touch more 'on her own' than with the Esprit.
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Ski Esprit is a first class teaching outfit.
I would certainly use it again -even at full price
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| easiski wrote: |
veeeight, I think you missed the point. As far as I understand it, you guys in Canada are only paid approx half what we're paid in France, Switzerland, Austria, USA and so on (although USA is quite dependent on tips). If the ski school owners are halving the price it's unlikely that they'll pay you more isn't it? You need proper professional wages to reflect the amount of time, effort and money spent training to get to the top level. It just sounds like hype, but worse it souns as thought they'll make you work harder for less money!!!  |
easiski,
It may be true that they would cut back, however as I said in my previous reply, this is Whistler not France and Intrawest pretty much run the whole show; if people don't come to Whistler and it falls in the ratings then the rich don't come and spend lots of cash on Intrawest developments, etc, etc... Therefore it is Intrawests interest to attract people whatever it takes - last year this meant heli-lifting snow, half price food, and completely free lessons for a while, but I suspect the instructors taking them still got paid (though I know quite a few didn't over that period because of the lack of people there taking lessons). Intrawest is a big international developer not a small ski school company so they can probably cover the discounts. Note thatthey are not offerring discounts on Extremely Canadian which isn't really part of the ski school.
| Helen Beaumont wrote: |
| Last season I think all the season pass holders got free lessons. I did a Women on the Edge course which I paid for but no-one else had, it was included in their lift pass. All had done the course several times that Winter. Nothing wrong with the tuition ,I just felt a bit left out-something that has never happened in a mixed ski class. My kids did a Ride Tribe skis group, and had a blast. Hubby enjoyed his class too. |
I was (and am) a season pass holder and didn't get any free lessons over the ones they were offering free to everyone which I though were just Supergroups (of a sort), and daily mountain improver lessons on Whistler. Didn't make too much odds to me anyway as I had (and have) a platinum pass which is far from free!   .
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There is only one ski school here in Whistler Blackcomb, and it is owned and run by Intrawest, who also own all the lift infrastructure, the mountain operations, all mountain catering, most shops etc.
So it's one big business - In order to attract customers and clients Intrawest will do whatever they have to do to market the resort.
50% off lessons does in no way diminish what I get paid.
Besides which - no Instructor this side of the pond teaches skiing for the money. We do it for the passion, and if it pays the bills, thats a bonus.
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You know it makes sense.
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The decrease isnt in anyway to do with the exchange rate? The canadian dollar is very poor at the moment, i wondered whether we might see more canadian price drops to try and encourage the visitors who may otherwise be put off canada at the moment....
Adam
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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veeeight, So in other words you're not professional? I love teaching ski-ing, but it's my living, and having spent around £10,000 (not to mention the time and effort) to get all the appropriate qualifications I do expect to get properly paid for it!
I'm not putting down any Canadian ski teachers, but this it one reason why it would be a nightmare to have Intrawest getting too big over here. While we may choose to do this job, I really don't see why we (or you) shouldn't be properly paid for it. Big companies are only interested in the bottom line. Lack of competition is also a bad thing IMO.
I've always wanted to come to Whistler, but now I'm feeling quite put off by the owners!!!!
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Poster: A snowHead
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easiski, Having only been once - I suggest it's worth a trip. It's *nice* 
It would be fantastic if the Europeans (resorts, schools and people) could learn a few things.
Sure, Intrawest are a huge, money grabbing corporation interested only in money. That's the world we live in.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
veeeight, So in other words you're not professional?
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I'll thank you to keep you barbed your comments to yourself, if you don't wish to start a bun fight.
I'll say this once more. In no way does the amount of recompense I get affect mine, or my colleagues commitment and professionalism to ensuring our clients get the highest level of instruction, combined with the best mountain experience that we can offer.
Just because instructors that side of the pond may get paid more, it doesn't necessarily follow that their guest and clients benefit from any increased wage that instructors may or may not get.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| veeeight wrote: |
I'll say this once more. In no way does the amount of recompense I get affect mine, or my colleagues commitment and professionalism to ensuring our clients get the highest level of instruction, combined with the best mountain experience that we can offer.
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I've no idea what the instructors at WB get paid, but as a client I'd certainly second that. Supergroups aren't really my thing, but I can't remember that ever being down to the instructor.
I'm sure working for intrawest isn't that great, but for me the ski school is one of the reasons I spend so much time in Whistler (and so little in France where of course they only have incredibly rude, great skier/poor teacher, non-caring instructors with huge classes - see I can make wild stereotypical accusations too!  )
I'm not sure either why you have it in for Intrawest - is it bad to be sucessful? As I pointed out, intrawests deep pockets saved the early part of last season (plus the hard work of the groomers who found snow from every last corner of the mountain, instructors who still managed to appear cheerful despite me making them stand out in the pouring rain, etc, etc, etc). Is it better to be 'fleeced' by a big corporation who at least have an interest (albeit commercial) in you having a good overall experience, or some local who charges you £6 for a pint of lager or £3 for a hot chocolate?
Fortunately easiski I get to vote with my money and you'll probably never have to worry about teaching me in LDA (veeeight you might not be so lucky!  )
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Some of the best instructors I've skied with have come through the Canadian system Most of the worst have come through BASI. BASI have been responsible for generations of rubbish skiers. Only in the last 10 years has the I in BASI had any real meaning! Also a big thanks must go to the Austrians, who held back the development of skiing as a technique for decades!
Just my opinion.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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veeeight, I was very careful to say that I was not criticising canadian instructors. However, if your job is not full time and it doesn't pay your mortgage etc. you are not a pro in the job. You can do your part-time job in a professional manner - agreed, but if it's not your living I don't see how you can be considered "a professional".
lbt, It doesn't have to be.
stuarth, If you bothered to read many other posts, you'd already know that I take max 4 people, charge less than half most of the "Brit" ski schools, and that LDA is not expensive. Please don't think of all European resorts in the same breath as Val D and Courcheval!!!
Tim Brown, But were they Grade 1s? In the past there have been too many BASI 3s out there pretending to know what they're doing. Of course they're cheap to employ ........... ps: I'm not entirely disagreeing with you.
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easiski, forgot to say that the VERY best instructor I've ever skied with was, and still is I hope, a BASI trainer. And, yes, I'm sorry to say that one of the VERY worst was a BASI grade 1. Or so he said.
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stuarth, totally agree with you. I hold the Whistler ski instructors in very high regard too. Being a ski instructor is a seasonal job for most instructors, so the whole debate about what equals the dictionary definition of a professional is a waste of time.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
I was very careful to say that I was not criticising canadian instructors. However, if your job is not full time and it doesn't pay your mortgage etc. you are not a pro in the job. You can do your part-time job in a professional manner - agreed, but if it's not your living I don't see how you can be considered "a professional".
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I have no further wish to partake in this particular debate, easiski. It's off topic, and to be frank, you appear to not have a very broad view of things.
If you want to change the world and the recompense that ski instructors get this side of the pond feel free to partake in this Epic thread.
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=27737&page=1
As for your defintion of professional it is my only full time job, and therefore my living.
Whilst the pay and conditions may not be ideal I don't take this out on my clients. They are afforded my full attention, ability and passion 150% of my time to give them the best instruction, guest and mountain experience available.
One thing emerging from this debate very clearly (for me anyway) is that one of the benfits of working under an umbrella of a corporation such as Intrawest is that together, we are all (different departments) commited to providing the best guest services and experiences, off and on the mountain.
Maybe, for me, that is what counts as professional behaviour.
Thats quite enough from me!
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easiski - I don't know what you earn but I suspect if you transplanted yourself to Whistler on your current earnings you would struggle to pay a mortgage on any reasonable size property (if you can I'm off to take my speed tests & become a French Instructor!) - would this suddenly mean you became less of an instructor?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I've done a couple of weeks skiing with the Ski Esprit and each time received the best instruction I've had in 10 weeks of total instruction - it quite literally p1ssed over anything I've had in Europe (particularly ESF). Both times I tipped the instructor well (as is customary in N America?) as did the rest of the group and I was happy to give the guy his due.
So although the Europeans may get a better package - do the Canadians/Americans get a better end package with the tips?
Cheers
BB
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Robbie,
When are you out for the second time exactly?
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Robbie, hey - so we'll overlap this year!!
Denise will be pleased!
Where are you staying? Got time to pop over one evening for a coffee before you go? PM me.
stuarth, you out there all season again??? Lucky man!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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paulhothersall, hmm that's only 3 smiley's per month. You can do better than that!!
To start with I suggest that you run a service for all :sh:'s and take them to the best bits that you've found so far!!!
And let them take you to any choice spots that *they* picked up - I know a lovely drop-in to a chute (sp?). Its up that stupidly steep poma on Whistler and under the ropes to the right. I know how to get there but not what it's called. Robbie?
You can team up with stuarth and practically eat and drink for free!!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| lbt wrote: |
You can team up with stuarth and practically eat and drink for free!! |
now that sounds like a plan
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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paulhothersall,
05 Jan flight? if it's the BA one I'll see you there!
If you're going to do a lot of lessons > CA$4000 worth, then get a Platinum Pass (Dave Murray and Extremely canadian are definitely worth doing every week for a start, you only have to do 5 of each to blow $4K otherwise - last season I did 14 DMs and 8 ECs )
lbt,
Where's the poma on Whistler? There's a steepish T-bar on blackcomb and a couple of normalish T-bars (one pair on Whistler, one on Blackcomb). Can find you lots of other steep chutes if you like, but you might be better off (safer!) with veeeight
I'm relying heavily on the Apres to keep me going food wise, due to last years extravagent season (ski in/out appartment (albeit temporary!), new skis, boots, 2 x jackets, etc) this year I shall be living like a student and stocking up on the Ski Esprit/Dave Murray Camp Pizza, and Extremely Canadian Nacho's/wings
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I am on the fly zoom from manchester and landing @ 13:10 local. It is probably about the same price as the BA when factoring in the excess baggage, but goes form a local airport.
i'm looking to blow a load of money, but on courses. Want to do the at least the CSCF level 2, and head towards a CSIA 3 if possible. I will need to remember how to ski moguls, and learn powder properly for that though. Racing is easy by comparison
The tiny amount I have left is for food and drink..............I'm staying in "trappers cabin"
http://www.seasonit.co.uk/trappers.htm which is here http://www.seasonit.co.uk/map.htm. Hopefully these guys are ok, and i haven't been to ripped off by a last minute season booking.
Regarding a work permit, I am about to send of for the BUNAC system, unless anyone knows of a "job offer" scheme?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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paulhothersall, i think you'll find it fairly tough to get a job sponsorship out there i'm afriad, but lots of Brits there on Bunacs.
HAve a blast! See you out there.
RObbie.
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FAQ
I was making a point (incidently there are some very good ski schools in both Val D and Courchevel)
) - do they do CSCF courses in Whistler?